Gestalt Character Advise


Advice

Silver Crusade

I'm playing in a very small group and the GM is running a Gestalt game where everyone is an unchained monk/whatever. Based on the theme and the story of the game, it felt appropriate for me to play a paladin. I'm also playing a theme based race from this homebrew world that doesn't give me any bonus starting feats.

I'm trying to build/plan my character so that I can be an effective front line melee while still embracing the theme of being a no armor monk. I'm also looking at going Sentinel (custom deity, basically Iomeade but with unarmed strike)

I'm looking for some advise on how to build a character that will be able to fill my role (front line melee) effectively. I have pretty great stats (except my INT blows), so I should qualify for most feats.

Any thoughts on how I could be more efficient?

1) Jabbing Style
1) Dodge (monk bonus)
2) Mobility (monk bonus)
3) Weapon Focus: Fist
4) Ki Power: Qinggog Power (Barkskin)
5) Deific Obedience
5) Style Strike: Defensive Spin
6) Improved Trip
6) Ki Power: Light Steps
7) Power Attack (sentinel bonus feat)
7) Jabbing Dancer
8) Ki Power: Furious Defense
9) Jabbing Master
9) Style Strike: Flying Kick
10) Medusa's Wrath (monk bonus)
10) Ki Power: Elementail Fury
11) Hammer the Gap

???

I typically don't plan much past 12th level as most games start to fall apart, but since this time around we're a much smaller group (3 players and a GM) it seems like we could go much closer to 20.

I am pretty locked into just playing the unchained monk as it's the theme based given that everyone has in common, and on the paladin side I'm limited to taking either paladin levels or sentinel levels. My plan was to start taking them at 6th level and finish that before going back to paladin levels.

Given my limited number of feats, I'm looking for some advise on what I can do better. I should also note that the style of the GM I'm gaming with doesn't really allow for us to just 'buy' magic items at given levels. We typically just have to use what we are given, so I generally try to build my characters so as to not rely too much on magic items. - I want the character to be cool without the magic items defining him.

Thanks!


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Go for Iroran Paladin (curiously, the rules don't require you to be an Irori worshipper).

You'd get to add CHA+WIS+DEX to your AC, which should make you quite a capable tank.

I'd avoid Trip for Grapple. Grappling a caster is game over for them - while trip only works against humanoids of a certain size.

Defensive Spin is not necessary to get good AC.

Hammer the Gap is super MEH. If you want damage, Improved Critical is your go to.

Rest looks good.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:

Go for Iroran Paladin (curiously, the rules don't require you to be an Irori worshipper).

You'd get to add CHA+WIS+DEX to your AC, which should make you quite a capable tank.

I'd avoid Trip for Grapple. Grappling a caster is game over for them - while trip only works against humanoids of a certain size.

Defensive Spin is not necessary to get good AC.

Hammer the Gap is super MEH. If you want damage, Improved Critical is your go to.

Rest looks good.

Getting CHA to AC will cost you though, as that archetype has a much weaker (albeit universally applicable) smite ability,and the normal Paladin gets CHA to AC when smiting anyway. Given the advantages of offense over defense, and how hard a paladin is to put down already...

How would prestige classes factor into your game? The Champion of Irori has some neat abilities if you can get around the Still Mind hurdle on an Unchained Monk.

Silver Crusade

Thanks, I'll check out both of those. We can play approved prestige classes so long as we can qualify for them as if we were a single class.


You should always take flying kick as your first style strike.

I'm not sure personal trial is really weaker than smite evil. It boosts damage less, but it also boosts attack, saves, and AC. Since the OP can't rely on having a cloak of resistance he won't have saves so high as to make that redundant against enemies worth smiting.

I wouldn't leave paladin for sentinel. Therefore skip deific obedience and take power attack there instead of the sentinel bonus feat you aren't getting.

Champion of Irori probably won't work well. It's a hybrid PrC so you'd lose gestalt on those levels and it's not better than being a gestalt paladin monk. And if you don't lose gestalt you'd be locked into pairing it with monk anyways and after discounting everything that would just overlap it's probably not better than paladin.

Shadow Lodge

I'm pretty meh on Monk//Iroran Paladin.

Personal Trial + AC bonus makes you defensively better off than the Monk//Vanilla Paladin (with the saves bonus and getting Cha to AC all the time plus an extra bonus from Trial) but offensively weaker since Smite gives you a better bonus both to attacks (by a little, mostly at lower levels) and to damage (by a lot). Plus Personal Trial doesn't bypass DR unless you spend a ki point each round. Given that the Monk//Paladin is already a defensively strong combo, and that the offensive bonus is super useful with flurry, I would personally prefer Smite - unless you expect to fight an unusually low number of evil enemies. Which is possible in a martial arts themed game with competitive dueling.

Aura of Excellence and Perfection are weaker than Aura of Courage and Aura of Justice. Sense Perfection is usually less useful than Detect Evil, though YMMV in a theme campaign.

The Unarmed Strike is a duplicate/waste.

I think as written you'd end up with two separate ki pools, which is fine, but two ki pools isn't twice as useful as one ki pool.

What does the rest of the party look like, and what exactly are your stats?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

What weirdo said.

It does sound like a cool game though. Kind of suprised it's unchained Monk, as normal monk with archetypes would allow for more character variety.


A warrior of holy light paladin has some great use here just because that would allow you to tank by healing with many more lay of hands on yourself. If you insert fey foundling as a level one feat that would be all you need.


Captain Morgan wrote:

What weirdo said.

It does sound like a cool game though. Kind of suprised it's unchained Monk, as normal monk with archetypes would allow for more character variety.

Agreed on surprise. Everyone gets full BAB and two good saves (tho normal monk would give all three). And unless there's more to the homebrew you're seeing few druids and no barbarians ... *puts on sad barbarian face*

Silver Crusade

Atarlost wrote:


...

I wouldn't leave paladin for sentinel. Therefore skip deific obedience and take power attack there instead of the sentinel bonus feat you aren't getting.

...

Why wouldn't you go sentinel? You gain 2 feats, one of which can be weapon specialization, and the boons are really nice. (Bull's Str, Better Smite Evil, etc).

On the paladin side, I'm already a Warrior of Holy Light archtype so it seems like it would stack well.

To answer some other questions, my stats are: (I am unable to change them around)

Str 18
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 18
Cha 15

Our party is looking like a Witch, Inquisitor, Oracle, and myself. All of us are Monk/whatever Gestalt.

I don't dislike the paladin side but I really don't feel like it was the best choice for a gestalt monk. Druid, may of been better. On the other hand, the role-playing will be fun. :)

For stat rolling, we got 4d6 drop the lowest and reroll 1's to make characters. On any stat, we could remove a dice and put it in a different area to roll more dice, but still take the best 3. Had to roll at least 3 dice for a stat. I ended up removed a dice from Int and putting it into Str, and moved a dice from Con into Wisdom - which didn't turn out too bad. The 8 sucks but I'll manage.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you're allowed to use the vigilante class, the zealot archetype might be worth looking at instead of paladin... It has a somewhat toned down smite but also a bunch of inquisitor stuff, and it has 6 skill points per level to help offset that Int. Depending on the feel and play style you're looking for it might not be a good fit, but it can't hurt to look at it?

Also, if you're open to considering something completely different... You have good stats for a reachzilla caster. If you took empyreal sorcerer for your second class, you could use a double kama (reach monk weapon) for AoOs and still have your turn for casting (or flurrying). Definitely lacks the survivability of a pally but it would be a potent build if you want any casting. Just a thought after I saw your stats.


Jafakur wrote:
Atarlost wrote:


...

I wouldn't leave paladin for sentinel. Therefore skip deific obedience and take power attack there instead of the sentinel bonus feat you aren't getting.

...

Why wouldn't you go sentinel? You gain 2 feats, one of which can be weapon specialization, and the boons are really nice. (Bull's Str, Better Smite Evil, etc).

Paladin has lots of scaling abilities. Sentinel does not progress them. If you're running with unchained monk you lose your will save. Weapon Specialization is a dubious feat and you have to pay two feat taxes to get into Sentinel so you're not really getting bonus feats and your important feats are severely delayed. You're not even taking weapon specialization in your feat plan anyways.

You should not be playing a non-casting paladin unless casting classes are banned. Especially not if you have no magic mart. Divine Favor covereth up a multitude of crappy weapons.

The divine boons you mentioned aren't so great either. You can get your first boon at level 12. Divine Favor surpasses Bull's Strength at CL 6, which you get at level 9. Level 7 if you boost caster level with a trait. As a proper non-sucky archetype paladin you can cast Bull's Strength itself at level 7 if you have at least 14 charisma, or level if you don't. Better Smite is offset by losing smite. By going into Sentinel you lose 1 smite damage for every sentinel level and are stuck at 2 per day. If these are your examples of good boons you need to look closer at what you're losing.

Shadow Lodge

Qaianna wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
It does sound like a cool game though. Kind of suprised it's unchained Monk, as normal monk with archetypes would allow for more character variety.
Agreed on surprise. Everyone gets full BAB and two good saves (tho normal monk would give all three). And unless there's more to the homebrew you're seeing few druids and no barbarians ... *puts on sad barbarian face*

Yeah, I'd put unchained monk on the table, but also allow core monk & associated archetypes for variety.

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