Eidolon - Placement of their glowing rune


Rules Questions


So, I am new to pathfinder and I wanted to try out the Summoner class.
To get a better a better picture at what I can and can't do, I searched these boards for answers when d20pfsrd wasn't completely clear on stuff (Like if you could combine the Improv. Nat. Attack feat and evo to get 1d8 medium claws).
Most of those questions had enough threads/reactons to arrive at an answer.

But one thing I couldn't find is why everyone assumes that the glowing rune is always on the eidolon's forehead.

d20pfrsd wrote:
The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.
d20pfrsd wrote:
The eidolon also bears a glowing rune [somehwere on their body] that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.

To me they bear the exact same meaning, but the latter is more clear and I could put it on my eidolon's left thigh.

I am pondering this because my eidolon is a bipedal wolf(wo)man and having the rune on her head just feels odd.

Any form of Clarification would be awesome.


As long as the rune is clearly visible, I don't think it's an issue.

The rules don't precisely cover this, but the whole idea is to make sure that eidolons appear otherworldly.


Thanks for the fast reply.

Yeah, I figured as much, but wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something.
And she (the eidolon) has feathers growing from her neck and elbows which have faintly glowing blue lines on them and will get Wings made of the same feathers along the line,
so I'm pretty sure she'll look otherworldly even if she covered up her rune with a pair of pants.


As long as it doesn't look like a regular animal, you're fine.
And yes, your eidolon can has the glowing rune as a tramp stamp if you like.
Unless you abuse it, you shouldn't worry to much about that glowing rune (I actually completly ignore that feature for the summoner I'm currently playing). It's more flavor than anything else, really.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

In fact it is not more flavor than anything else. It provides a clear link with the Summoner themselves which foes can extrapolate as a 'weak point'.
This is a balance mechanism.


It also serves as a sign to enemies who know what an eidolon is, so they can best decide how fo target stuff.


Indeed, it serves as a tell about the creature.

Mostly, that if you kill the squishy guy behind him the creature will go too.


I don't think enemies should actually know what an eidolon is unless the suceed on a Knowledge (planes) check. I consider knowledge of class mechanics metagaming. What, do they teach "class features and how to exploit them 101" at the Evil NPC College?

Since the thing is on the forehead, it's probably under the Headband of Alluring Charisma, anyway. Or you just cover it with hair. Or concealer (surely they have beauty products in Golarion). It is, after all, explicitly noted that you can conceal if with mundane means. What is not noted is that the thing illuminates you, draws attention to you or is particular big.

Sorry, I don't see any mechanical impact.


Yes you can hide it, yes many folks don't know what it means. But if younare fighting Sauron, and he can see them, he will tell his minions to target the summoner.


Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:

In fact it is not more flavor than anything else. It provides a clear link with the Summoner themselves which foes can extrapolate as a 'weak point'.

This is a balance mechanism.
Summoner wrote:
While this rune can be hidden through mundane means

Armor comes standard with a helmet. Rune = hidden.


If I'm fighting Sauron, I'll just wait for Isildur to cut off his ring.

On a more serious note, I don't have a problem with a BBEG targetting the Summoner instead of the Eidolon, presuming he has some information (e.g. from scrying or spying minions) that there is a vital connection between Summoner and Eidolon. "Hm, that guy and that weird looking creature i've never seen before have the same tattoo. Well, time to ignore the creature hitting me with 5 attacks every round and focus on the guy standing in the back!"
Well, the first time a GM would pull this on my, (and I couldn't convince him to stop metagaming), I'd hide my own Rune with for instance a helmet, and cast Arcane Mark in the exact same shape onto the party tank's forehead. Bam, instant aggro for the tank, because now the enemies have to believe that he's the summoner.
Your move?


TimePulse wrote:

So, I am new to pathfinder and I wanted to try out the Summoner class.

To get a better a better picture at what I can and can't do, I searched these boards for answers when d20pfsrd wasn't completely clear on stuff (Like if you could combine the Improv. Nat. Attack feat and evo to get 1d8 medium claws).
Most of those questions had enough threads/reactons to arrive at an answer.

But one thing I couldn't find is why everyone assumes that the glowing rune is always on the eidolon's forehead.

d20pfrsd wrote:
The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.
d20pfrsd wrote:
The eidolon also bears a glowing rune [somehwere on their body] that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.

To me they bear the exact same meaning, but the latter is more clear and I could put it on my eidolon's left thigh.

I am pondering this because my eidolon is a bipedal wolf(wo)man and having the rune on her head just feels odd.

Any form of Clarification would be awesome.

PRD(official Pathfinder site) wrote:
The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner's forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.


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Derklord wrote:

If I'm fighting Sauron, I'll just wait for Isildur to cut off his ring.

On a more serious note, I don't have a problem with a BBEG targetting the Summoner instead of the Eidolon, presuming he has some information (e.g. from scrying or spying minions) that there is a vital connection between Summoner and Eidolon. "Hm, that guy and that weird looking creature i've never seen before have the same tattoo. Well, time to ignore the creature hitting me with 5 attacks every round and focus on the guy standing in the back!"
Well, the first time a GM would pull this on my, (and I couldn't convince him to stop metagaming), I'd hide my own Rune with for instance a helmet, and cast Arcane Mark in the exact same shape onto the party tank's forehead. Bam, instant aggro for the tank, because now the enemies have to believe that he's the summoner.
Your move?

There's no reason that NPC's who are of adventurer classes can't pull off the same tricks as PC's do. They get to make Knowledge checks too!


I would think that hiding your rune, and your eidolon's would be a standard, smart move, to prevent just these types of problems. The same thing as clerics carrying spare holy symbols and what not.


The rules say you can hide the rune using mundane methods so even wearing a mask would work. As far as anyone would know it could just be a magical item or just something the creature wants to wear.


NPCs make knowledge checks? NEVER!

NPCs only need to make a knowledge planes check (DC is uncertain since there isn't a DC to identify things that grow in levels like humanoid characters) to know an Eidolon is an Eidolon. After the check is made, they then need to determine who is the most likely candidate to be the summoner.

"I dunno, is it the big beefy guy with sword and full plate, or is the tiny guy hiding in the back with light armor and flailing his hands about?"


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

When I was playing a summoner, both the summoner and the eidolon wore desert style head wraps that covered their foreheads, even though the rest of their outfits were more Viking-like. If that was not enough of a giveaway, the fact that one member of the party was doing little in combat besides casting buff spells on the party's combat monster should have made the connection obvious. I was actually surprised that the summoner was not targeted very often.


Snowlilly wrote:
Armor comes standard with a helmet. Rune = hidden.

I wouldn't consider that automatic. Maybe some stray lines peak out. Maybe the glow is visible like a flashlight under a blanket.

Overall, just do a disguise check, which is the skill that allows you to handle such concerns. Summoners are cha based, and eidolons can get a +8 to the skill. No particular reason not to be able to disguise, although you can certainly choose not to invest in it. Still, might as well do an untrained check.

Claxon wrote:

NPCs make knowledge checks? NEVER!

NPCs only need to make a knowledge planes check (DC is uncertain since there isn't a DC to identify things that grow in levels like humanoid characters) to know an Eidolon is an Eidolon. After the check is made, they then need to determine who is the most likely candidate to be the summoner.

"I dunno, is it the big beefy guy with sword and full plate, or is the tiny guy hiding in the back with light armor and flailing his hands about?"

Disguise could pose an impediment to that. Disguise can cover looking like a different race, so the eidolon could pretend to be more mundane, and the enemy would have to pass both a perception and knowledge check to notice it is an eidolon.

And since you are investing an entire skill for this purpose... then fair trade. You paid the price to remove the disadvantage of painting targets. And even then, it only makes it difficult for it to come up, not impossible.


lemeres wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Armor comes standard with a helmet. Rune = hidden.
I wouldn't consider that automatic. Maybe some stray lines peak out. Maybe the glow is visible like a flashlight under a blanket.

The rules don't say it covers your whole forehead, therefor it doesn't. The rules don't say the rune provides any illumination, therefor it doesn't. If the rune is actually visible glowing, that would just make it vitally important to cover it up (otherwise you play pincushion every time you step into a dark area because every single enemy could just fire at the rune). Unless you can use the rune as a torch, a simple mundane headband must be enough to cover it up. Seriously, take a headband, take a moderate flashlight or an actual glowstick, and try to cover the light. It works. You don't need any fancy stuff.

Yes, I know that Summoner is really strong. But sticking mechanical penalties onto flavor stuff is not the way to tone it down!


Derklord wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Armor comes standard with a helmet. Rune = hidden.
I wouldn't consider that automatic. Maybe some stray lines peak out. Maybe the glow is visible like a flashlight under a blanket.

The rules don't say it covers your whole forehead, therefor it doesn't. The rules don't say the rune provides any illumination, therefor it doesn't. If the rune is actually visible glowing, that would just make it vitally important to cover it up (otherwise you play pincushion every time you step into a dark area because every single enemy could just fire at the rune). Unless you can use the rune as a torch, a simple mundane headband must be enough to cover it up. Seriously, take a headband, take a moderate flashlight or an actual glowstick, and try to cover the light. It works. You don't need any fancy stuff.

Yes, I know that Summoner is really strong. But sticking mechanical penalties onto flavor stuff is not the way to tone it down!

And if I am a half orc, and I wear a helmet, they should be able to tell I am a half orc since they can't see the tusks, but they still notice my race, unless I make the check.

Disguise is just the skill for this purpose- to hide your race. It lets you consider whether the cloth is thick enough to hide a feature, whether it is covering everything up. You want to hide your race without making a check, making it impossible for the enemy to make a successful role to see through your tricks. It lets you take care of details like slipping and flipping that might come up in combat, which could reveal your true nature.

I am not saying headband couldn't necessarily handle this problem. I am mostly just giving some in setting justifications for why your disguise check failed. My explanation is just flavor for the hard mechanic of the skill.

I just hold that you need the check for this to really work. Because if just saying "I put a hat on and solved it", and no checks ever came up... well... how would you feel if the gm did this to you? Sent an eidolon assassin to attack you every single day without any means to notice what it even is. No way to make a perception check to notice it is merely the tool of someone standing nearby in the background- the true weakpoint that could end the whole mess permanently.


Claxon wrote:

NPCs make knowledge checks? NEVER!

NPCs only need to make a knowledge planes check (DC is uncertain since there isn't a DC to identify things that grow in levels like humanoid characters) to know an Eidolon is an Eidolon. After the check is made, they then need to determine who is the most likely candidate to be the summoner.

"I dunno, is it the big beefy guy with sword and full plate, or is the tiny guy hiding in the back with light armor and flailing his hands about?"

Depending on the group:

The summoner could very well be the big guy in medium armor swinging a greatsword while the guy in light armor is the magus.

It's not like you need higher than a 12-14 starting charisma if all the summoner plans on doing with spells is buffing and out-of-combat healing.


lemeres wrote:
Derklord wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Armor comes standard with a helmet. Rune = hidden.

And if I am a half orc, and I wear a helmet, they should be able to tell I am a half orc since they can't see the tusks, but they still notice my race, unless I make the check.

Disguise is just the skill for this purpose- to hide your race. It lets you consider whether the cloth is thick enough to hide a feature, whether it is covering everything up. You want to hide your race without making a check, making it impossible for the enemy to make a successful role to see through your tricks. It lets you take care of details like slipping and flipping that might come up in combat, which could reveal your true nature.

I am not saying headband couldn't necessarily handle this problem. I am mostly just giving some in setting justifications for why your disguise check failed. My explanation is just flavor for the hard mechanic of the skill.

I just hold that you need the check for this to really work. Because if just saying "I put a hat on and solved it", and no checks ever came up... well... how would you feel if the gm did this to you? Sent an eidolon assassin to attack you every single day without any means to notice what it even is. No way to make a perception check to notice it is merely the tool of someone standing nearby in the background- the true weakpoint that could end the whole mess permanently.

The summoner's rune is a specific feature, in a specific location, with the specific notation that it can be covered by mundane means.

Anything that would normally cover the forehead covers the rune.

Disguise is a much more far reaching skill. With Disguise, I get to pretend to be a female human instead of a male half-orc. And a damned sexy female at that.

Disguise on an eidolon would allow that eidolon to pass as a different creature, not just conceal a rune. Make your Perception check before you make that Knowledge: Planes check.


lemeres wrote:
I just hold that you need the check for this to really work.

I took a headband and a fairly weak flashlight, went into the basement and tried if I can completly cover the light. I can. So either I have a magical Headband of Disguise +10 in my closet, or thisis something that doesn't call for a disguise check.

lemeres wrote:
Because if just saying "I put a hat on and solved it", and no checks ever came up... well... how would you feel if the gm did this to you? Sent an eidolon assassin to attack you every single day without any means to notice what it even is. No way to make a perception check to notice it is merely the tool of someone standing nearby in the background- the true weakpoint that could end the whole mess permanently.

Fair is fair. Truth be told, that sounds like it could be quite an interesting plot. Of course, if the exact same creature (or at least multiple creature that look exactly identical) attacks the party every day, finding out who's responsible is a pretty normal thing to do.

I might just use that idea in a future campaign.

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