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Well let's do it this way then.
So now the example of benefit penalty is:
Brave 12
+1 Attack
+1 Damage
-1 AC
Faith 12
+1 Spells DC
+1 Attacks to deliver spells (ranged touch attacks or melee touch attacks)
-1 Save DC vs. spells
Looks fair enough
In the "negatives"
Brave 9
-1 Attack
-1 Damage
+1 AC
Faith 9
-1 Spells DC
-1 Attacks to deliver spells
+1 Save DC vs. spells
This sounds better and balanced then?
Yep no problems with that. There is give and take both ways.
Heh. I was going to comment on the Brave thing too, maybe suggest lowering Initiative.
This looks good too.
Might have to take reach to keep myself safe. -2 and no shield make a squishy fighter.
Does that -2 apply to flatflooted and touch AC as well? It'sl looking like spellcasters will eat my face unless I can get the proverbial drop on them.
Until level 6 or so, when I can literally drop on them.
For fighters, you are probably right. Not every character is a fighter, though. Like I said above, especially for hybrid characters like Templar and the like they are hurt badly by the skill decreases. It hardly would hurt a fighter. However, they take a penalty inside AND outside of combat and only benefit within combat.
This also lends to magic users being much more powerful inside and outside of combat (bonus to skills outside and AC in combat).
That is why I mentioned trade off -1 AC for +1 Attack/Damage. I never said anything about dropping the AC penalty, just the skill ones. Both penalty and bonus occur in combat this way.
Your examples fit but there just as many where it doesn't. A brave character shouldn't really be less intimidating or less diplomatic. They also probably shouldn't make him outright more stupid (knowledge skills). It shouldn't affect how good you are at a given profession either...nor how good you are at healing. Perhaps it shouldn't influence every charisma, wisdom, and intelligence skill I guess is my point.
This will probably be clearer if I give an example. Here is Alaire, assuming I gave him a 12 Bravery.
Gains:
+1 Hit
+1 DamageNegatives:
-1 AC
-1 Diplomacy
-1 Heal
-1 Intimidate
-1 Knowledge (Religion)
-1 Knowledge (Nobility)
-1 Knowledge (History)
-1 Profession
-1 Sense Motive
-1 SpellcraftThat is just counting the skills he has training in. There is also craft, disguise, handle animal, perform, perception, use magic device, etc all of which take a penalty.
I think I'll swap my 14 to a 10, so my bravery doesn't get all confusing. Also I don't want to mess up all my skills :( Ki pool is charisma mod + 1/2 ninja level I think. So 4 right now I think.
Also: Will pack animals be available?
Bah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to retract my application adn apologize. My timing on joining a new game was terrible I'm currently in the process of writing a book, polishing my cleric guide and writing a new one. This on top of other matters plus the other games I already participate in make thing a little tricky. Again apologies but this does free up people who wanted to play a paladin to do so and take the zodiac which I could tell was quite good.
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I'm still having some issues with how brave and faith work. I understand how it worked in the game series, though it was only used in FFT. I think it offer's too many penalties, unless this going to be a strictly combat game, even still skills are useful in combat.
I would not trade an attack bonus for all those penalties. Magic, and enhancments more than make up for it. Faith increasing DCs and decreasing Saves turns spells in to rocket tag even earlier.
Brave to have a focus on gameplay without taking away from the non combat aspects can apply to CMB & CMD and maybe yield bonus HP
10 Brave = +0 CMB, +0 CMD, +1HP
15 Brave = +0 CMB, +1 CMD, +2HP
20 Brave = +1 CMB, +1 CMD, +3HP
25 Brave = +1 CMB, +1 CMB, +4HP
and so on..
I think if you want to have faith work like it does in the game treat it like having empowered magic in effect at all times
10 Faith = 1.0 multiplier
15 Faith = 1.20 mulitplier
20 Faith = 1.40 multiplier
and so on...
Brave and Faith still have an impact on combat and spells, but add to the game and not take from it. That's my two-cents though.
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Bah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to retract my application adn apologize. My timing on joining a new game was terrible I'm currently in the process of writing a book, polishing my cleric guide and writing a new one. This on top of other matters plus the other games I already participate in make thing a little tricky. Again apologies but this does free up people who wanted to play a paladin to do so and take the zodiac which I could tell was quite good.
No problem at all mate I understand you completely ^^
Well gentlemen we can still go on like this rest finish up characters nobody is forced to play something they don't want to if yo are all fighter I accommodate to that ^^ or anything the party comes of with as characters.
Love to read the book when you finish it ^^
Deylon if the method we have doesn't work (as no more skill bonus or penalties) we give it a go to your version ^^ and see what works and stuff after all it's a playtest and I welcome all suggestions.
I have opened the OOC thread just have no idea how to link stuff yet that well the name is Final Fantasy Tactics OOC
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Bah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to retract my application adn apologize. My timing on joining a new game was terrible I'm currently in the process of writing a book, polishing my cleric guide and writing a new one. This on top of other matters plus the other games I already participate in make thing a little tricky. Again apologies but this does free up people who wanted to play a paladin to do so and take the zodiac which I could tell was quite good.No problem at all mate I understand you completely ^^
Well gentlemen we can still go on like this rest finish up characters nobody is forced to play something they don't want to if yo are all fighter I accommodate to that ^^ or anything the party comes of with as characters.
Love to read the book when you finish it ^^
Deylon if the method we have doesn't work (as no more skill bonus or penalties) we give it a go to your version ^^ and see what works and stuff after all it's a playtest and I welcome all suggestions.
I have opened the OOC thread just have no idea how to link stuff yet that well the name is Final Fantasy Tactics OOC
no problem. Not trying to backseat DM, but just offering ideas. You may want to consider class bonuses and penalties to Brave and Faith based type, archetype and such. IE clerics should have haigher faith and barbarians should have higher Brave...food for though.
I should have him finished up tomorrow or Monday at the latest. Just have to polish up his description and backstory (and work a bit more out with Zen in the meantime).
I think Brave and Faith should be alright with the changes he already added. The big thing was the nailing of skills I think. +1 to hit and damage in exchange for a point of AC isn't too bad. Faith seems fine to me too.
I do think it would be too much of a pain trying to multiply all your spells by 1.2 or whatever though...not to mention that might get a bit killer especially in higher levels. Free empowering essentially? Ouch.
I should be finished tomorrow evening hopefully.
Would the pack animal cost the same as a similarily sized pack animal? (Just checking so I know how much gold to set aside for food and whatnot.)
I just need a story and maybe fine-tune some equipment.
Of course I pick the weekend I'm moving in to a new apartment to join a game :P. Apologies if I'm late. I should have something up on time, at least. Can't promise a good or fleshed-out something, but something.
Y'know, I almost don't need Power Attack with a good Brave. Stacking the two is pleasingly gross though.
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I just need a story and maybe fine-tune some equipment.
Of course I pick the weekend I'm moving in to a new apartment to join a game :P. Apologies if I'm late. I should have something up on time, at least. Can't promise a good or fleshed-out something, but something.
Y'know, I almost don't need Power Attack with a good Brave. Stacking the two is pleasingly gross though.
No problem mate!
Alaire's tenative bio/description is complete and available for viewing.
Warning: The prior is pretty long since I wanted to fill in some family history and such.
I say tenative because I need to confirm a few more things with Zerig's player after work and make sure that all works for him and our stories mesh. I also add a couple more minor details I missed here and there.
*perk!*
Test week, however. Give me a few days to look through the posts and the thread, and I've got some availability.
Hrm.. looks like I got beat to the punch by three. I'll take a pass until another hole opens up, I guess.
Nah, I'll just lurk about some more. Six people and up is more than I prefer to have in an online game. I don't want to complicate things more.
Archmochi at AOL
Did you say two spots?
Woohoo!Um...crud.What classes are available again?
What would Mime class be? Also leaning towards Chemist,what with chucking potions at allies.: )
Hmmm.Cool.Chemist it is.Knives and guns and chucking potions to help.