Advanced Class Guide Archers

[W E Ray]

Possible suggestions for Archer builds with Skald, Swashbuckler and maybe Bloodrager.

(I *think* I'm still only looking for an Archer, though admittedly, I may eventually just go with a great big "viking" sword.)

My Advanced Class Guide is coming in the mail in the same package as Giantslayer #1 so it's close but not here yet. And I don't really want to spend hours and days looking through the PFSRD when you Lords of the Boards can help.

My PC is going to be a Cohort-like PC from the Land of the Linnorm Kings so Skald is good Fluff-wise. The Swashbuckler stereotype also loosely fits my idea for the PC -- again, Fluff-wise. (Bloodrager or of course, Barbarian & Fighter also fits my Fluff concept for the PC.)

I like multi-classing and THIS IS GESTALT!

So, any good Archer builds for Swashbuckler or Skald?

[GeneMemeScene]

There's not much about the Swashbuckler class features that lends itself to Archery as a main focus. Its push towards Dex means that every Swash can use a bow pretty well as a backup weapon, but an Archer Fighter is FAR superior to an Archer Swashbuckler.

If you're gestalting then I'd say your best option for an archer-esque Swashbuckler would just have Bolt Ace as their other class. Dex to attack and damage on range and melee sounds good.

I hear archery focused Barbarians are good, which should mean Archery Bloodragers are likewise, and Skald shouldn't be much worse.

[kestral287]

Warpriests actually make solid archers.

Do you know what you're putting on the other end of the gestalt? Because that can open up pretty much all the classes really.

[W E Ray]

Here's what I know about my PC:
He's from the Land of the Linnorm Kings;
He's very fast (Bbn, Fleet, Boots/Striding, anything else I can think of....);
He doesn't wear armor and he loves the cold (Savage Bbn or Invulnerable Rager);
He's loyal to his leader but he's quite chaotic & brash.
He's preferably a Shot-on-the-Run archer but could be a Spring-Attack, big-sword guy.

For his build I was originally thinking FTR on one side of the Gestalt and Bbn and some multi-class dipping on the other.

Then I remembered the ACG.

Remembering Swashbuckler altered my perception -- this PC does feel alot like a swashbuckler. I could go Ftr on one side with Bbn & SB on the other. But The only class I know in the ACG is Investigator -- does a Swashbuckler's special features fit into an Archer build, action economy-wise?
(Or if not, maybe a Skald or even a Bloodrager?)

[kestral287]

The Swashbuckler's features are wasted, from start to finish, on an archer. That's frankly probably the single worst use of the Swashbuckler that there is. You get Charmed Life (mediocre at best), Nimble (+5 AC while in Light Armor... woo?), five bonus feats, and... that's it. Deeds and panache are wasted because they don't work with bows. Swashbuckler Finesse is useless. Swashbuckler Weapon Training/Mastery does nothing.

Honestly even Barbarian isn't well-suited to archery. Really, it looks to me like you want to do something like Warpriest + full BAB class. That could be Barbarian if you really wanted, but I'd be leaning more toward the Ranger or Slayer.

[Tribalgeek]

Honestly there is a decent Archer Barbarian Archtype in the ranged tactics toolbox that would be good. I know it's not an ACG class, but out of those warpriest really might be your best option.

Swashbuckler while being dex focused just isn't going to mesh well with a bow they aren't built for it.

[Diminuendo]

If you want swashbuckler flavor with the bow the Hooded Champion Ranger is a strong option. If you take a level of Swash and take Snap Shot you can parry and reposte with a bow.

The Toxophilite also has a lot of swashbuckler flavor with the bow, and lets you shoot projectiles out of mid air.

[Wai Iotta]

Hmmm... fast, doesn't wear armor, good archer. I think you've described a Zen Archer, you could RP it so you don't have to be so monkish (that sounds weird. Monkly? Monk-like, there we go). You don't have to have a lot of wisdom, but if you did may I suggest the Evangelist of Erastil

If you can get out of the alignment restrictions issues (gm fiat, this aasimar trait by being an aasimar or the adopted trait). You could make the otherside of the gestalt an Urban Barbarian or a Primal Hunter.

Though honestly, I think the best powergaming/synergistic use would be to make the other side an Inquisitor. Maybe one of the new ACG archetypes ( Sacred Huntsmaster or Sanctified Slayer)?

[Bahamutkotd]

you could also run a hunter and have a mammoth companion or a deinycious

[Jayson MF Kip]

Fighter on one side and Swashbuckler on the other doesn't sound that bad, actually.

The pimary way to deal with archers is to close in. If they do that to you, you can rapier them into swiss cheese with your Swash abilities.

It doesn't sound so bad.

[Imbicatus]

If you want to use swashbuckler tricks with a bow, the Hooded Champion ranger archetype works.

[LoneKnave]

Bounty Hunter Slayer.

Ranged Dirty tricks hooooooooooooo!

[Gregory Connolly]

If you want a ranged character that isn't an archer you can do something like Flying Blade/ Invulnerable Rager. The thought here is to focus on throwing daggers. River Rat will give you +1 damage, all of your Swashbuckler stuff works fine with daggers both in melee and at range, and you will be hard to kill indeed. The downsides are things like being feat starved, a complete lack of casting and having a low will save. Quick Draw is required, and you may want to dip Fighter just to get more feats. Things like Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus Dagger, Weapon Specialization Dagger, and Improved Precise Shot will make you good at throwing. A Blinkback Belt can help once magic weapons become the rule, though it is in an item slot you would rather have something else in. Rage powers like Superstition can help your saves, you will probably have the charisma to make the Spirit Totem line work well, Reckless Abandon can help with accuracy. You actually want to avoid things like the Beast Totem line and Come and Get Me here as it will interfere with your swashbuckler antics. Getting Improved Critical at level 5 is very nice as well and comes naturally from being a Swashbuckler.

[RainyDayNinja]

What about gestalt Flying Blade/Warpriest? You get the Precise Strike bonus from Swashbuckler, plus Sacred Weapon/Divine Favor/Weapon Specialization from the Warpriest, and plenty of bonus feats to boot.

[W E Ray]

Thanks guys!

Alas for Warpriest, there is nothing in this character concept that will accept any Clr-like stuff, just doesn't fit.
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There is a story-way for this PC to get a few levels in Monk: He spent several years of his late childhood/teens in Cheliax as his Linnorm King lord was hired by a wealthy Chelaxian house as bodyguards/soldiers and he could have been forced to train & study as a "Lawful" Monk. And, of course, AS SOON as he got back to the Viking Lands he obliterates all veins of Law from his psyche (retaining the Monk crap he learned, of course).
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But Swashbuckler looks like fun. I could see going Ftr/SB and using a Scimitar -- there was a cool Archetype I saw. just not be an archer
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I'll look up "Hooded Champion" and "Bounty Hunter Slayer" for sure.

[Edymnion]

Or you can just ignore arbitrary flavor restrictions and just use mechanics.

What does the Zen Archer do, mechanically? He shots lots of arrows, and can still kick somebody's teeth out. Toss all the eastern flavor and alignment restrictions based purely on that flavor in the trash.

I find you end up with much better characters when you ignore the flavor something is given and just use it's mechanics for whatever you want.