Bumping CR for too much loot?

[KingDrache64]

I have looked everywhere and can't find anyone talking about how to calculate CR fit adding too much loot.

I co-gm with a lesser experienced gm who gives away too much loot so when it's my turn to GM I have a difficult time determining correct CR for the party

[Deighton Thrane]

Well, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule for this, but a good guide might be for every 2 levels they are higher than the WBL tables, add +1 to their APL. Similar to how mythic ranks add to APL.

However I might be cautious with this. I've played in a game where the GM tried to make up for having 3 players by increasing party wealth. But there are some things things the increase much more from character levels than items, like hit points for example. So try and design encounters with higher AC and to hit, but don't pump the damage too much, you might find your PC unable to deal with the extra damage.

[DM_Blake]

Your party doesn't have a CR, they have an APL.

I am unaware of any rule for bumping up their APL based on loot.

My first suggestion is to talk to that other GM and get the two of you on the same page about giving out loot - hopefully it's the official page with the WBL chart on it...

Secondly, if you follow ALL the rules and guidelines but you raise the APL because they have extra loot, then that means you have them encounter higher CR encounters. No problem. But, that does mean MORE treasure for them because higher CR = higher loot values per encounter. So if you're going to raise the CR, go for it, but probably DON'T raise the loot (which means you won't be following ALL of the guidelines).

One solution to that second point is give them loot that they CANNOT use to make themselves more powerful. Give them a castle somewhere, or at least some empty land bequeathed by a grateful king or duke or some such. If you give them gold, they spend it on magic stuff, but if you give them land (and then don't have any rich NPCs available to buy it from them), well, they gain value but they don't gain power.

But really, just fix this with the other GM. You guys are friends. Show him the rules and explain how he's wrecking the balance of the game. He'll come around. I hope.

[Ascalaphus]

Another note: some monsters tend to have more treasure ("double", "triple"), while others less ("incidental", "none"). The official recommendation is to vary your choice of monsters so it evens out.

[SheepishEidolon]

As a rule of thumb: When my players have significantly more than WBL indicates, they get halved loot till it fits.

[Guru-Meditation]

If they are so burdened with Bling that their combat stats go up noticeably you need to present them with CRs that arehigher than if they were equipped normally, to reach the same level of effective challenge.

Id raise the monster's CR by +1 if they are wealthy, and +2 if they are filty rich.

As a quick and dirty method, raise monsters HP by 50% and saves, to-hit, and DCs by 2. So you dont have to redesign every encounter by hand if you run a pregen adventure.

[KingDrache64]

Sorry I had 3 minutes to type this at the time. (Please excuse the typos and terminology).

I find it strange that there is no chart or specific rule for this. It seems like every new GM makes the mistake of dolling out too much cool stuff, I did it when I was new, all GM's I've taught since then have fallen into that (which is about 5 people).

I've also wanted to run gear based characters vs ability based characters. (Running an expert NPC class with high tech gear to feel like Ironman lol)

But the rules don't seem to support or even entertain the idea of a gear based advancement. This would be a great system to plug into an ultimate equipment book or something... Just saying.

DM_Blake wrote:

Your party doesn't have a CR, they have an APL.

I am unaware of any rule for bumping up their APL based on loot.

My first suggestion is to talk to that other GM and get the two of you on the same page about giving out loot - hopefully it's the official page with the WBL chart on it...

Secondly, if you follow ALL the rules and guidelines but you raise the APL because they have extra loot, then that means you have them encounter higher CR encounters. No problem. But, that does mean MORE treasure for them because higher CR = higher loot values per encounter. So if you're going to raise the CR, go for it, but probably DON'T raise the loot (which means you won't be following ALL of the guidelines).

One solution to that second point is give them loot that they CANNOT use to make themselves more powerful. Give them a castle somewhere, or at least some empty land bequeathed by a grateful king or duke or some such. If you give them gold, they spend it on magic stuff, but if you give them land (and then don't have any rich NPCs available to buy it from them), well, they gain value but they don't gain power.

But really, just fix this with the other GM. You guys are friends. Show him the rules and explain how he's wrecking the balance of the game. He'll come around. I hope.

[Maezer]

Loots effect is not easy to judge. It is also highly dependent on what they purchase with the loot. As there are lots of not very effective yet very expensive items out there.

That said, going from NPC wealth per level, to PC wealth per level is +1 CR. You might try and use that as standard, but mileage will vary significantly.