The latter; the FAQ on damage dice says that any increase counts as an "effective size increase," and those don't stack.
<shrug> Anything that makes your damage die go up looks like similar language to me. Obviously our mileage varies.
Anyone else want to weigh in?
This hasn't been brought up in this thread yet, but I also want to add that spiked shields count as an "effective size increase" and won't stack with bashing and in this case nor would it stack with Focused Weapon.
Yes, but: Sacred Weapon is not a size increase in any way. It's a set amount of dice. I can find no FAQ stating that all damage dice increases are "size increases". I can only find:
“deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar languageAs I'm reading this, Sacred Weapon is not "similar language" and it should stack with both enlarge person and bashing shield.
EDITED
The warpriest's sacred weapon says:
The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this decision must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.)
A bashing heavy shield's new base damage would be 1d8 (or a spiked heavy shield's base damage would be 1d6) because it's an effective size increase. Sacred Weapon or Focused Weapon damage dice for the weapon isn't a new base damage or a modification of the base damage, but instead is a replacement to the weapon's base damage.
Sacred Weapon/Focused Weapon damage dice is compared against the bashing heavy shield's 1d8 base damage, and the warpriest/fighter can decide to take either one, but if bashing heavy shield's base damage of 1d8 exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.
And exactly why can't a Sacred Weapon or Focused Weapon at 1d8 be increased with 'bashing'? Sacred Weapon damage can be changed because of size (they even provide a table for small and large).
Sacred weapon can be increased with size when the warpriest changes with size. Or maybe even just the actual weapon is smaller or larger. Like a medium warpriest with a large sized heavy shield.
But bashing and/spiked shields are effective size changes to the weapon itself and modifies the base damage.
A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.
Sacred weapon/Focused weapon has their own dice progression as an optional replacement for the base damage. No where do state they replace the base damage of the weapon entirely and would benefit from effects applied to it.
The bashing heavy shield does 1d8 damage. Warpriest class feature of sacred weapon does 2d6 damage. Warpriest picks one or the other. Bashing enchantment didn't affect the warpriest's class feature.
EDIT: Sacred Weapon does increase the damage (if it exceeds the base damage) but it doesn't do so in size increments and effective size simulation (the "similar language" mentioned in the FAQ).
Sacred Weapon doesn't say it increases the damage, if it exceeds the base damage, it replaces the use of damage dice.
The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage
Yea bashing doesn't refer to base damage, Sacred Weapon does though.
Sacred weapon has the wording, "The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this decision must be declared before the attack roll is made."
That means that if the warpriest picks his own sacred weapon damage die, he chose not to use the actual damage of the shield, and sacred weapon damage doesn't simply become the new shield damage die. It remains its own thing because one actively has to choose to use it over the base damage.
A bashing shield only works on shield damage dice, it's an effective size change to the weapon and the damage dice goes up two size categories, so a heavy shield's base damage would be 1d8. Sacred weapon has the choice of using that base damage, or its own class feature-specified table of damage dice.
Another example, a warpriest has an impact greatsword, its damage dice is 3d6. A warpriest doesn't really get to benefit from sacred weapon at all since impact modifies the weapon's damage dice, and sacred weapon wouldn't benefit from impact because the warpriest either picks his sacred weapon damage or the base damage dice of the weapon (3d6) and its damage dice doesn't get bigger than 3d6.
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Warpriest Sacred Weapon damage (and Monk Unarmed Strike damage) are the equivalent of the normal damage of a weapon.
They can thus be increased or decreased by both actual and effective size changes... cast enlarge person on the Warpriest and he grows from Medium to Large size and his sacred weapon damage increases accordingly. The small and large results are actually listed, but should line up with the size increase rules in all cases.
If that weapon is a shield with the Bashing enchantment (or shield spikes) then that is an effective size increase, which stacks with the actual size increase, and further boosts his damage.
Sacred Weapon damage is thus similar to using a weapon intended for a different size creature... e.g. a medium sized Titan Mauler can use a Greatsword intended for a large creature. That increases the damage of the base weapon, just as Sacred Weapon does, and still allows actual and effective size increases to further boost the damage.
Warpriest Sacred Weapon damage (and Monk Unarmed Strike damage) are the equivalent of the normal damage of a weapon.
They can thus be increased or decreased by both actual and effective size changes... cast enlarge person on the Warpriest and he grows from Medium to Large size and his sacred weapon damage increases accordingly. The small and large results are actually listed, but should line up with the size increase rules in all cases.
If that weapon is a shield with the Bashing enchantment (or shield spikes) then that is an effective size increase, which stacks with the actual size increase, and further boosts his damage.
Sacred Weapon damage is thus similar to using a weapon intended for a different size creature... e.g. a medium sized Titan Mauler can use a Greatsword intended for a large creature. That increases the damage of the base weapon, just as Sacred Weapon does, and still allows actual and effective size increases to further boost the damage.
Monk unarmed strike damage is the equivalent of a normal damage for a weapon, because the monk's unarmed strike entry specifically says so.
Warpriest's sacred weapon specifically says the warpriest chooses between using the normal weapon damage or the sacred weapon damage, so those two aren't equivalent.
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But they're equivalent in that they change the original damage dice into something different, and aren't necessarily an effective or actual size bonus.
Also, I only glossed over the thread, but please tell me no one is saying that Bashing and Shield Spikes stack...
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Monk unarmed strike damage is the equivalent of a normal damage for a weapon, because the monk's unarmed strike entry specifically says so.
Warpriest's sacred weapon specifically says the warpriest chooses between using the normal weapon damage or the sacred weapon damage, so those two aren't equivalent.
In the sense that both are the 'base damage' which will be multiplied on a critical, increased by Vital Strike, adjusted for actual and effective size changes, et cetera... yes they ARE equivalent.
Indeed, about the only way in which they are not equivalent is that the actual amount of damage will most often be different.
I'm not sure what the hubbub is here. This is actually a very simple question, used to have lots of confusion, and was given a very concise answer.
What does the warpriest's sacred weapon class feature do? It replaces your weapon's damage with a different set of damage dice, which explicitely states that it can be further adjusted by the warpriest's size.
Therefore, as per the OP's level 5 example, his shield would become 1d8. Because you are not a small creature, one size category is worth two steps on the linked chart, so two effective size categories is worth 4 steps down the chart, causing that 1d8 to go up to 3d6.
You can even take this further. Because "bashing" is an "effective" size change, you can tack on "enlarge person" to that and you then gain an "actual" size change on top of that. This will push your 3d6 another two steps to hit 4d6. All at level 5. Note that hitting level 10 makes you start at 1d10, which goes to 3d8 for bashing, and then 4d8 for enlarge person.
The warpriest can decide to use the weapon's base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this decision must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon's base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.)
This simply exists so that a warpriest at level 1 with a longsword doesn't deal less damage. A warpriest /can/ decide to use the weapon's base damage, but that doesn't mean he has to. The fact that there are size modifer charts for the warpriest's sacred weapon damage proves that size modifers are applied after base weapon damage.
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Also, I only glossed over the thread, but please tell me no one is saying that Bashing and Shield Spikes stack...
Not that I can tell.
As I read it, Protoman and Fuzzy-Wuzzy are essentially arguing that Sacred Weapon damage constitutes an 'effective size increase' and thus does not stack with bashing and other effective size increases.
I don't buy that. Among other problems with it, Sacred Weapon damage is the same regardless of the weapon used... both a 1d4 dagger and a 1d10 greatsword do 2d6 damage in the hands of a medium sized Warpriest. The new damage doesn't follow size increase rules at all. Rather, it is a completely different system... and thus both actual and effective size increases can be applied to it.
I'm not arguing that it's a size increase, but that the any effective size increases apply to the weapon itself; and sacred weapon class feature gives players option of using the modified damage of the weapon or the sacred weapon damage which doesn't benefit from effective size increases of impact/bashing because they specifically affected the original weapon damage.
Upon further research into the subject, I've learned that this is an often posed question that is always debated and rarely, if ever, leads to consensus. I've decided to write up a new post as a FAQ request. If you all may, please head over and hit the FAQ button, as I believe that it really is asked frequently enough.