Scrolls, Use Magic Device; Caster Level Check?

[Ascalaphus]

So since my alchemist is up to UMD 19ish by now depending on gear purchases, I figured I should branch out into scrolls a bit.

Now, to do that I need to use UMD to fake having the spell on my list, since I can't normally use scrolls. Fine, that's what I've got the skill for.

So I've got Int 23 so that's not a problem. Suppose I make the DC 21 UMD check to use a level 1 wizard spell.

Do I still need to make a caster level check, since I don't have a wizard caster level? Or was the UMD check sufficient?

[Ascalaphus]

*bump*

[Brf]

According to the table, "using a scroll" is a DC of 20+caster level.
That is the only check you need to make.

[Rub-Eta]

I'm a bit confused as to why you'd need a caster level check. It seems as if the UMD check is enough.

[Archaeik]

UMD wrote:

Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.

UMD wrote:

Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

This is a tough call, kinda...

Those DC's are "equal", so ostensibly, the Scroll DC is an "emulate class feature" use of UMD that also gives you a caster level.

I'd say if you make the scroll check, you're good to activate without a CL check.

The real question is:
If I use UMD to emulate the Spells class feature, and my result gives me a Caster Level lower than the scroll I want to activate, may I make a CL check to activate the scroll instead of using the UMD:Scroll DC?

ps: I'd answer yes.

[Brf]

But Specific trumps General.
The chart gives you a specific DC to use for Scrolls and Wands, so you should be using those DCs.

[Archaeik]

The problem is that the Scroll entry doesn't expressly mention anything about granting a caster level, only using it "as if you had it on your class spell list"...

If you are a non-caster, you don't have a caster level, and would need to account for that separately... (this is why I say, RAI, the check is a disguised emulate feature check)

Scrolls wrote:

Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
  
• The user must have the spell on her class list.
  
• The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Activating a scroll is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and it provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

UMD:Scroll only accounts for bullet points 1 and 2 (2 expressly, and 1 implicitly by virtue of putting the spell on your list). 3, it indicates must be rolled separately, so it can be inferred that if the single check doesn't grant every requisite component, you must account for it somehow; CL falls into this category RAW.

Further evidence is supplied by the Wand DC, which is also equivalent to emulating the Spells class feature with a CL of "zero" (which is all you need to activate a wand).