Splash Damage on Large Creatures

[Sphen]

If a creature takes up more than one square, can it be affected by the direct hit of a grenade weapon as well as the splash damage? This applies specifically to an Alchemist's bombs.

[Tom Baumbach]

No, a target is either directly hit or hit by splash damage, but not both.

[Kalyth]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

No, a target is either directly hit or hit by splash damage, but not both.

Dont have the book right now but how does splash damage work if the primary target is large or bigger? Is it a 5ft radius around the target? Or a 5ft radius around a square the target occupies?

[Tom Baumbach]

I'll use a Large creature as the example.

According to the core rulebook, you choose to either target a creature or an intersection (and you can't target an intersection that is completely covered by a creature, such as the "center" intersection of a Large creature). Useful terms for these targeting options are "direct hit" or "intersection."

If you score a direct hit, the target takes the damage of the splash weapon and all squares adjacent to that target take splash damage. This is a quirk of the rules that causes *more* splash damage to occur the larger the target is. A direct hit against a Medium target splashes eight squares, a direct hit against a Large target splashes 12 squares.

When I run a table direct hits works differently:

When attempting to score a direct hit, you choose the square you are aiming at. For creatures that occupy more than one square, squares the creature occupies block line of effect to other squares the creature occupies. For example, you cannot target the "back" two squares of a Large creature, you have to target one of the two squares closest to your character. (Under normal, level circumstances; diagonals and height change things, but in an obvious way.)

Then only those squares that are actually adjacent to the square that was targeted are subject to splash damage. Creatures that occupy more than one square take splash damage when targeted with a direct hit (if applicable), but only once, regardless of how many additional squares qualify for splash damage.

[Kalyth]

Tom Baumbach wrote:

I'll use a Large creature as the example.

According to the core rulebook, you choose to either target a creature or an intersection (and you can't target an intersection that is completely covered by a creature, such as the "center" intersection of a Large creature). Useful terms for these targeting options are "direct hit" or "intersection."

If you score a direct hit, the target takes the damage of the splash weapon and all squares adjacent to that target take splash damage. This is a quirk of the rules that causes *more* splash damage to occur the larger the target is. A direct hit against a Medium target splashes eight squares, a direct hit against a Large target splashes 12 squares.

** spoiler omitted **

Good house rules I think I will use them.

[Riain]

A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as sneak attack).

The above is from the Advanced Player's Handbook in the PRD.

Key point from this:

If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square.

Since it is not a new creature, it would not be affected by splash damage IMO. I just started looking at Alchemist due to a player (I'm a new GM, and I do mean NEW [only 2 scenarios in so far]) wanting to join as an alchemist. I look forward to the challenges and ideas he comes up with.

[Anguish]

I think the best way of looking at the question is this:

There is a full effect and a lesser effect. If a creature is directly targeted, it takes the full effect. Nearby creatures take the lesser effect.

A Large (or larger) creature may be within the area of some splash damage, but it's better to think: the creature took the full damage. Splash doesn't apply to it because the lesser (splash) effect is already included in the full effect.

[Wheldrake]

+1 for Anguish.

Allowing both direct hit and splash damage would make alchemists even more powerful than they already are. They are a very strong class, perhaps not as strong as 7+ level wizards, but still quite strong. They don't need additional ways to squeeze more damage out of their bombs.

[GinoA]

Riain wrote:

...

BTW, this text is from the Core Rulebook.

Core Rulebook wrote:

If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square.

[Sah]

In my group we used to run it that larger creatures would take each instance of splash damage, but realized that was a bad idea when our goblin alchemist won initiative vs Black Magga in Rise of the Runelords and killed the cr 15 creature in one attack sequence.