Are Incorporeal Creatures Invisible?


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sorry if this has been answered already but I was unable to find it here.

According to the Core rule book on page 564, "Ethereal creatures (such as ghosts from the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) are invisible. Since ethereal creatures are not materially present, Perception checks, scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help locate them. Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures, but Perception checks can help."

However, pages 144-145 of the Bestiary is the entry for a ghost which doesn't mention anything about it being ethereal or invisible. None of the other incorporeal creatures mention invisibility either. On page 312 of the Bestiary, it has a brief description of the subtype Incorporeal which also doesn't mention invisibility. It only mentions how to damage it. So I looked at page 301 of the Bestiary where it describes the ability Incorporeal and again there is no mention of it being, or having the ability to become, invisible.

So I guess my real question is, is the Core rule book wrong, or was there just an oversight when printing the Bestiary? If neither of these are the case, please help me understand what is going on with this. I am trying to become a better GM and understanding in-depth rulings like this will go a long way I think.

Thanks


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The Core Rulebook is correct regarding ethereal creatures but incorrect in that it provides ghosts as an example of one.
Back in 3.5 incorporeal creatures (such as ghosts) were often ethereal but this is no longer the case. They decided to separate incorporeal from ethereal.

My guess is that that section of the CRB was written before they decided to change how incorporeal creatures were designed.


I would use the incorporeal definition from the Universal Monster Rules, which says nothing about incorporeal creatures being invisible.

UMR wrote:

Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature's Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Perception checks if it doesn't wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.

Format: incorporeal; Location: Defensive Abilities.


sometimes the books use a wide brush and wax poetic. I'd use other sources (as above) to clarify what's going on.

Ethereal creatures technically aren't invisible, they are on another plane of existence, so to be correct they aren't there (on the material plane) thus not visible. That's different than invisibility. That's why the perception checks etc don't help. Planes are separate and being on one excludes you from interactions on another.
Some creatures that go ethereal can sense into the material plane from the ethereal plane. Pay attention to the monster descriptions as that's where that information will be.

Incorporeal is a state/condition. You can be incorporeal on the prime or ethereal. Being incorporeal does not grant the creature interplanar travel. It does let the creature pass through solid objects. Thematically incorporeal creatures look hazy or misty but it's not required. Some incorporeal creature can sense other creatures via blindsense, blindsight, life sense and such but you have to remember that solid objects generally stop line of effect.

Invisible is a state/condition. Creatures that are invisible are just not sensed by normal visual abilities. They do leave traces and interact with the environment thus creatures can use perception, logic, and other senses to detect an invisible creature.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thanks for the information. I think after reading everyone's reply I will just ignore that particular paragraph in the CRB. Bestiary stats and descriptions will be all I use when determining the abilities of my monsters and use the CRB to determine how things not described in the Bestiary work.


Going from plane to plane is an either or situation with no overlap, at least in Pathfinder. No percentage miss chance, for anything,except for cover, maybe. It confuses me still.

Edit, it turns out cover just adds to ac and to some saves.

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