Game pacing issues, what can a player do?


Advice

Grand Lodge

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So there is a discussion going on in the GM area about how to pace a game as the GM. My brother and I spent some time talking about it and while we thought the majority of the onus of pacing was on the GM, there are a number of things players can do to help. We decided to throw together a blog on things we've done or seen help people play more efficiently. Hopefully one or more of these ideas can help your gamedays run smoother. Let us know what you think or if there is anything we missed.

Efficient Play Blog Post

Grand Lodge

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Have the spell your about to cast pulled up in case the GM wants to read it.
Same thing with using unusual items or abilities.

Have the players write their initiative on the map too, that way they know who is coming up next. Most GMs track initiative, many behind a screen. This way everyone can see where they are...

Use a small tent with your character's name and your perception modifier on it.

Many GMs want to roll find traps for the players, etc....and it helps get into role playing by calling characters by their names.

Sovereign Court

Joe: nice work.

I think the most efficient initiative tracking I've seen was a GM who had a magnetic strip attached to the outside of his screen, and he'd put initiative slips on there, so all the players could see the initiative order.

Oddly enough, the GM is the only one who can't directly see them. Personally when I GM I don't mind that, it helps me separate monster planning from GM planning, ensures I don't metagame against players too much :P

Something else I recently saw which blew my mind with its simplicity: using a javascript/html page to track your standard buffs. Just write a page with your base numbers and checkboxes to activate the stuff you usually get (haste, heroism, mutagen etc.), and let it calculate your to-hit, AC and damage.

Sure, you can use Herolab, but this is free, and you can restrict it to only the stuff you actually use.

Grand Lodge

Mike Eckrich wrote:


Have the players write their initiative on the map too, that way they know who is coming up next. Most GMs track initiative, many behind a screen. This way everyone can see where they are...

Use a small tent with your character's name and your perception modifier on it.

Many GMs want to roll find traps for the players, etc....and it helps get into role playing by calling characters by their names.

The unusual abilities and spells probably we'll add to the list.

The other three I think all fall onto the GMs responsibility. Almost every GM has a different way that works for them for initiative tracking (but honestly after 1 round it's not hard to know who you go after). GMs rolling for traps and such is on them, and the RP has nothing to do with efficiency in and of itself. I personally am not a fan of table tents in most gaming situations as I feel they get in the way more often than they are helpful, if people want to use them go ahead but I certainly won't make anyone. I do however ask for people's perception mods at the beginning of the session.

Paying attention to initiative order we'll probably also add, but in a slightly different way.

Grand Lodge

Ascalaphus wrote:

Joe: nice work.

I think the most efficient initiative tracking I've seen was a GM who had a magnetic strip attached to the outside of his screen, and he'd put initiative slips on there, so all the players could see the initiative order.

Oddly enough, the GM is the only one who can't directly see them. Personally when I GM I don't mind that, it helps me separate monster planning from GM planning, ensures I don't metagame against players too much :P

Something else I recently saw which blew my mind with its simplicity: using a javascript/html page to track your standard buffs. Just write a page with your base numbers and checkboxes to activate the stuff you usually get (haste, heroism, mutagen etc.), and let it calculate your to-hit, AC and damage.

I honestly prefer grouping players for initiative. When a bunch are in a cluster, let them all go in the order they want, they could have delayed for each other anyway. If they want to delay/ready further than a monster then they fall into the next group. But I only do it for players I'm familiar with otherwise it tends to confuse people. (It actually runs faster once people get used to doing it.) For perceptions I like taking peoples modifier and assuming they are always taking 10 to glance about (unless there is a mitigating factor), but if you want to make a more thorough search like checking out the desk in the corner I have them roll. These both speed up the game, but seem to fall more on the GM side than the player side.

I once built an Excel sheet (kind of a bare bones YAPCG - Yet Another Pathfinder Character Generator) that you could update with conditional mods and it would do the calculations for you, but over time I've come to appreciate doing it old school, as I tend to find more engaged players with higher system mastery. Just a gut feeling. I know for some people it's incredibly helpful.

Thank you both for your feed back.

Silver Crusade

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Cutting back on random conversations not related to the table at hand. While I like to hear about other characters and fun moments, I would much rather any talk of "Oh yeah, there was this one time my other character..." be reserved for before or after the scenario, or during a break.

+1 to the having spells and special abilities pulled up and ready for when a GM has to ask what it does. Actual conversation at a table I was at:

Player: I cast X.

GM: Alright, sounds good, what does X do?

Player: ...(minutes of silence as he searches for the spell)

GM: Okay, you can have the benefits of the spell as soon as you can show me what it does. Moving on, V, you're up.

Grand Lodge

UndeadMitch wrote:

Cutting back on random conversations not related to the table at hand. While I like to hear about other characters and fun moments, I would much rather any talk of "Oh yeah, there was this one time my other character..." be reserved for before or after the scenario, or during a break.

I feel that is part of the being present at the table section - which we edited a couple times so as not to come off as a personal attack on anyone. We weren't attempting to attack anyone it just seemed to apply easily and so we reworked it a couple times.

Quote:


+1 to the having spells and special abilities pulled up and ready for when a GM has to ask what it does. Actual conversation at a table I was at:

Player: I cast X.

GM: Alright, sounds good, what does X do?

Player: ...(minutes of silence as he searches for the spell)

GM: Okay, you can have the benefits of the spell as soon as you can show me what it does. Moving on, V, you're up.

I'd imagine as soon as my brother wakes up we'll get something along these lines added. It's a really good idea I just hadn't thought of as I was writing out long lists of things.

Sovereign Court

Sidetreks in the conversation in the vein of "that one time... " and "last scenario, when ..." happen a lot. To some degree it's a sign of people enjoying their time together and sharing war stories, which is important. But of course it shouldn't get out of hand either.

How to handle it should also depend on timing. The middle of combat, or (worse!) the middle of a conversation with an NPC, is bad timing. In that case it's best to cut people off immediately. If it happens in between scenes, it's okay to let it run on for a few minutes. In all cases, nudging people back onto the present matter should be done in a friendly manner.

Another distraction I'm often guilty of: in the middle of combat, a "do you have X prepared? You don't know what X is? X could be awesome for your character" thing.

It's probably better to make a note and discuss X later.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Out-Of-Combat:

- Try to make your decisions quickly
- Don't spend time on small, fiddly things (like roleplaying with the town guard). It's fun to do that, but it shouldn't get super drawn out.
- Provide your GM with an overview of your character while waiting for people to show up, especially if you need GM support/adjudication (ie, intimidate builds, sunder monkeys, that sort of thing. As a GM, I know those rules, but if you handed me a weapon hardness table I'd be much quicker at it.)
- Take notes so that way you don't have to backtrack to do something you've missed or spend a few minutes figuring out which noble you need to talk to.

In-Combat:

- Roll your dice and your damage at the same time.
- Try to make your decisions quickly, both in and out of character.
- Plan your turn during other player's turn
- If you use something consistently, make a "cheat sheet" or similar thing. For example, I have a note card with the improved feint rules I keep on hand to hand to my GM when I'm playing my halfling opportunist. I have AoE templates I made myself for when I'm playing my evoker. That sort of thing.


Great post; I've shared it to my Lodge.

One thing I have noticed is that sometimes a PC may be great on rules and the paper build, but then not be able to decide what to actually *do* when their turn comes up. One thing that might be useful is to have a list of "What to do instead of delay" for that first round or two. Talk to the bad guys, bless, ready to disrupt spellcasting, is all better than delaying. Delay is supposed t be so you can coordinate your attacks with your colleagues, not just to avoid having to make a decision. Do something useful every round. A decent action now is almost always better than the perfect action too late.


stay fit
keep sharp
make good decisions

Shadow Lodge

Here's one. I am all for interesting characters. I make a point to make my characters memorable. But I have one character that, too often when I play him he is distracting to the group because of some other players reaction to the concept and some gms have acted.....weird. Also, he has some balance issues as a summoner and that are not addressed with the unchained revision.

Spoiler:
Concept is Summoner/eidolon husband wife. She is skill monkey 10 int/ w perception sense motive stealth maxed. He is played like a master summoner only without the archetype. Have their twin daughters as herald/scholar vanities.

So I'm removing him from my regularly played characters. I'll still bring him out among the right company, but I'll choose carefully (I love him) and ditching an idea for a sequel character based off the vanities.

Sovereign Court

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PAY. ATTENTION. WHEN. THE. GM. IS. READING. BOX. TEXT.

Silver Crusade

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+1 to always doing something as a player unless you have a good reason to delay (like waiting until after the wizard hastes the party before marching off to melee, etc.). Do the right thing. If you can't do the right thing do the wrong thing, and if you can't do the wrong thing then at least do something. It's a lot better to go down swinging than to get struck out looking.

Dark Archive

UndeadMitch wrote:

Cutting back on random conversations not related to the table at hand. While I like to hear about other characters and fun moments, I would much rather any talk of "Oh yeah, there was this one time my other character..." be reserved for before or after the scenario, or during a break.

+1 to the having spells and special abilities pulled up and ready for when a GM has to ask what it does. Actual conversation at a table I was at:

Player: I cast X.

GM: Alright, sounds good, what does X do?

Player: ...(minutes of silence as he searches for the spell)

GM: Okay, you can have the benefits of the spell as soon as you can show me what it does. Moving on, V, you're up.

This! This is why I print off an abilities/equipment sheet(s) as well as having my feats, class abilities, and so forth summarized on my char sheet. That way I have a quick reference point for my abilities. need to know exactly what my Elemental Flurry ability does? I got that info on hand, no need to hunt it down in the book.


Roll then math. Roll then math...

last night "Ok, i have +1 from this + one from that, add in the bless the other thing the flank...

"Roll then math...

Nat 20.

Math problem solved!

If his ac is 25ish, "Ac 30 something hit?" is close enough for state work.

Dark Archive

I try to do any math before it's even my turn. You know, figure this stuff while deciding what I'll do. Speeds things up a bit. Course I also typically use Hero Lab to run my character. Thus can just check something as active and it auto calculates.

Vigilant Seal

this is more of a gripe than advice but, the one that always gets on me are the players who talk while the DM is reading descriptions or conversations. I understand you may not have something to add but just shut it.

Also make sure to know the turn order and when your turn is coming up. the DM shouldn't need to tell you when your turn is coming up. know the initiative order.

and last, make sure everyone is getting some spotlight. if a player just did something awesome or really saved the party, don't try to one-up them with a story or attention grabbing moment. Let everyone have their "Hero minute".

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