How OP is one Mythic rank?


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne right now. At the end of book two after going through a dungeon full of encounters they fight the BBEG. After they defeat her her god resurrects her with full hp and new powers.

Now the book says that the reward for this is the experiance and how epic surviving an encounter like this. However I think it deserves something more. They'll be close to eighth level when they finish. I just don't know if giving them a mythic point is too much. I want to reward them. I just don't want to break their characters.

Thanks!!

Dark Archive

Expect to have to scale the difficulty of most subsequent encounters. Mythic characters, even rank one, pack a hell of a punch as long as they have some mythic power left. Even without points left, their choice of mythic feat can continue to amplify their original strength.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Expect to Add about +1 to CR. The main issue is really that the Cleric and Wizard now have immediate access to every spell on their list at any time they want for just one MP


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I've been doing E8/P8 mythic and running Reign of Winter. So the party of 6 capped at level 8, and they received 1 mythic tier when they were supposed to get to level 11. They still have 1 tier and are tackling the end of book 5, with CR 14 encounters, and handling everything admirably, and even blowing certain encounters out of the water.

Mythic tiers are guano nuts. I've run CotCT to completion twice now: I wouldn't recommend a mythic tier right now unless you want to buff every encounter from here on out with mythic templates. Mythic is that nuts; it's actually mythic. If you want a tier, I'd recommend

Spoiler:
something after book 4's ruins and the star chart. Or after Cindermaw.

Edit: For seriously. Mythic is crazy. Adding +1 CR doesn't really do it justice. Swift action free access to any spell on your class spell list at CL +2 is an enormous amount of utility. Moving and making an attack during the move, as a swift action, is also great. And Mythic Surges can turn almost guarantee that if something needs to happen, it'll happen. My parties usually end CotCT around level 14 and handle it perfectly well; it'll need some serious amping up to be a challenge if the players get tiers.

Liberty's Edge

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Dang. I haven't really looked over the mythic rules yet. But I'm glad I asked. I'll figure somethimg else out to give the party. Maybe a hardy handshake.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

One idea I had was giving the PCs temporary mythic power. Maybe they gain a god's favor and the god offers to grant them power for 24 hours.


Puna'chong wrote:
Swift action free access to any spell on your class spell list at CL +2 is an enormous amount of utility.

This was FAQ'ed to a standard action for Wild Arcana and Inspired Spell. It's still extremely powerful, but not absolutely broken.

Scarab Sages

Even a single Mythic Feat can be nuts, even when it's for a lower tier martial. Mythic Vital Strike is better than pounce. Mythic Weapon Finesse is what every finesse build wishes it had.


I really like mythic, but mythic characters are ascendant demigods, and you'll have to keep that in mind for later balancing.

You absolutely shouldn't do it if you're not familiar with the rules.

Mythic's a hell of a power amplifier, and you'll be sad if the enemies aren't really up to challenging that.

Mild CotCT spoilers:
Heh. I'd probably make no adjustments at all to book 3, allowing the PCs to revel in their newfound superpowers (and probably crush Bahor!), and then have mythic opponents start appearing from Book 4 onwards (like Cindermaw; especially Cindermaw, or any of the Scarwall Anchors, or Ileosa and her top lieutenants).

You WILL need to adjust the AP if you don't want it to be a cakewalk after granting the PCs mythic.

Dark Archive

It seems like you understand the gist of things, but just to give you an anecdote:

I play a witch in a Reign of Winter campaign. We have one mythic tier.

I can, as a swift action for 2 of my 5 daily mythic points, cast accursed glare (normally a 1 round cast) without expending a spell slot. I target two foes (instead of one). If the foes lack mythic tiers, they roll twice and take the lower die roll. If they have spell resistance, I get to roll twice and take the higher die roll at +1.

Accursed glare is a days/level reroll and take the lower. It makes for a genuinely devastating effect since I can follow up with my standard action, casting save or suck spells like suffocation, feeblemind, phantasmal killer, wandering star motes, flesh to stone, eyebite, or magic jar. Mythic lives up to its name.

Liberty's Edge

Cryad, that's an idea. I could give them a temporary mythic tier. Something that whenever they use it it's gone for good. But they'll have the option of when to use it.


UnboltedAKTION wrote:
Dang. I haven't really looked over the mythic rules yet. But I'm glad I asked. I'll figure somethimg else out to give the party. Maybe a hardy handshake.

And a laurel.


UnboltedAKTION wrote:
Cryad, that's an idea. I could give them a temporary mythic tier. Something that whenever they use it it's gone for good. But they'll have the option of when to use it.

Hero Points also work.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Our GM gave us a mythic tier after we beat scarwall. In the hands of any player who knows what he's doing, one rank of mythic (even a temporary one) is more than enough to tear any nonmythic campaign wide open. if they aren't familiar with the potential it holds, you may be fine as they'll do a few neat things with their characters but won't actually impact much.


This one will vary hugely depending on the party, level of optimization, and direction of various characters. In the hands of serious power gamers even a single mythic tier can be monstrous across a limited number of encounters. In the hands of the average party? Far less so.

Is your party already smashing encounters? Are they very mechanically skilled? Do they visit these forums or others? If so I'd lean against it. If, on the other hand, they are more beer and pretzel type guys I suspect the actual problems will be marginal.


Peter Stewart wrote:

This one will vary hugely depending on the party, level of optimization, and direction of various characters. In the hands of serious power gamers even a single mythic tier can be monstrous across a limited number of encounters. In the hands of the average party? Far less so.

Is your party already smashing encounters? Are they very mechanically skilled? Do they visit these forums or others? If so I'd lean against it. If, on the other hand, they are more beer and pretzel type guys I suspect the actual problems will be marginal.

I should point out that if one of the beer and pretzel guys stumbles on Mythic Vital Strike then you are even more screwed than with an optimized party, because at least with the power gamers everyone is roughly on the same level of uber-OP instead of just one.

That's how mythic goes. There are a bunch of feats that would be fine at level 1, and there are a bunch that are wildly OP. Optimizers are just more likely to pick up the OP ones, while you still run the risk of a complete beginner stumbling onto an absurdly powerful mechanic that thrusts them far ahead of the other party members.


Think about that mythic power. Even with a single mythic tier, they get to use that 5 times per day. That's a pretty hefty bonus right there even they use it just to get +1d6 on 5 d20 rolls each day. Add to the other abilities that could be driven by mythic power and you've got a pretty big boost.


Just give them a mythic point instead of a whole mythic tier. This way they can do some cool superhuman stuff but shouldn't actually break anything.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The option to grant them a mythic tier temporarily is a pretty good one. You might want to grant them the full whack of a single mythic tier, but warn them that they can't recover mythic power, and that once each of them has used all of their mythic power, they lose the tier. Or give the entire party a single pool of mythic power with the same restriction.

And consider using Legendary Games' Mythic Solutions to help balance things out a bit more.


Although this wouldn't alleviate issues with the sheer utility of mythic power (as Bill Dunn noted above):
Consider that as the GM, you are the arbitrator of what occurs in your campaign. It is entirely reasonable to determine what mythic abilities your party gets. Feats, powers, etc. - That is all up to the moves you want to make for your narrative.
It would be unreasonable to do this for their normal levels, but this is a mythic tier you are throwing down on top of the rest of their rewards for play.


Other alternatives:
Bonus feat - if you're worried about that being too good, limit the choices to stuff that's useful but may not be a priority to buy. Save boosters are a good choice, for example.

+2 bonus to a stat - The PCs can be counted on to boost their highest stat, so consider boosting their second-highest stat. It'll affect the power curve less than their highest and still be kind of nice.

Start using the hero point system (if you aren't already) - not as good as mythic but still a persistent boost.


A temporary mythic tier they can choose when to use for a day would be an awesome bonus and make them think hard when they use it. The other option is to perhaps give them a piece of mythic without a full tier. My recommendation would be the surge ability. Letting them add 1d6 after a roll is really fun and not a great deal better than hero points.


Yup, mythic is nutty. Tons of fun, but a totally different game.

Liberty's Edge

We're already using Hero Points however most of my party gave them up for the bonus feat. I think we only have one party member who has them.

But this has been a great tread. Most of my players are very well versed in the rules. While we ony have one actual power gamer right now everyone knows the rules well enough to really break the game with these.

Im thinking a temporary mythic pool may be the way to go. That way they'll have to choose carefully to use then and once they're gone they're gone. I'll just have to read the rules on them for a little bit.


Mythic is a lot of fun and some people don't like to be given something only to have it taken away. The power boost the group gets is big but not unworkable. Attrition is a beautiful thing with mythic groups.

Temporary means they might never use it fearing they will need it later or save it for the boss fight you will spend so long on and with the double moves they could get they might just walk right though it.

I would recommend talking to the group about it. Maybe to a one shot game to see what mythic is like and if all of you even like the mechanics as a group. One option if you like the system is to let the PCs each pick their path or feat and make them usable once per day per day. So either a feat or a path ability that they can use one per day. Or if you do not want that give them the surges only.

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