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First of all, hello there people.
Second of all: I have started acting as a GM in the last weeks and sometimes I've seen things that have made me shrug, but after thinking for some seconds, I decided not to argue with the player to avoid stalling the session.
Yesterday this happened:
Player Character: Magus 3 / Rogue 1.
Combat round action(s): Moves to flank an enemy. Uses a Shocking Grasp WAND with his left hand. He makes a touch attack with his rapier, damage dice would be:
1d6 from the RAPIER + 3d6 Shocking Grasp + 1d6 sneak attack.
Can he do this? Is it legal?
If it is, what feats/abilities does he need to do this?
TYVM in advance!
That doesn't sound right unless they have Wand Wielder discovery,
Wand Wielder (Su): The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat.
HOWEVER:
Something that usually gets missed with wands is that they have MINIMUM caster level unless otherwise noted.
So in this case, a Shocking Grasp Wand (Under normal circumstances) would be a +1d6 NOT +3d6 unless the wand is a CL3 Wand (Which is somewhat more expensive, and may not even be available to a L4 character?)
At least, that's my 'from the hip' math?
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Spellstrike- a magus class feature. He appears correct in most of this, but:
1. Using a wand for Spellstrike requires an Arcana (this is a magus class feature, which like rogue talent gives you a list of things to choose from) Wand Wielder.
2. Using Spellstrike and Spell Combat are full round actions.
3. The wand is 1d6 damage, and if he Spellstrikes to hit with the Rapier, this doesn't target touch AC.
I suggest reading up on the magus before you play with this player again, it can be very handy to have a firm grip on some of the more complicated classes. The Magus is in Ultimate Magic, or on the PRD.
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1. Using a wand for Spellstrike requires an Arcana (this is a magus class feature, which like rogue talent gives you a list of things to choose from) Wand Wielder.
The wand wielder arcana allows you to use a wand in spell combat. It doesn't say anything about spellstrike.
2. Using Spellstrike and Spell Combat are full round actions.
Spellstrike does not take a full-round action, it takes as long as casting the spell and delivering a touch attack normally takes (which could be a standard action).
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Spellstrike can be used with Spell Combat. You can Wand Wielder->Spell Combat->Spellstrike.
You are correct that Spellstrike isn't a Full Round Action though. I tend to forget that. When used with Wand Wielder though it is, as you are using it to Spell Combat.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
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Combat round action(s): Moves to flank an enemy. Uses a Shocking Grasp WAND with his left hand. He makes a touch attack with his rapier, damage dice would be:
1d6 from the RAPIER + 3d6 Shocking Grasp + 1d6 sneak attack.Can he do this? Is it legal?
If it is, what feats/abilities does he need to do this?
He is using spellstrike:
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell.
It just means he can deliver a spell with a weapon instead of a touch attack.
However, there are a few problems with what he's done:
- The rapier attack is a melee attack, not a touch attack, so would not be against touch AC.
- Spellstrike says the magus must 'cast a spell', not just use a wand. So it must come from one of his own magus spell slots.
- Casting that spell right next to an enemy would normally provoke an AoO (unlike using a wand). However, he can avoid this by casting the spell, then moving, then delivering the attack (all perfectly legal as standard).
- The points above render it academic, but as others have pointed out, unless he's bought a CL3 wand off a chronicle, the shocking grasp would do 1d6 damage, not 3d6.
So he could get the damage you stated, but he would need to cast the spell from his own slot (which would provoke an AoO unless he cast the spell before he moved).
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Spellstrike can be used with Spell Combat. You can Wand Wielder->Spell Combat->Spellstrike.
You are correct that Spellstrike isn't a Full Round Action though. I tend to forget that. When used with Wand Wielder though it is, as you are using it to Spell Combat.
Can you give an example of how you would expect things to work for a magus 3 with wand wielder, a wand of shocking grasp and a rapier?
Wand wielder doesn't do anything to make wands work with spellstrike. And spellstrike doesn't normally work with wands as the magus has to cast the spell, and using a wand doesn't count as casting a spell. I can't see anything that makes the combination with spell combat relevant.
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As others have said, the issue is the wand unless he took wand wielder as his first arcana. If he did that, he could use the wand but it would do 1d6.
He'd still have to deliver it with a normal touch attack, not through the rapier as a spellstrike.
EDIT: He could do rapier/wand as spell combat (two separate attacks at -2, full-round action) if he had wand wielder, but I assumed the 'move' mentioned by the OP was more than a 5-ft step.----------
More than one person has referred to the wand wielder arcana; for reference, all it says is:
Wand Wielder (Su): The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat.
It doesn't help with spellstrike at all.
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For anyone trying to get to grips with how the magi abilities work, I recommend reading the excellent explanation at A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat [Ver 0.4 Alpha].
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It has been mentioned above, but is worth repeating.
He could have a CL 3 shocking grasp wand, if he has a chronicle sheet that has one listed.
Also, I think there is a feat or class feature that lets you use your level for scrolls instead of the CL level of the scroll. Is there one of those for wands?
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It has been mentioned above, but is worth repeating.
He could have a CL 3 shocking grasp wand, if he has a chronicle sheet that has one listed.
Also, I think there is a feat or class feature that lets you use your level for scrolls instead of the CL level of the scroll. Is there one of those for wands?
What about the SNEAK attack dice? Can he add that die too?
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What about the SNEAK attack dice? Can he add that die too?It has been mentioned above, but is worth repeating.
He could have a CL 3 shocking grasp wand, if he has a chronicle sheet that has one listed.
Also, I think there is a feat or class feature that lets you use your level for scrolls instead of the CL level of the scroll. Is there one of those for wands?
Yes. So long as the creature fulfilled the targeting requirements for sneak attack damage(flanked or denied dex) you get the sneak attack damage. Flanking only gives it on melee attack, but touch spells are melee attacks. On denied dex targets, any spell that does damage and is a "roll D20 attack" does sneak attack damage. But in this case the spell component of the attack doesn't matter.
He attacked with a rapier. He has sneak attack dice. Sneak attack damage is done. The extra damage from other abilities does not deny sneak attack damage unless it specifically says it does.
If he wants to deal rapier damage, he needs to hit the target's regular AC, unless he somehow got something like a brilliant energy enchantment at this level (not likely). Strength modifier is also not applicable. He could hit with a touch attack, discharge shocking grasp, plus deal sneak attack damage that way, but not do rapier damage (plus strength damage). Or he could hit with the rapier on a regular attack, do shocking grasp, sneak attack, rapier+Strength damage. But not between the two.
He did a touch attack with a rapier:
1d6 rapier damage + 1d6 sneak + xd6 shocking grasp.
Is it legal? Touch attack adds rapier damage (and strength modifier if he had one)? Because in my head makes no sense at all.
It makes no sense in the rules, either, Claudette. He can't get his rapier damage (or Strength bonus) with a touch attack.
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I think that to deal sneak attack you need to deal at some hp of damage.
It is not clearly spelled out, but it is implied by this line and the fact that the sneak attack damage is the same kind of damage as the main source.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
If you use shocking grasp to attack, your sneak attack deal electrical damage.
If you are a shadow and inflict strength damage your sneak attack dice isn't added to the strength damage. (Now I only need to find where is the relevant rule/FAQ)