Catfolk Alternate racial trait question.


Rules Questions


Ok so I am trying to understand why the choice was made (besides sounding like a numbers trade off) to replace Natural Hunter when choosing Cat Claws? I can kinda see from the benefit trade-up as getting the claws can save you a feat for certain builds that can use improved unarmed strike attacks as well as natural attacks in the same manner, but from my point of view it would be believed that those claws shouldn't affect Natural Hunter in any way (if anything probably help). How would this be logically validated?


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Catfolk Racial Trait "Natural Hunter"
Catfolk receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception, Stealth, and Survival checks.

Catfolk Alternative Racial Trait
Cat's Claws: Some catfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race, and can use them to make attacks. Catfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage. This racial trait replaces natural hunter.

You seem to be asking a design philosophy question rather than a rules question.

Perhaps, due to your character's superior claws, it was unnecessary to be quite as perceptive, stealthy and good at survival than your brethren.


Hmm...perhaps. Then again that reasoning from the stand point of their feral cousins doesn't hold weight. Sure Catfolk can be more human-like in their hunting ways and use ambushes and traps, but I would believe the more feral-like Catfolk are more likely to be the hunters in their tribes.

I wish I could say something positive here on what you said, sadly I just get more puzzled the more I dwell on it. I do however appreciate the response. There is a good chance that is probably how it was decided (without looking at the balancing part).


This doesn't really answer your question, but I believe there are feats to get the other choice for several of the catfolk alternate traits.


Java Man has it right. The feat actually gives the racial trait for claws so any issue OmegaDMM has is solved by feral-like catfolk picking it up and then having both traits.


I suppose the feat Catfolk Exemplar (Sharp Claws) does, from a mechanical point. Unfortunately this fails to further progress my original question.


OmegaDMM wrote:
I suppose the feat Catfolk Exemplar (Sharp Claws) does, from a mechanical point. Unfortunately this fails to further progress my original question.

Most likely, you've answered your own question. There doesn't NEED to be an in game logical reason for the swap. For instance it could be different breeds just don't have claws or those with claws aren't as smart or their senses are lesser.

If you REALLY need one, assume that those without claws where forced to compensate by becoming more skilled to compete with those that have an easier time with raw combat strength. I think though that you are looking for something that isn't there. There is nothing innate to having claws that increases your Perception, Stealth and Survival. Where you are looking and seeing 'hunter' skills, I'm seeing 'scout' skills that aren't linked with someone's combat skills.


graystone wrote:
If you REALLY need one, assume that those without claws where forced to compensate by becoming more skilled to compete with those that have an easier time with raw combat strength. I think though that you are looking for something that isn't there. There is nothing innate to having claws that increases your Perception, Stealth and Survival. Where you are looking and seeing 'hunter' skills, I'm seeing 'scout' skills that aren't linked with someone's combat skills.

This is more of what I was looking for and this does make a greater deal of sense. I hate trade-offs that don't appear to have validation, but your last sentence helps me in that regard. Usually others say the same as you where I see "things" that are not there, basically I what it is is me trying to fill a void due to a lack of connecting information. This is why I posted here in the first place to get a more official or otherwise better information to fill this gap.


It's always nice to know or at least perhaps puzzle out why some design decisions are made. But also be prepared to accept "because that's how the designers chose to make it work" as an answer in some instances. "Game balance" is not infrequently a justification (though often not the only justification).


OmegaDMM wrote:
graystone wrote:
If you REALLY need one, assume that those without claws where forced to compensate by becoming more skilled to compete with those that have an easier time with raw combat strength. I think though that you are looking for something that isn't there. There is nothing innate to having claws that increases your Perception, Stealth and Survival. Where you are looking and seeing 'hunter' skills, I'm seeing 'scout' skills that aren't linked with someone's combat skills.
This is more of what I was looking for and this does make a greater deal of sense. I hate trade-offs that don't appear to have validation, but your last sentence helps me in that regard. Usually others say the same as you where I see "things" that are not there, basically I what it is is me trying to fill a void due to a lack of connecting information. This is why I posted here in the first place to get a more official or otherwise better information to fill this gap.

Cool, Glad it helped. You might have better luck with this kind of question in the advice section as that one is geared for the "fill a void"/"fill this gap" type questions. The normal reply in the rules question section is the facts, or the opposite of those gaps/void, as the rules don't care about the why but the how.


graystone wrote:
OmegaDMM wrote:
graystone wrote:
If you REALLY need one, assume that those without claws where forced to compensate by becoming more skilled to compete with those that have an easier time with raw combat strength. I think though that you are looking for something that isn't there. There is nothing innate to having claws that increases your Perception, Stealth and Survival. Where you are looking and seeing 'hunter' skills, I'm seeing 'scout' skills that aren't linked with someone's combat skills.
This is more of what I was looking for and this does make a greater deal of sense. I hate trade-offs that don't appear to have validation, but your last sentence helps me in that regard. Usually others say the same as you where I see "things" that are not there, basically I what it is is me trying to fill a void due to a lack of connecting information. This is why I posted here in the first place to get a more official or otherwise better information to fill this gap.
Cool, Glad it helped. You might have better luck with this kind of question in the advice section as that one is geared for the "fill a void"/"fill this gap" type questions. The normal reply in the rules question section is the facts, or the opposite of those gaps/void, as the rules don't care about the why but the how.

Understood. I honestly wasn't sure where to post originally so yeah that will help clear a few things up for me. Thank you.

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