I'm working on a monk build and was wanting to use Dragon style to get 1.5x str to dmg for unarmed strikes. I stumbled across a thread some time ago were people seems to be coming to the conclusion that substituted stat dmg act like the relevant stat unless noted otherwise. I.E. Swapping Dex for STR still provides 1.5 dex for 2 handing.
In this case I'm seeking to replace STR with DEX for dmg rolls, but still get the 1.5 dmg from my style. Dooes this work?
Requirement: This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons usable with Weapon Finesse.
Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with an agile weapon in place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.
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This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
Normal: You cannot charge or run through difficult terrain, and you cannot charge through a square that contains an ally. With an unarmed strike, you usually add your Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, Stunning Fist, Acrobatics 5 ranks.
Benefit: While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks.
When you score a critical hit or a successful Stunning Fist attempt against an opponent while using this style, that opponent is also shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + your Strength bonus.
Special: Taking this feat allows you to qualify for the Elemental Fist feat even if you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites. If you do not meet that feat’s prerequisites, you must choose one of the damage types that feat offers, and you can use only that damage type with your Elemental Fist attacks until you meet the feat’s normal prerequisites. A monk with this feat can use Elemental Fist as if he were a monk of the four winds.
nope.
rogues get 1.5 dex if two-handed. Other forms of getting dex to damage don't. Even rogues don't get 1.5 dex using dragon style.
nope.
rogues get 1.5 dex if two-handed. Other forms of getting dex to damage don't. Even rogues don't get 1.5 dex using dragon style.
I'm not saying your wrong but I'm after some kind of a rules source or something to confirm this. Were does it come from saying only rogues get 1.5 dex?
Chess has the right answer, but not the precise reason for it.
The rogue FAQ isn't the reason they can get 1.5 times Dexterity, it simply clarifies that they do.
The actual reason they get it is because they are the only such instance (outside Mythic, which is not relevant in most games) of gaining it without requiring the weapon be in one hand (as the Grace feats do) or specifically excluding two handed bonuses (as the Agile enchantment does).
Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity alter how you apply your Strength bonus to your attacks, but if you are using an Agile AoMF, you aren't applying your Strength bonus at all, so effects that alter how much of it you use are not applicable.
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The rogue FAQ also says this: "However, any other effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls."
So, it would seem the intention is for dragon style and dex to damage to not stack.
It says that "a two-handed weapon gains 1.5x Dex to damage", but a one-handed wielded in two hands isn't a two-handed weapon so, according to that FAQ, you wouldn't get 1.5x Dex to damage using a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands as it would fall under the "other abilities" exception.
I could see how someone could read it that way, but we aren't usually intended to read the rules and rulings that pedantically. I feel pretty sure that the design team would be ok with the rogue getting the 1.5x for two-handing a one handed weapon. But it's actually a really short list of one handed finesse weapons that can be used in two hands. The whip is the only thing I can think of.
It says that "a two-handed weapon gains 1.5x Dex to damage", but a one-handed wielded in two hands isn't a two-handed weapon so, according to that FAQ, you wouldn't get 1.5x Dex to damage using a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands as it would fall under the "other abilities" exception.I could see how someone could read it that way, but we aren't usually intended to read the rules and rulings that pedantically. I feel pretty sure that the design team would be ok with the rogue getting the 1.5x for two-handing a one handed weapon. But it's actually a really short list of one handed finesse weapons that can be used in two hands. The whip is the only thing I can think of.
And that one won't work.
You can't wield a whip in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier to damage rolls.
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And that one won't work.You can't wield a whip in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier to damage rolls.
Hmm. I could have sworn it didn't have a line like that. Was that errated in?
Edit: I see now, that's only in the Ultimate Equipment and not in the CRB. The UE was republished most recently, so it takes precedence. I wonder if they will remember to change that in the CRB when it gets republished.
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It says that "a two-handed weapon gains 1.5x Dex to damage", but a one-handed wielded in two hands isn't a two-handed weapon so, according to that FAQ, you wouldn't get 1.5x Dex to damage using a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands as it would fall under the "other abilities" exception.I could see how someone could read it that way, but we aren't usually intended to read the rules and rulings that pedantically. I feel pretty sure that the design team would be ok with the rogue getting the 1.5x for two-handing a one handed weapon. But it's actually a really short list of one handed finesse weapons that can be used in two hands. The whip is the only thing I can think of.
Aldori dueling sword.