[Purple Duck Games] Kineticist of Porphyra (and guide) discussion


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Silver Crusade

Azten wrote:
Mostly I returned to Air to avoid having to pick another Element and to keep the electricity and time flavor of what would basically amount to a giant mechanical, humanoid clock.

That does sound pretty cool. I think aether could work since it's an invisible element myself, but I just like the utility of it.

Work is finally beginning on KOP 3: This time it's Personal, so I plan on asking what people want from the new book. Currently, there's no plans on any new elements, which means this will most likely end up less of a stand alone book than KOP 1 or 2. I do plan on putting up new talents for all 7 first party elements as well as my 5 third party elements, elemental saturations for sound, time, light, poison, and viscera, as well as going into new ground on some of them.

What I'd like to know is what are you looking for in a sequel book? I've seen some people talk about more tristalt elements like Bloody Murder Blast, more early game talents, and other things like this, but what would you like to see as a priority in this new expansion? Would you like archetypes to take a center stage here, more early talents, more synergy between elements and abilities (I had some feats planned for this one), or is there something you think could be done more accurately? Hell, do you want more sample characters?

As with the previous KOP books, I want you all to let me know what I can write to help make this book just as amazing as it can be for everyone. Feel free to message me, email me at n.jolly@ymail.com, or whatever else works for you. And if you haven't already, please post a review on either drivethru RPG, the PFSRD shop, and Paizo for KOP 1 and 2, as it always helps to see what you think of the books and what can be improved.

Now that I'm finally back in the zone, this is going to be one hell of a finale (probably) to this line unless we get some serious demand for another book.


I always got the impression that the elemental saturations actually are build your own powers, with a few examples given. I'd love to see more examples (perhaps 2-3 per element from any and all available sources) and even perhaps a few multi elemental (affecting specific composite blast) examples, but I'd double check the old wording first and if it seems reasonable that those were meant to be example option abilities I'd make it doubly clear again in your own book that it's an optional subsystem of rules with the possibility to customize characters to their campaigns.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally, I would like more wild talents the most, whether utility or infusion, particularly lower level ones, but just things to round out kineticist options. But it's definitely one of the things I feel is lacking. More kineticist feats and magic items would also be appreciated, the magic items from KoP2 in particular were extremely helpful.

I'd also kind of like it if you went in and filled in every possible element combination for composite blasts, even the ones Paizo just skipped out on due to space considerations...but I understand you have space considerations of your own, so I'd understand if you didn't. I mean, I know you can houserule it, but it would be nice to have a table to consult rather than having to come up with one for each combination...

Might make a longer post when I'm at home instead of posting from work...


More important to that note than figuring out the touch/nontouch and damage numbers is "what form/substance infusions should work with a composite of x&y?". It's easy to say that x&y is a touch/physical so it follows that same old damage pattern, but does it allow chain? Can I make it pushing?


I'd definitely like more composites so everyone is covered no matter what elements they pick. I know I was looking for one(can't remember the elements right now) composite and was saddened that it wasn't made.

And now for the Dragon Pig and, because I realized just how nasty it could be, a bonus NPC I've affectionately dubbed Reaper.

The Dragon Pig, a Skinwalker(Ragebred) Kineticist(Green Dragon Pact):

Str 18(16+2)
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8(10-2)

Level Advancements: +3 Dex, +2 Wis

Power Attack, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Improved Bull Rush, Greater Bull Rush, Extra Feature, Ability Focus(Kinetic Blast), Stealth Gathering, Bestial Pounce, Improved Stealth Gathering, Extra Wild Talent(Draconic Breath[Cone])

Class Features: Burn, Elemental Focus(Fire), Gather Power, Dragon Pact, Form of the Dragon, Draconic Defense, Metakinesis (Empower), Form of the Dragon II, Draconic Fusion Composite Blast, Draconic Flight, Metakinesis (Maximize), Expanded Element(Poison), Supercharge, Metakinesis (Quicken), Infusion specialization 4, Form of the Dragon III, Elemental Overflow +5, Composite Specialization, Internal Buffer 3,

Infusions: Kinetic Fist(Form, Archetype), Painful Infusion(Substance. 3rd level), Melting Infusion(Substance, 5th level), Incorporeal Infusion(Substance, 9th level), Lingering Infusion (11th level), Burning Infusion(Substance, 13th level), Grappling Infusion(15th level)

Utility Wild Talents: Draconic Form(Archetype), Fire's Fury(2nd level), Heat Adaptation(4th level), Firesight(6th level), Tail of the Dragon(Archetype, 7th level), Wings of the Dragon (Archetype 8th level), Spark of Life(12th level), Kinetic Form(14th level), Elemental Eater(16th level)

The Reaper, a Dhampir Lich Kineticist(Overwhelming Soul, Kinetic Duelist:

Void -> Viscera -> Fire

Str 10
Dex 18(16+2)
Con -
Int 12(10+2)
Wis 16(14+2)
Cha 25(18+2+5)

Lv1 Pure Negative Infusion
Lv2 Atrophy Field
Lv3 Pushing Infusion
Lv4 Kinetic Crafer
Lv5 Ranged Blast
Lv6 Shroud of Shadows
Lv7 Extra Wild Talent(Unnatural Evolution)
Lv8 Eyes of the Void
Lv9 Bleeding Infusion, Extra Wild Talent(Darkness Infusion)
Lv10 Plains of Weeping Wounds
Lv11 Grappling Infusion, Extra Wild Talent(Zone of Decay)
Lv12 Divine Interferance
Lv13 Greater Darkness Infusion, Extra Wild Talent(Improved Unnatural Evolution)
Lv14 Vampiric Grasp
Lv15 Extra Wild Talent(Burning Infusion)
Lv16 Greater Eyes of the Void
Lv17 Unraveling Infusion, Extra Wild Talent(Kinetic Form)
Lv18 Greater Unnatural Evolution
Lv19 Decaying Infusion
Lv20 Reverse Shift

Help arranging the wild talents better for Reaper would be quite appreciated. N. Jolly, thank you so much for adding wonderful options to an already wonderful class! ^^

Silver Crusade

I'm actually okay with making composites for all combinations, or at least a larger portion of them. I think one of my issues is that it will cause the 'associated blast' section of most infusions to be even larger than it already is (just look at things like overload infusion in KOP 2), but if the idea of listing the associated blast as (fire [extended]) for this would work, I think I could work with that, at least for elements that don't have a composite+ like aether, void, sound, and time.

I can also work to give more low level talents, as I did want to expand upon that. I have a few new ideas that I'm looking to try out, although everything's still in the rough draft stages. I do have a few ideas that I really want to make sure I touch on with this book, some of the more 'out there' ideas like the idea of composite utility talents, a concept I'm referring to at the moment as 'elementa mutations', and a few others.

Everything else is still too early to get into, but those ideas at the moment are something I feel will be solidly included.

Also my life is only saddened by ragebred, although Reaper looks really sweet, a somewhat viable overwhelming soul is always nice to see.

I can agree that the backwards compatibility of some new composite blast could be hard to round up, so there'd probably have to be a section on them that included which 1st party infusions they could use, since most of the KOP 1/2 elements get all of their infusions with all of their blast.


I can understand why Ragebred is saddening. Seven natural attacks, all primary and dealing extra elemental damage, with four of them having an increased crit range, is just bad.

i figured since everyone always says Overwhelming Soul is for undead, constructs, etc, why not take that and run with it? In related news, Wraith Geokineticists with Tremorsense can do the usually illegal combo of Spring Attacking out of a wall back into a wall. It's nasty. :)

I need to replace Vampiric Grasp though. It only hurts Reaper at that level. >.>

Silver Crusade

Okay, KOP 2 has been reviewed in its entirety in the guide. I reviewed it myself, but if there's any discussion or such if I was incorrect in anything, please let me know. It's funny, I didn't think of it as my own content while reviewing it, mostly because I zone into things so hard when I'm doing that to the point where I just see it as content and review it accordingly.

Okay, let me look over reaper real quick. Really, if you want to submit a sample build for the guide, just let me know, as I need some 3P sample builds.

First, I'm assuming you're taking negative blast, although from how void reads, I don't think you can take a negative pushing blast, which is what confused me about your third level choice.

I am happy to see how useful people find unnatural evo, I forgot how good that could be as an extra talent, even at 7th level.

Yeah, I could easily see cutting vampiric grasp, I don't feel it'll help you out much. I'd try to find some way to put in petrified innards early so you could snag preserved flesh at that level.

EDIT: Preserved flesh will be errata'd to clarify how it interacts with burn, for now just assume you don't receive immunity to nonlethal damage.


Pushing Infusion: I imagine not everything Reaper would fight would be undead, so the ability to smack a living creature with a blade of negative energy and push it back seemed like a decent choice. Void calls out being able to use Pushing with the negative blast too.

Petrified Innards: A nice ability I had overlooked. For the Kineticist going Lich though, Preserved Flesh isn't required at all. The template does everything mummification does, and on an Overwhelming Soul there's no nonlethel from Burn anyway.

Unnatural Evo + Protean Alteration + Kinetic Duelist: Pounce. That is all.

Vampiric Grasp: Probably switching it for Petrified Innards.

If you want me to build Reaper out as a full NPC I can.


Anybody got FCB for all the little races yet? I'd love to have some, a recent thread re: Kitsune Kineticists has me Jonesing for a 9-tail firefox that never leaves fox form as a silent, skittish DMPC. But so far he's going to end up using the human FCB if I don't find a Kitsune specific one.


Now there is something I'd like seeing. Flavorful(but not necessarily better than +1 HP) favored class bonuses.


Azten wrote:
Now there is something I'd like seeing. Flavorful(but not necessarily better than +1 HP) favored class bonuses.

It's funny that this is the only class I've ever considered actually taking the HP FCB for (human getting 2 FCB as a feat not included, and even then I usually get skills and alt and leave hp).


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm, that's a good point. Favored class bonuses would be nice, and I'd also like some alternate racial traits that work for kineticists, like ifrit/oread/sylph/undines getting bonuses for that instead of magic (though that is certainly easily homebrewed), possibly a pyrokinetic option for gnomes (though given fell magic, a chaokinetic one might be suitable?), that sort of thing. I'd kind of also like elementals (and wysps?) for the new elements...but that might be asking a bit much.

I would kind of like a way to get a small elemental or an elemental wysp from Bestiary 5 as a familiar...especially the latter, they're so fitting for a kineticist familiar, yet you have to either multiclass or snag 3-4 feats to get one. Kind of also would like a phytokinetic to be able to somehow create or summon creatures from the Summon Plant Ally feat or something similar. Though that does make me remember Train Plants and Grow Plant Creature...

...but yeah, lots of things I'd like. Like Black Curse Flame infusion that acts like bestow curse, or a way for telekinetics to have one or more objects orbiting them to provide either a shield bonus to AC or partial cover or an option for pyrokinetics to burn curses, diseases, or poisons out of someone's body, or some methods to snag slightly boosted versions of some occult skill unlocks for some elements (prognostication as pyromancy for fire, maybe crystallomancy for earth or osteomancy for viscera, maybe some form of dowsing)...ugh, I could probably keep going, but I've probably rambled too much already!

Silver Crusade

Luthorne wrote:

Hmm, that's a good point. Favored class bonuses would be nice, and I'd also like some alternate racial traits that work for kineticists, like ifrit/oread/sylph/undines getting bonuses for that instead of magic (though that is certainly easily homebrewed), possibly a pyrokinetic option for gnomes (though given fell magic, a chaokinetic one might be suitable?), that sort of thing. I'd kind of also like elementals (and wysps?) for the new elements...but that might be asking a bit much.

I would kind of like a way to get a small elemental or an elemental wysp from Bestiary 5 as a familiar...especially the latter, they're so fitting for a kineticist familiar, yet you have to either multiclass or snag 3-4 feats to get one. Kind of also would like a phytokinetic to be able to somehow create or summon creatures from the Summon Plant Ally feat or something similar. Though that does make me remember Train Plants and Grow Plant Creature...

...but yeah, lots of things I'd like. Like Black Curse Flame infusion that acts like bestow curse, or a way for telekinetics to have one or more objects orbiting them to provide either a shield bonus to AC or partial cover or an option for pyrokinetics to burn curses, diseases, or poisons out of someone's body, or some methods to snag slightly boosted versions of some occult skill unlocks for some elements (prognostication as pyromancy for fire, maybe crystallomancy for earth or osteomancy for viscera, maybe some form of dowsing)...ugh, I could probably keep going, but I've probably rambled too much already!

Something I can share that's on the board is an archetype specifically for elemental races, although seeing people asking for new FCBs, those will definitely be added to the list of things that I'll be adding. Right now I'm working on the rough drafts for elemental saturations.

As an aside on that, the thing I don't like about ES is that it only benefits one party member, so right now the idea I have is actually allowing the entire party to benefit from an elemental saturation. What that benefit for non kineticist will be is up in the air at the moment, but they will get something if they want to play along with an elemental saturation.

Wysp were actually considered, but Mort is going to be working on that with her project, which I'm helping with. Her and I have an agreement that we won't poach ideas off of each other, so you'll have to wait until the Kinetic Tome (rough name) for that to come out. She's also doing things with plant animal companions, and she'll hopefully be keeping everyone updated on that.

Some things that you're mentioning seem like they'd be better in an archetype, but I can see the value of including other options like what you're talking about. Personally, if you have more things you'd like to see included, feel free to continue. While I have my own ideas, I've said it before that I want this to be as much a community book as my own, and that I want to make content that people want. A lot of KOP 1 and 2 was pulled from threads of people asking for things, and I wanted to do my best to provide the content that people are looking for with things like this.


I do feel like elemental saturations benefiting the party is a cool idea, but that's working into a weird spot for sure. Existing ES are a mini quest you undertake to gain a unique-to-you wild talent. It still takes up a talent slot, and isn't more powerful than other talents, so even gaining many ES on one character is only going to make you very interesting and unique, not strictly speaking more powerful than a base kineticist. They don't really "give" you anything as they are now.

A small bonus to the party (resist fire 5 to everyone) may not seem out of line, but if the whole party got several of them then it could need to start impacting wealth by level to keep CR appropriate. And if someone then bit the dust, their new character would have to explain the bizarre bonuses they have in a different way, or be permanently behind the party.

Something that gives neat options but doesn't increase power in any significant or abusable way is best, and perhaps even limiting it to only one active saturation at a time. For instance, a purely thematic effect such as a fire burning behind the pupils of the target, perhaps granting the benefit of always having a candle handy for the purposes of reading/seeing. Rare to never that it'll even matter, and can even cause problems with social or stealth situations if you forget to suppress it. If the new party member can't do it... Well, he didn't lose much.

I like the idea of party wide saturations, and even with them being a kind of way to re-vamp WBL, a sort of corollary mechanic to the whole thing with the big six items being baked into your character. But that's a whole system with a lot of neat options which shouldn't be done lightly if you're going to open that door. It could easily fill it's own book if you wanted to do it right. I do hope it gets done sooner or later and if you think this is the time, or I'm over thinking it, go for it!


N. Jolly wrote:
Something I can share that's on the board is an archetype specifically for elemental races, although seeing people asking for new FCBs, those will definitely be added to the list of things that I'll be adding. Right now I'm working on the rough drafts for elemental saturations.

Ooooooooh, me like :)

Quote:
Wysp were actually considered, but Mort is going to be working on that with her project, which I'm helping with. Her and I have an agreement that we won't poach ideas off of each other, so you'll have to wait until the Kinetic Tome (rough name) for that to come out. She's also doing things with plant animal companions, and she'll hopefully be keeping everyone updated on that.

Kinetic Tome? Really...? Where can I get info on this product ;) ?

If you guys are looking for archetype ideas, here's a tip: pick any of the player companions, get in touch with the general theme and make an archetype for the Kineticist.

For instance:
- Wysp Rancher (an archetype with a Wysp familiar; Cohorts and Companions and Familiar Folio)
- Elemental Skinmaster (an archetype focused on defense; Armor Master's Handbook)
- Rural Arsonist (an archetype for a Kineticist street urchin; Heroes of the Streets)
- Kinetic Conjurer (an archetype for elemental summoning; Monster Summoner's Handbook)
- Hellfire/Graveground/Omen Wind/Styx Kineticist (an archetype for evil characters; Faiths of Corruption, Champions of Corruption, Agents of Evil)

Since Occult Adventures came after a lot of specific themed handbooks, that looks like a good place to start ;)


N. Jolly wrote:
Wysp were actually considered, but Mort is going to be working on that with her project, which I'm helping with. Her and I have an agreement that we won't poach ideas off of each other, so you'll have to wait until the Kinetic Tome (rough name) for that to come out. She's also doing things with plant animal companions, and she'll hopefully be keeping everyone updated on that.

I actually introduced N. Jolly to Wysps. I'm quite happy with what they will get, but I'm not touching ES beyond the Kineticists. So that's another one for N. Jolly!

I'm actually feeling Kineticist Tome for now as a good final name. Anyways, I have some plan(t)s for Wood. The goal more or less is to give Wood the flavor of being a master of allies, many of them from that list. However, they are a bit stronger thanks to a phantom buff.

JiCi wrote:

If you guys are looking for archetype ideas, here's a tip: pick any of the player companions, get in touch with the general theme and make an archetype for the Kineticist.

For instance:
- Wysp Rancher (an archetype with a Wysp familiar; Cohorts and Companions and Familiar Folio)
- Elemental Skinmaster (an archetype focused on defense; Armor Master's Handbook)
- Rural Arsonist (an archetype for a Kineticist street urchin; Heroes of the Streets)
- Kinetic Conjurer (an archetype for elemental summoning; Monster Summoner's Handbook)
- Hellfire/Graveground/Omen Wind/Styx Kineticist (an archetype for evil characters; Faiths of Corruption, Champions of Corruption, Agents of Evil)

Since Occult Adventures came after a lot of specific themed handbooks, that looks like a good place to start ;)

Actually, at this point it's more of a battle to keep me from writing too many archetypes. XD The ideas are overwhelming and the biggest feature of the book is such a massive undertaking in and of itself. I'm in fear of getting too tired to write both of the new elements I had planned. (Though Hellfire might be addressed by the biggest feature... which is NOT archetypes.)


Found a loophole. If the ES working for a crowd was written into the class, it wouldn't impact WBL and could be fair play and also not interrupt new players / rerolled sheets.

This would be a matter of making a multi-target ES buff for each element (instead of having a normal mid level utility talent I can have what amounts to Heat Adaptation (mass) on my hydro or pyro) or an archetype of kineticist which gives up something class feature wise to be able to pass out strong ES based buffs to the party. (My infusion specialization is permanently off track by 1, but I can give the whole party resist element equal to my level for a minute as a standard action so that's a cool thing, and in a few more levels I can choose to make all our weapons Flaming, or spend a burn to make them all Flaming Burst!)

Note that I'm not personally saying I want that archetype, but it would give a neat kinetic bard feel that I don't feel other archetypes have touched yet so it's a nice development niche if you want it and it solves your ES Party Buff problem fairly well.


Can't the Divine Conduit do that already?


Azten wrote:
Can't the Divine Conduit do that already?

Possibly, I only just managed to convince myself to buy KOP1 last night and I'm still reading through it, let alone KOP2 where I assume you're getting that name (archetype?). I have a serious problem buying things for myself, no matter how bad I want them. *shrug*

If it already exists then it's no big deal, there were two ways to make it work in the post and I'm sure more will be thought up.

Silver Crusade

Shiroi wrote:

I do feel like elemental saturations benefiting the party is a cool idea, but that's working into a weird spot for sure. Existing ES are a mini quest you undertake to gain a unique-to-you wild talent. It still takes up a talent slot, and isn't more powerful than other talents, so even gaining many ES on one character is only going to make you very interesting and unique, not strictly speaking more powerful than a base kineticist. They don't really "give" you anything as they are now.

A small bonus to the party (resist fire 5 to everyone) may not seem out of line, but if the whole party got several of them then it could need to start impacting wealth by level to keep CR appropriate. And if someone then bit the dust, their new character would have to explain the bizarre bonuses they have in a different way, or be permanently behind the party.

Something that gives neat options but doesn't increase power in any significant or abusable way is best, and perhaps even limiting it to only one active saturation at a time. For instance, a purely thematic effect such as a fire burning behind the pupils of the target, perhaps granting the benefit of always having a candle handy for the purposes of reading/seeing. Rare to never that it'll even matter, and can even cause problems with social or stealth situations if you forget to suppress it. If the new party member can't do it... Well, he didn't lose much.

I like the idea of party wide saturations, and even with them being a kind of way to re-vamp WBL, a sort of corollary mechanic to the whole thing with the big six items being baked into your character. But that's a whole system with a lot of neat options which shouldn't be done lightly if you're going to open that door. It could easily fill it's own book if you wanted to do it right. I do hope it gets done sooner or later and if you think this is the time, or I'm over thinking it, go for it!

What I'm thinking for this (I'll never show my original draft) is that non-kineticist can only benefit from 1 ES at any given time, but they'll still get some small bonus (maybe +2 perception for light or something small), but I'm basing my ES ideas off of wondrous locations from 3.5, which to me really need to come back. ESes in this book are going to be specific locations that can be transplanted into settings seamlessly.

Right now the following locations are being considered:

The field of blue echoes-Risk losing your name and identity among the field.
The genus loci-Allow the local spirit to devour you.
The valley of venom-Experience the worst of nature's venoms.

There's a few others that are being considered, I might actually write these wondrous locations for the other elements as well, although I'd consider these 'advanced' ESes. I know the original wondrous locations had a GP value attached to them, so I might allow the entire party to get a benefit and give a GP value to it to make sure that WBL is maintained so that multiple ones can be allowed.

"JiCi wrote:

Kinetic Tome? Really...? Where can I get info on this product ;) ?

If you guys are looking for archetype ideas, here's a tip: pick any of the player companions, get in touch with the general theme and make an archetype for the Kineticist.

For instance:
- Wysp Rancher (an archetype with a Wysp familiar; Cohorts and Companions and Familiar Folio)
- Elemental Skinmaster (an archetype focused on defense; Armor Master's Handbook)
- Rural Arsonist (an archetype for a Kineticist street urchin; Heroes of the Streets)
- Kinetic Conjurer (an archetype for elemental summoning; Monster Summoner's Handbook)
- Hellfire/Graveground/Omen Wind/Styx Kineticist (an archetype for evil characters; Faiths of Corruption, Champions of Corruption, Agents of Evil)

Since Occult Adventures came after a lot of specific themed handbooks, that looks like a good place to start ;)

Due to how the Kinetic Tome is coming out, it's hard to make a thread for it, so for the time being I'm okay with Mort talking about it here.

Right now I'm flip flopping on a lot of archetype ideas, as with KOP 2, there was a lot that ended up being cut due to being either too samey as others or just not having enough of an identity. That's why I'm not talking about any archetype ideas at the moment because Mort and Onyx can attest to the fact that there was quite a few archetype ideas that made it to the 11th hour before being cut.

I want to take a bit longer to design this one, I might keep it slow enough so where I can see how Ultimate Intrigue shakes out. It could be fun to see if there's any material there I can use.


N. Jolly wrote:
I want to take a bit longer to design this one, I might keep it slow enough so where I can see how Ultimate Intrigue shakes out. It could be fun to see if there's any material there I can use.

I'm thinking there will be some fun stuff to steal from it, if only for flavor rather than powerhouse value. I'm afraid in traditional adventuring terms there won't be much good to take. However, I'm betting stealing a Magical Child's ability to turn into a power ranger will be aces for anything.

EDIT: Actually, I am afraid showing KT now would be too early, but I'm tempted to finish and clean out the section on Genie-kin and post that as a preview.


So my only concern with a third book is that it might be too much content too soon. This would be the 3rd book in less than 4 months? That's not a lot of time to play with options and find things that need to be covered. For example, I haven't been able to pick up KoP2 yet, but unless you fixed it, the telekineticist isn't able to levitate allies or enemies. I'm talking just lifting someone up and holding them there. Something so basic and iconic and yet... she can't do it.

I just don't know if there's been enough time for people to see what holes in the class still need to be filled. Like, what about kineticist archetypes for other classes? Like a monk with limited kinetic blasts, or a magus or a phytokinetic druid.

Might be in the minority, but those are my thoughts.


I did one for the cleric that turned out quite nicely with. N. Jolly helped make it better too. Major props to this guy for Kineticists everywhere.


Tels wrote:

So my only concern with a third book is that it might be too much content too soon. This would be the 3rd book in less than 4 months? That's not a lot of time to play with options and find things that need to be covered. For example, I haven't been able to pick up KoP2 yet, but unless you fixed it, the telekineticist isn't able to levitate allies or enemies. I'm talking just lifting someone up and holding them there. Something so basic and iconic and yet... she can't do it.

I just don't know if there's been enough time for people to see what holes in the class still need to be filled. Like, what about kineticist archetypes for other classes? Like a monk with limited kinetic blasts, or a magus or a phytokinetic druid.

Might be in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

It's certainly a concern. One N. Jolly himself pointed out.

Buuuuuut, Kineticist being so new there's a huge hole. The sales figures thus far suggest that people are thirsty. Honestly, I'm surprised N. Jolly has been alone in exploiting them so soon. I'm targeting around June-July because I know I'm far too busy to do this quickly, but other companies haven't hit the selves with dedicated material?

If you want Kineticist goodies for others though, Kineticist Tome will be more up your alley. I agree with spreading the love, though N. Jolly has been focusing thus far on the Kineticist itself which is fair because they need the support more. I just have a fondness for giving things to others considering the relative scope of what I am doing.

Silver Crusade

Tels wrote:

So my only concern with a third book is that it might be too much content too soon. This would be the 3rd book in less than 4 months? That's not a lot of time to play with options and find things that need to be covered. For example, I haven't been able to pick up KoP2 yet, but unless you fixed it, the telekineticist isn't able to levitate allies or enemies. I'm talking just lifting someone up and holding them there. Something so basic and iconic and yet... she can't do it.

I just don't know if there's been enough time for people to see what holes in the class still need to be filled. Like, what about kineticist archetypes for other classes? Like a monk with limited kinetic blasts, or a magus or a phytokinetic druid.

Might be in the minority, but those are my thoughts.

This is a fair concern, which is why I did state I want to take this one slower. KOP 1 was literally just some homebrew that I showed Mark and he said 'let it ride', so I kept on adding more and more until it became Kineticists of Porphyra.

KOP 2 was my backlog of ideas that didn't make it into KOP 1, there was still a lot of things that I wanted to include but couldn't (although for the life of me, I don't know WHERE the word count went on that one.) It was a half finished book before I even started on it.

For KOP 3, this is actually all new content that wasn't a throwback to ideas I already had, which is why I'm polling the thread on what they want to see. I think things like ultimate intrigue and such are going to help shape ideas for this, put it isn't going to be shotgunned out like the last two, as it's being written from scratch.

The thing is, people still REALLY want this content. Not necessarily just mine, but they want more kineticist content. The original class is very intriguing, but the very bare bones amount of content released for the base class is leaving most players very desperate for something new, which is really why I believe KOP 1 sold (and continues to sell) very well.

Even if I take a break on the content (I plan for KOP 3 to be the end unless something major comes up, like some new 1st party elements), the desire is going to be there, and at this point most people who are willing to allow 3p content trust KOP as a balanced product. Hell, a decent amount of the kineticist threads I see around here mention it when people are looking for new kineticist options.

As for kineticist archetypes for other class, I'm leaving that more on Mort, although I could probably round up a few. Originally I was staunchly against it, but I'm warming up to the idea of it now. Part of the reason for this was my apprehension on how I would include it in the guide, but I think that shouldn't be a determining factor as to why I do or don't write something.

I told Mort that this book will probably take around 2 months to come out, although that's if I really hammer it out, which is something I think I'm going to try to avoid doing this time, unlike with KOP 2 where I thought I was competing against other books to hit the market first. Kineticists of Porphyra has kind of proved itself as a product line by this point, and so I don't think I need to worry about the competition as much, giving me a lot more wiggle room in how long I can take with this one.

Like I said before, I really want to make this book more 'different' than the others, experiment a bit more with things. And that'll involve getting some eyes on the project which can help boost the time needed, since it's hard both getting content to people and getting their feedback in a timely manner. What I might do is post some previews of things in this thread, since really most people who'd check out this thread have picked up either KOP 1 or 2 and know what to expect, as well as what they want from a new book.

I'm really hoping to get people involved more, and I think giving updates and previews could help that along, although it will stop me from backing out of ideas that I'm not too keen on, which isn't the best thing for me. Let me know if anyone here would like to get previews on what's going on with KOP 3 and such, as well as more suggestions for what you'd like to have included.

Azten wrote:
I did one for the cleric that turned out quite nicely with. N. Jolly helped make it better too. Major props to this guy for Kineticists everywhere.

Oh yeah, I remember that. Trying to shoehorn in kinetic mechanics is always fun, although it can be difficult with how many moving pieces need to come together to make the class viable offensively and utility wise.

The Mortonator wrote:
Buuuuuut, Kineticist being so new there's a huge hole. The sales figures thus far suggest that people are thirsty. Honestly, I'm surprised N. Jolly has been alone in exploiting them so soon. I'm targeting around June-July because I know I'm far too busy to do this quickly, but other companies haven't hit the selves with dedicated material?

I've actually talked to a few people who were doing kineticist 3p aside from me, and it seems the mechanics are just different enough where it's hard to pop out materials for them. My background with things like this really helped in making content that was both flavorful and fun for the class, but I can agree that it's been out for about 9 months how and KOP is basically the only game in town. I'm shocked everyone else's horse is crossing the finish line so late with kineticist content, but my sales numbers won't complain about being the only horse in the race.

And since I am a sham, please be sure to leave a review for either Kineticists of Porphyra or Kineticists of Porphyra II if you get the chance, as feedback is always helpful.


N. Jolly wrote:
As for kineticist archetypes for other class, I'm leaving that more on Mort, although I could probably round up a few. Originally I was staunchly against it, but I'm warming up to the idea of it now. Part of the reason for this was my apprehension on how I would include it in the guide, but I think that shouldn't be a determining factor as to why I do or don't write something.

Honestly, now wouldn't be a bad time to include it in your follow up.

Like I mentioned before, there is a matter of scope. KoP The Phantom Menace is a lot less material to eat through than when you started to add on KoP The Lost World and KoP Matrix Revolutions. Adding it up makes for more sense to release things that apply to other classes.


...I'd buy a book about options for Dinosaur Kineticists.


I just picked up both books. So that build I shot you the message about might be able to get a little more fleshed out soon.


Finally read through all of KOP1, and reread all the 3pp review sections of the guide with a better understanding of what the KOP1 stuff was. It's good material, I'm even more psyched to stat out a vibromancer now.

I do disagree with one small section of ratings in your guide. Chrono has a few substances that are very powerful, but limited due to the lack of AOE forms Chrono can use with them. I want to make sure your 3pp reviewer has adequately considered the potential for a flurry of dazing/sickened/staggered/enervated. Sure, damage is low... But if I hit 4 people (and don't forget haste is a thing I just kind of do) and none of them gets a full turn, I've just very effectively nuked a field for a full turn. I can hold them there for hours, dealing low damage and laughing as my party builds containment facilities around them and takes the prisoners home. Or, you know, kills the two that I couldn't tag and then starts in on the helpless dead men I'm holding. Or I'm dropping 4+ levels a round with enervation. Or any number of very powerful substances made mostly for single target elements while perhaps discounting the usefulness of a universal AOE effect.

Silver Crusade

pulseoptional wrote:
I just picked up both books. So that build I shot you the message about might be able to get a little more fleshed out soon.

Aces, I think with KOP 2 you'll actually have something to spend your gold on for that idea, although I still suggest altering the catfolk's racials to make them more adept. Really, I think just tossing on the advanced template would be enough, although the large template would actually be pretty nice for this too.

Shiroi wrote:
Finally read through all of KOP1, and reread all the 3pp review sections of the guide with a better understanding of what the KOP1 stuff was. It's good material, I'm even more psyched to stat out a vibromancer now.

God, I need to include more vibro material, it's such an ostentatious element that I think needs more love. Mort joked about doing a rock and roll element/archetype, and really, I think that'd be just perfect for something like this.

Quote:
I do disagree with one small section of ratings in your guide. Chrono has a few substances that are very powerful, but limited due to the lack of AOE forms Chrono can use with them. I want to make sure your 3pp reviewer has adequately considered the potential for a flurry of dazing/sickened/staggered/enervated. Sure, damage is low... But if I hit 4 people (and don't forget haste is a thing I just kind of do) and none of them gets a full turn, I've just very effectively nuked a field for a full turn. I can hold them there for hours, dealing low damage and laughing as my party builds containment facilities around them and takes the prisoners home. Or, you know, kills the two that I couldn't tag and then starts in on the helpless dead men I'm holding. Or I'm dropping 4+ levels a round with enervation. Or any number of very powerful substances made mostly for single target elements while perhaps discounting the usefulness of a universal AOE effect.

Hopefully Mort will weigh in on this (I did the reviews for KOP 2, but I'm entirely up for changing them as I am with the 1st party material), but I'd like to think this was something she considered. Flurry of blows with the incredible debuff options Time gets can be very nice though, but rarely are there 4+ valid targets. Mostly it's 1-2 genuine threats, and the rest are mooks that can be handled without much issue. I knew Time would be too good if it had a lot of great form infusions, which is my balance for that.

KOP 3 should give more options to the 3p elements, although it'll be hard coming up with more stuff for Poison.


Poison I haven't fully seen, so it's difficult to advise you there. Based on the reviews and guessing what I'll read when I get around to that, I feel like there are some limited options and you've hit plenty of them I'm sure. The following list may point out any small holes.

Every status effect in the game, in some level of burn or other, including sleep (drow poison) and paralyzed (ghoul poison). Some of the save or die might work as upgrades to other effects (x burn blast to inflict staggered, accept 1 Burn to attempt to turn your target to stone as well). Forcing a burn (not increasing the reducible cost of the infusion) helps make save or die spells against bosses less nasty.

All 6 stats worth of damage, as 2/hit or as 1/failed save over time. The best part about poisons is deciding how I want to kill you today.

DoT HP damage (acid and bleed) and DoT Nonlethal, because I should be able to use poisons to make you feel sick and pass out.

After that you've pretty much run out of options no matter how bad you want them, unless you come up with new status effects.
One interesting idea might be a blast that starts with dazzled and works up to perma blinded if they keep failing saves, and similar "it's only going to get worse for you" poisons. This is another way to bring big gun status effects without allowing a round 1 boss roflstomp.

A rock&roll archetype feels like that gimmicky character nobody takes in a serious game or they get groaned at and killed off early. I want it, it's awesome.

EDIT:

On more thought, part of the problem with poisons is there there are so many things that can be done in the nerf/alt damage method region that you don't have enough talent slots to get most of them. If you feel that some abilities aren't worth a whole talent for just by themselves, combining options isn't a bad choice.

Poisons dealing with damage to the three physical ability scores can be lumped into one infusion. "Choose a physical ability score. Your blast deals 2 damage to that ability score, fortitude for half (or negates depending on balance)".
Another one for mental scores. Now for only two talents, you have 6 different ways to kill.

The same goes for Shaken/Frightened/Panicked/Cowering/death effect.
It starts as a 1 Burn infusion, but for each additional burn you spend the hallucination gets worse until they're curled up crying. If you're already at 4 burn in the infusion cost and they fail the will save to become cowering, accept 1 point of burn to force a fort save as well as per phantasmal killer.

It's now a whole fear line of abilities scaling with your level until it becomes a common and particularly nasty SoD spell.


Shiroi wrote:
I do disagree with one small section of ratings in your guide. Chrono has a few substances that are very powerful, but limited due to the lack of AOE forms Chrono can use with them. I want to make sure your 3pp reviewer has adequately considered the potential for a flurry of dazing/sickened/staggered/enervated. Sure, damage is low... But if I hit 4 people (and don't forget haste is a thing I just kind of do) and none of them gets a full turn, I've just very effectively nuked a field for a full turn. I can hold them there for hours, dealing low damage and laughing as my party builds containment facilities around them and takes the prisoners home. Or, you know, kills the two that I couldn't tag and then starts in on the helpless dead men I'm holding. Or I'm dropping 4+ levels a round with enervation. Or any number of very powerful substances made mostly for single target elements while perhaps discounting the usefulness of a universal AOE effect.

Oh, yes, I tried to reflect this in fact with the overarching section on time talents.

Quote:
Time, one of the mythical elements. N. Jolly presents his idea of a temporal master, and it is very heavy into single target debuffs. The talents are fantastic. However, the sum of Time’s infusions is less than their parts. Time gets some awesome wild talents, and since they are rated individually they are treated as awesome. However, it lacks form infusions and all of the utility are fairly one note. The anti-synergy is strong and you will likely end up picking your favorites from talents such as Decelerate and Time Thief. Virtually all of your utility has a require burn version that’s usually far better than using the talent without burn. For utility, you seriously want to branch out. For blasting, KoP2 goes a long way towards fixing this problem if you don’t mind playing a Fusion Kineticist. Pretty much so long as you are paired with a good AoE element (fire) your blasting would be amazing.

You are absolutely correct, however it felt wrong to not rate them in a vacuum so I tried to present the facts. This is unfortunately one of the flaws with a rating system. One I tried to address with commentary. I could lower the rating on all of them a stage, but if this is an issue I feel making the disclaimer more visible for the individual talents more elegant.

Shiroi wrote:
A rock&roll archetype feels like that gimmicky character nobody takes in a serious game or they get groaned at and killed off early. I want it, it's awesome.

It's unfortunately a question of if I will have time. This is all at risk of being cut. But what's really nice is the current idea is a d20 Modern (Or with GM discretion) element in the vein of Scott Pilgrim with some cool changes for balance and theme build into the elemental focus and blasts that also encourages Overwhelming Soul and lets you treat an instrument as a free hand. The element in it's ideal state assumes you are an overwhelming soul, rather than the other way around.


Ha! That's basically the opposite direction I was going with it: I'd have rated those particularly nasty substances higher because Flurry can devastate a group with them. Action economy denial of a crowd at little to no personal cost is quite nice, I wouldn't lower the rating of any of then for sure.

Has anyone considered VMC kineticist options yet? It'd be far faster/easier than making a kineticist-esque archetype for every class, and it's one I and several friends have been chomping at the bit for. Fighter or rogue VMC Aero to gain some wind based mobility options and a ranged touch attack as a backup weapon would be sweet.


N. Jolly wrote:

This is a fair concern, which is why I did state I want to take this one slower. KOP 1 was literally just some homebrew that I showed Mark and he said 'let it ride', so I kept on adding more and more until it became Kineticists of Porphyra.

KOP 2 was my backlog of ideas that didn't make it into KOP 1, there was still a lot of things that I wanted to include but couldn't (although for the life of me, I don't know WHERE the word count went on that one.) It was a half finished book before I even started on it.

Isn't there some sort of page limit, that if gone above, it affects the price, or something like that?

Quote:
For KOP 3, this is actually all new content that wasn't a throwback to ideas I already had, which is why I'm polling the thread on what they want to see. I think things like ultimate intrigue and such are going to help shape ideas for this, put it isn't going to be shotgunned out like the last two, as it's being written from scratch.

Oh, so that's the plan ;)

Quote:

The thing is, people still REALLY want this content. Not necessarily just mine, but they want more kineticist content. The original class is very intriguing, but the very bare bones amount of content released for the base class is leaving most players very desperate for something new, which is really why I believe KOP 1 sold (and continues to sell) very well.

Even if I take a break on the content (I plan for KOP 3 to be the end unless something major comes up, like some new 1st party elements), the desire is going to be there, and at this point most people who are willing to allow 3p content trust KOP as a balanced product. Hell, a decent amount of the kineticist threads I see around here mention it when people are looking for new kineticist options.

Well...

1) People... kinda got fed up picking classes which had abilities with limited uses per day. I think it's a 3.5 stigma with the introduction of the Warlock; the Eldritch Blast really addressed a need for unlimited power.

2) The Kineticist, while based on Western fiction and characters with "uncontrollable" powers, resembles any elemental-using character based on Eastern fiction, mainly anime and manga... and of course, Avatar: The Last Airbender. The class covered a niche that MANY players wanted for years.

3) True, Occult Adevntures started with 5 elements, but Occult Origins added 2 more, leaving room for even more elements, again problably taking cues from fiction. BTW, there was a lot of content in OC, but only for the 5 primary elements.

4) Players like having choices and options, so... picking your booklets is a sign that your new rules are balanced and viable ;)

Quote:
As for kineticist archetypes for other class, I'm leaving that more on Mort, although I could probably round up a few. Originally I was staunchly against it, but I'm warming up to the idea of it now. Part of the reason for this was my apprehension on how I would include it in the guide, but I think that shouldn't be a determining factor as to why I do or don't write something.

Well... yit is always possible to add more stuff from previous categories, like more powers, feats, items and such. I don't think you're going to run out of ideas soon :P

Non-Kineticist archetypes are "missing in action" at the moment, so that's why people pointed it out. Oh yeah, one more thing: after Ultimate Intrigue comes out, you might get a few more ideas ;)

Quote:

I told Mort that this book will probably take around 2 months to come out, although that's if I really hammer it out, which is something I think I'm going to try to avoid doing this time, unlike with KOP 2 where I thought I was competing against other books to hit the market first. Kineticists of Porphyra has kind of proved itself as a product line by this point, and so I don't think I need to worry about the competition as much, giving me a lot more wiggle room in how long I can take with this one.

Like I said before, I really want to make this book more 'different' than the others, experiment a bit more with things. And that'll involve getting some eyes on the project which can help boost the time needed, since it's hard both getting content to people and getting their feedback in a timely manner. What I might do is post some previews of things in this thread, since really most people who'd check out this thread have picked up either KOP 1 or 2 and know what to expect, as well as what they want from a new book.

I'm really hoping to get people involved more, and I think giving updates and previews could help that along, although it will stop me from backing out of ideas that I'm not too keen on, which isn't the best thing for me. Let me know if anyone here would like to get previews on what's going on with KOP 3 and such, as well as more suggestions for what you'd like to have included.

Take all the time you need ^_^


The Mortonator wrote:
Actually, at this point it's more of a battle to keep me from writing too many archetypes. XD The ideas are overwhelming and the biggest feature of the book is such a massive undertaking in and of itself. I'm in fear of getting too tired to write both of the new elements I had planned. (Though Hellfire might be addressed by the biggest feature... which is NOT archetypes.)

I'll be honest with you: you can never have too many archetypes. Unlike Prestige Classes, they addresses specific playstyles and/or specific character backgrounds, while is ideal to build characters with unique designs. The more archetypes you have, the more choices you have... and it's not like they are restrictive or anything...

BTW, I mentionned "Prestige Classes"... I'm sorry if that sparked inspiration as well XDDD Truth be told though, PrCs for Kineticists could be nice to have. However... you should probably stick with archetypes, considering that they are more popular :P


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JiCi wrote:
Isn't there some sort of page limit, that if gone above, it affects the price, or something like that?

We tend to work at suggested word counts. I like to keep books in a series at roughly the same size. N. Jolly has been good at abiding that and thus the price point is able to ride out at the same point.

If you look at my pesky Drow of Porphyra series, the word count keep climbing on each book which messed up my economics and thus the price scales a bit.

There is not "one formula" for these types of things either. I can charge more for DCC than I can for Pathfinder-related products. Its all a bit of black magic.

Hopefully, whatever we are selling eventually breaks even and we are able to do more.

So far out of N. Jolly's work for us:

- Both KoP and KoP2 have broken even.
- Both Chi Warrior and the Kinetictist Codex is stupidly close to breaking even.
- Legendary Classes: Eternal Mage has just started its sale journey.
- The Alchemist Codex lags behind. Its been out almost a month I think and it will likely be eclipsed by the Eternal Mage soon in sales.

So things on the break even list for N. Jolly's work is actually going quite well.


JiCi wrote:
BTW, I mentionned "Prestige Classes"... I'm sorry if that sparked inspiration as well XDDD Truth be told though, PrCs for Kineticists could be nice to have. However... you should probably stick with archetypes, considering that they are more popular :P

You are far too late on that front friend... PrCs were one of the first thing I leaped on. Unfortunately, the one I was really in love with has too much math too ever make it to print as is. It's a pet project that needs too heavy a facelift and will sit in cut content unless I have a brain wave or have finished the book and make a second PDF. I actually favor PrCs over archetypes for a lot of concepts. But some are just done better as an archetype as I'm sure N. Jolly will agree one of my favorite archetypes that started as a PrC.

And I agree that tons of Archetypes is a good thing. But there is a limit to how many one person can write. Especially when there is a section that adresses something far more important to Kineticists as a whole. (Tease it...) And also a focus on filling in more gaps for all Kineticists I believe exist presently. (Such as wysp familiars.) Regardless, the current count is... Around 7 that are well outlined. For Kineticist. One well outlined for another class and many more besides.

Silver Crusade

To respond to everyone:

@Shiroi
There are some ideas I have, but we've already got damage against all the physical stats and wisdom, not a lot more I can do in that respect. Psychotropic even had a secondary effect to help keep it from feeling too samey.

Statuses I'm trying to keep more spread out, although I could probably play around with those more.

@JiCi
Mark explains a lot of this in his post, at least about the business end. I'm just a humble and handsome writer.

I am glad that you as well as others are enjoying KOP, the thread about the most popular 3P products actually noted that KOP 1 was finally breaking into that (obviously subjective) list. Seeing things like that is always heartening.

I don't think I'll be running out of ideas as a whole, but I also realize that if I'm not making things people want, I'm not doing a good job as a content provider. KOP 1 was a lot of my own ideas, KOP 2 was a lot more shared ideas, and I think I want to work to make sure that KOP 3 carries on as something people want because it's what they're looking for in a product.

@Mark
Mark has seriously been great about letting me do my own thing, although he provides valuable commentary when it's needed (him and Perry both), which I think has helped make this series even better than it started. I've been learning a lot about how to format my stuff and make a more professional appearance, and I think it shows.

I mean the edit run of KOP 1 was huge (which a lot of that was on me for being a bit more lazy than I should have been, but to my defense I didn't expect it to seriously blow up the way that it had), but Mark can attest that the edit run of KOP 2 was a drop in the bucket with minor formatting changes and slight ruling edits that helped the product. Seriously, Mark and Perry deserve so much credit for help making this a succesful line.

@Mort
If you're not doing rock and roll, I might end up doing something goofy with it for a 'secret' project.

I think you and I talked about trying to bring back prestige classes. I personally would like to include a few more, but at this point the newer players don't really 'get' them. I think there's still design space to be played with there, but damn if it won't confuse some youngsters popping into the game.

I think I'll be doing archetypes over prestige classes myself, but it would be fun to see about working one into a game.


N. Jolly wrote:

@Mort

If you're not doing rock and roll, I might end up doing something goofy with it for a 'secret' project.

It's one of the things I hope won't end up cut the most. I might actually delay the book past finishing the other sections for that one thing, which I can't say for most of the non-highlights.

Or, possibly it and the PrC I mentioned could have their own little separate PDF of fun awesome sauce things. However, I am curious what your take on Rock 'n Roll would be like. Mostly likely it would have less references than mine because I'm pretty sure I have not outlined a concept that isn't a reference.


The Mortonator wrote:
You are far too late on that front friend... PrCs were one of the first thing I leaped on. Unfortunately, the one I was really in love with has too much math too ever make it to print as is. It's a pet project that needs too heavy a facelift and will sit in cut content unless I have a brain wave or have finished the book and make a second PDF. I actually favor PrCs over archetypes for a lot of concepts. But some are just done better as an archetype as I'm sure N. Jolly will agree one of my favorite archetypes that started as a PrC.

Oh boy... we'll save our arguments about the "PrCs vs Archetypes" debate on other topics... That can get ugly pretty quick... I personally just say this that archetypes are better streamlined and far less restrictive than PrCs. I kinda got fed up dealing with silly/expensive requirements, halted/slowed class feature progressions and builds that often lead to one-trick ponies...

Quote:
And I agree that tons of Archetypes is a good thing. But there is a limit to how many one person can write. Especially when there is a section that adresses something far more important to Kineticists as a whole. (Tease it...) And also a focus on filling in more gaps for all Kineticists I believe exist presently. (Such as wysp familiars.) Regardless, the current count is... Around 7 that are well outlined. For Kineticist. One well outlined for another class and many more besides.

That one can write? Sure, it's easy to understand, it's all about content and evening it out. I'm not asking about a huge booklet with kineticist archetypes :P A well-written section will suffice ^_^

BTW, if you have 7 archetypes in the making, pick 4 for KoP3 and 3 for KoP4. That'll spread the content nicely.


JiCi wrote:
I kinda got fed up dealing with silly/expensive requirements, halted/slowed class feature progressions and builds that often lead to one-trick ponies...

See, to me that is a failing of bad design. Not anything to do with whether the system itself is bad. I believe if more Devs studied the rules Paizo laid out for archetypes and applied them to PrCs they would be more interesting. (No frontloading. Try to give equivalent to what you take, and keep in mind prerequisites are being taken. Ect.) Honestly, PrCs written without looking at the base classes are a bane on design. Very few archetypes are written as carelessly as most PrCs.

JiCi wrote:
BTW, if you have 7 archetypes in the making, pick 4 for KoP3 and 3 for KoP4. That'll spread the content nicely.

Ah, no, I am not with Purple Duck Games. Merely going off topic because it seems early to post a seperate thread and N. Jolly is being very generous. It is my own creation that will be more akin to KoP Complete in scope.


You know, I think we've gone over the better kineticist gestalt builds way back but it's been a long time with a lot of new content since then. I'm curious what all could be done with new Kineticist stuff and Gestalt. Like a poison focused rogue/investigator/alchemist gestalt poison kineticist. Make the poison, augment the poison from two different class features, kill things with it. Sounds like it could be quite nasty if you can find things that stack correctly, especially with Ability Focus and a few other feats to boost your DCs.


I'm watching Young Justice: Invasion and the fight between Red Volcano and Blue Beetle has me really liking the idea of a tech-based Kineticist archetype.


It'd be pretty campaign specific, a lot like Wood it would either work or it wouldn't.

I could see Electric and Piercing as the two basic blasts, for a stun gun and rail gun feel. The composite would be Gauss Cannon, electric and piercing damage that included a form infusion no other blast could use. Something like using the Impaling form, except instead it makes sunder and damage rolls for half damage with no attack roll and a fort for 1/4 saving throw in a straight line for 100', unstoppable except by force effects it fails to sunder. Other failed sunders just mean it didn't do enough damage passing through to make it collapse on the way out. I'm 50/50 on the fort for 1/4.

It could focus on party buffs similarly to sound by using nanite swarms, self buffs similar to corpo using implant tech, and maybe use the alchemist discovery where you surgically install a cranial bomb and send someone on an unknowing and terrified suicide run.

Then various tech based utility skills, including one or two that "upgrade" existing things like catapults to tech usable with the other utilities.

Silver Crusade

Azten wrote:
I'm watching Young Justice: Invasion and the fight between Red Volcano and Blue Beetle has me really liking the idea of a tech-based Kineticist archetype.

What a good show that is.

I like the idea behind it, but I fear it's just too niche at this point. Tech is such a polarizing thing, so it's hard to decide if even now it's something worth delving into. I did have ideas for making metal more comprehensive, so it could see its way into things depending on how development goes.

I can't see doing tech as its own element, at most I think I could work with it as an archetype, which would see a much higher chance of being finished. Maybe something with more of a metal focus...


I would second archetype.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe mix it up with some occultist implements, each kinetic blast or utility wild talent requiring a different gadget/implement, while infusions could be different modes? I guess the main question is if you would want traditional burn, perhaps flavored as the devices overheating and damaging you, or something else altogether, like dealing damage to the implements and risking them burning out for the day and be unable to be used anymore until you can fix them up when you get time to rest...well, just a random notion as to how that might work...


I could see an archetype for sure, messing with how guns work, emphasis on metal blast.


N. Jolly wrote:
Tech is such a polarizing thing.

Not within the Advent Imperiax.

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