Purge Spirit: Purge spirit rips away at the target's spiritual substance, scattering it over a wide area and hampering the target's ability to reform. The target takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) and is staggered for one round. On a successful saving throw, the target takes half damage and is not staggered. This spell affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from purge spirit.
So that last part of the purge spirit spell (the part I bolded) has me a bit unsure of what it means. As far as I can tell, it likely means one of two options:
1: An incorporeal creature that saves against the effect of purge spirit negates the staggered effect as normal for a successful save, but takes full damage instead of half.
or
2: An incorporeal creature targeted by purge spirit takes full damage, as if every die rolled for maximum damage (and a successful save reduces this damage by half as normal.
...Anyone know which it is?
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3) It doesn't take 50% damage from its incorporeal quality.
Ooh, didn't even consider that one. That makes sense.
The intention seems pretty obvious to me...
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Good for you.
Another question on this one. Does it affect normal, corporeal targets?
Another question on this one. Does it affect normal, corporeal targets?
Only if they're made of ectoplasm.
Purge Spirit: Purge spirit rips away at the target's spiritual substance, scattering it over a wide area and hampering the target's ability to reform. The target takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) and is staggered for one round. On a successful saving throw, the target takes half damage and is not staggered. This spell affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from purge spirit.
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I'm confused because the target isn't limited.
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I'm confused because the target isn't limited.
Agreed. The wording in the text makes it sound like the damage is selective, but the crunchy text seems does not specify. I feel like their might have been some content either cut from the text, or that it was written when the occult classes were still under development and something changed about them while the spell wasn't updated.
Like, by the wording, it sounds like the spell can target a medium spirit or a phantom even though the former isn't really targettable and the latter is the same if it's inhabiting the user. Second, it sounds like a spell that could purge a medium of their spirit somehow, as it also effects haunts. So the whole thing sounds, to me, like it was meant to cast out ghosts, haunts, and other spirits by way of throwing them in the spirit paper shredder, but all the mechanics aren't there to do that with some of these (like the medium's spirit).
It also calls out directly that it targets spirits, and the description sounds as if it tears apart soulstuff, so it sounds like it wouldn't work on constructs or other creatures that might lack spirits.
So, what I think it means is that, it works on anything with a spirit, and potentially that you can use it to target spiritual creatures even when they are not usually targetable, so like you can target a ghost or demon possessing someone and have it only harm them or a phantom hiding in its spiritualist. That's at least the way I'd play it until I hear from the dev team.
Hopefully this 6 years late discourse helps lol.
I'm confused because the target isn't limited.Agreed. The wording in the text makes it sound like the damage is selective, but the crunchy text seems does not specify.
Depends what you mean by "the cruncy part" ... because the descriptors up the top also don't tell you that tye spell deals damage, so the whole text is "the crunchy part" in terms of telling you what the spell does.
So, what I think it means is that, it works on anything with a spirit ...
Again it depends what you mean here. If you're saying you can use this spell to deal 10d6 damage to every Human, Elf and Orc then I don't think that's the intention.
If you're saying you could target a spirit possessing a Human/Elf/Orc then ... I'm actually not sure but maybe?
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Like, by the wording, it sounds like the spell can target a medium spirit or a phantom even though the former isn't really targettable and the latter is the same if it's inhabiting the user. Second, it sounds like a spell that could purge a medium of their spirit somehow, as it also effects haunts. So the whole thing sounds, to me, like it was meant to cast out ghosts, haunts, and other spirits by way of throwing them in the spirit paper shredder, but all the mechanics aren't there to do that with some of these (like the medium's spirit).
There is nothing confusing about how it interacts with either of these… firstly, it specifically states that it can target “mediums channeling a spirit” meaning it damages the medium not the spirit they are channeling. It requires the medium to be channeling a spirit to work however. Secondly a spiritualists phantom is a spiritual manifestation of a portion of their own psyche. When the phantom is not fully manifested it has no spiritual form and is not a true spirit. When fully manifested it is an ectoplasmic entity which makes it a valid target for purge spirit. Without full manifestation the spell has nothing to latch onto, it isn’t designed to rip apart someone’s mind, it is meant to rip apart spirits and ectoplasmic entities.
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Necroing this thread by a bit...
I think I am in agreement with "Doc the Grey" above...
the line from the spell that talks about what it effects...
"This spell affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm."
seems to include a lot of creatures not normally fully target able by spells. this to me seems to indicate that these creatures are called out as being included in the Target line in the "crunchy bits" above. Normally, without this line, those creatures would not be fully targetable correct?
Also, the inclusion of ethereal creatures means that if you have a normal human wizard who happens to be plane shifted, he becomes a viable target. Why is this? You can target him if he's ethereal, (or incorporeal, or astrally projected) but not if he is actually standing there beside you... why not?
Whereas, if it targets creatures (as the write-up - "the crunchy bits" says) it puts it about on the same power level as Bone Shatter - which does 1d6 per level and exhausted and gives a Fort save for half damage (and fatigued)...
If it doesn't work on "normal" creatures - does it effect creatures that are blinking with the spell blink, which are ethereal creatures 1/2 the time?
There is a clear distinction between an ethereal creature and a corporeal creature who is currently on the ethereal plane. Plane shifting, casting blink, or ethereal jaunt does not make you into an ethereal creature… being under the effects of etherealness on the otherhand would.
This is pretty straight forward. "This spell affects" ergo it does not affect creatures outside of those listed.
There are no creatures listed that are "Not normally targetable". "Mediums channeling a spirit" is the Medium. Blink does not make you an ethereal creature. Plane Shift does not make you a ethereal creature.
The targeting line DOES let you use this thing as a "Are you secretly a Medium?" killer since you can cast it on people, but it won't harm them unless they are secretly one of the creatures that can be affected by it.
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Another question on this one. Does it affect normal, corporeal targets?Only if they're made of ectoplasm.
Purge Spirit: Purge spirit rips away at the target's spiritual substance, scattering it over a wide area and hampering the target's ability to reform. The target takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) and is staggered for one round. On a successful saving throw, the target takes half damage and is not staggered. This spell affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from purge spirit.
It looks to me like the difference of opinion is whether the bolded sentence above should be read as:
This spell ONLY affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm.
or as:
This spell ALSO affects astrally projected creatures, ethereal creatures, haunts, incorporeal creatures, mediums channeling a spirit, and phantoms, and at the GM's discretion can affect other spirits or creatures made of ectoplasm.
Additionally, I disagree with Scavions' statement:
There are no creatures listed that are "Not normally targetable".
IMHO: all of the creatures on the list (and Haunts) are not "normally" targetable. Can any of them be shot with a Ray of Frost? Perhaps a Haunt, if it has a listed vulnerability - but that would not be "Normally". Incorporeal creatures would take 1/2 damage from it, so maybe? - but then again, that is IMHO not "normally targetable". I guess Phantoms would be targetable, if they were corporeal. "Ethereal creatures" could be targeted if the shooter were also ethereal. In fact all of the creatures on the list would be targetable with a simple ray of frost in the right circumstances. But not "normally".
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IMHO: all of the creatures on the list (and Haunts) are not "normally" targetable. Can any of them be shot with a Ray of Frost? Perhaps a Haunt, if it has a listed vulnerability - but that would not be "Normally". Incorporeal creatures would take 1/2 damage from it, so maybe? - but then again, that is IMHO not "normally targetable". I guess Phantoms would be targetable, if they were corporeal. "Ethereal creatures" could be targeted if the shooter were also ethereal. In fact all of the creatures on the list would be targetable with a simple ray of frost in the right circumstances. But not "normally".
All of those creatures EXCEPT haunts are targetable (assuming you can see invisible creatures), however some of those creatures have defenses against certain kinds of attacks:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
Hence the original question and designer reply.
I do agree that the spell probably should only affect creatures that are mainly "spiritual" in nature. However, that's an interpretation as the actual wording and target line of the spell don't specify that.
I think you are mixing up what a creature can be targeted by and what a creature can be affected by.
You can Ray of Frost any of these creatures except haunts(barring special weaknesses). If you can see an Ethereal creature, you COULD fire a Ray of Frost at it, but you will fail to harm it since Ethereal creatures can't be harmed unless by force/abjurations.