1.) The Druid
a.) Our druid needs a name, deity (if any), and alignment.
Green Faith
NG
c.) Opinions on feats are divided between Realistic Likeness and Spell Focus (conjuration). Let's vote on one of these two choices.
Realistic Likeness
d.) Opinions are leaning toward "no archetype" for our kitsune, with suggestions for both mooncaller and wolf totem.
No archetype
2.
a)
Lady
b)
DEX>CHA>CON>WIS>=INT>=STR=10
d)
Mouser seems fun
f)
Thrill Seeker for one.
2)
Str 10 |Race (8)
Dex 14 |Race (16)
Con 13 |Race (13)
Int/Wis 10 |Race (10)
Wis/Int 12 |Race (12)
Cha 16 |Race (18)
The Int/Wis thing is I don't know which to raise to 12.Help Will save or better skill checks.
Another vote for fella with the halfling.
Things we still need:
No suggestions yet. If nobody is terribly concerned with names, I'll choose one from among the ARG suggestions, no biggie. {. . .}
In my last post I didn't choose a name, but I did choose a deity and alignment:
I'm currently terrible with Kitsune names (and no, I'm not going to just pull one out of the Kitsune page), but I would stick my neck out for a non-standard choice of deity for the Druid: Shelyn (from considering the Druid's pseudo-sibling relation with the Animal Companion) and/or Desna (since this Druid is wondering around while awfully young). Also, +1 for Neutral Good alignment (would say also Chaotic Good, but unfortunately Rules as Written doesn't let Druids do this even if they worship a corner alignment deity).
I guess my message was too long, but I did have a whole bunch of things to answer in there.
Vote for female halfling.
And a vote for the MoonCaller Archtype for the druid with a wolf.
1)b) Child of the Moon(Stealth), Outlander(exile)
c)Realistic likeness
2.a)Fella
c)Weapon Focus(Swashbuckler's weapon of choice)
d)Mouser
F)Thrill Seeker
Everyone happy to go with my suggestion for a name and country of origin?
^Go for it.
Okay, I think we have enough data to pin down the druid's remaining details.
Consensus is that her name shall be Anneka Oranti, from (!!!) Ustalav.
Consensus is that the druid should be Neutral Good and worship the Green Faith.
There is no real consensus on the druid's traits, so we'll choose, from among the most sensible and strongly-advocated suggestions posited so far: Student of Faith and Highlander. Although our druid worships the Green Faith, there's no reason she couldn't select Student of Faith (which states that the character is interested in or curious about all faiths, or at least in more than one).
NOTE: Yes, the +1 to the DC of channel energy is wasted, but +1 caster level for all cure spells is a pretty significant advantage at low levels. Plus, this way we could utilize some of UnArcane's suggestions about life lessons learned from Shelyn, Desna, and others.
Lastly, consensus is that our druid should use no archetype.
SO! Moving on, let's do two things. [ooc](EDIT: Two-and-a-half things).[ooc]
1.) We still need to make several choices regarding our halfling swashbuckler. It looks like we will use the Mouser archetype and the Thrill seeker trait, but the verdict is still out on the following:
a.) Votes are tied 3 vs. 3 on the swashbuckler's sex. I don't want to make an arbitrary decision yet, since opinions are so strong and so neck-and-neck.
b.) I've got a couple-or-three suggestions on ability scores. I'll give you folks a little longer to vote on existing suggestions (or make new ones) before I close this all-important category.
c.) We still need a lot more thought and voting on our swashbuckler's feat!
d.) We also need more voting on skill points (in order of importance to us). Suggestions have been submitted for Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge(local), and Sleight of Hand. Also, Perform (dance), in case we want to take Dervish Dance later.
e.) Will our halfling use any of the alternate racial traits from the ARG?
And, lastly;
f.) The Thrill Seeker trait is locked in unanimously, but the jury is out on our non-campaign trait.
In addition, it's also time to start taking suggestions and votes for...
2. Who shall our third PC be? We're now taking concepts and suggestions!
Remember, all previous votes for PC concepts are void, but you are free to vote for earlier suggestions (or propose new ones). Before we all get carried away with PC #3 suggestions, remember to submit votes and thoughts regarding the swashbuckler details, above!
EDIT: I forgot to ask if our kitsune should use either of the alternate racial traits from the ARG!
Those would be: Gregarious (a tough choice, since we don't have Diplomacy... but since it gives up Agile, which also improves a skill that we don't have: Acrobatics) and Fast Shifter (change forms as a move action, but give up dancing lights and +1 DC to enchantment spells).
Personally, I recommend either Gregarious or neither (because +1 DC to all charm/dominate animal spells is pretty nice), but I'll give you folks some time to think about it.
Also, we need to choose one starting language for Anneka: Aklo, Celestial, Elven, Gnome, Nagaji, Samsaran, Senzar, Tengu, Wayang, or any one of the Golarion-specific languages!
After a bit, I'll put the finished stats up for Anneka Oranti, our first 100%-complete PC.
1(a): male swashbuckler
1(c): Toughness is not wasted in this AP
2: I would love to see a Shoanti bloodrager (destined or arcane bloodline).
Anneka miscellanous: I don't find the alternate racial traits that fitting for the druid, so I'd vote for vanilla.
Starting language: Elven (or even Goblin)
2) Slothful Wizard!
Race: Male Human 44
Class: Wizard
School: Evocation (Admixture)
Familiar: Cat
Alignment: CG
Backstory: Lazy wizard son of rich parents, got private paid tuition and apprenticeship from a master but afterwards declined into hedge wizardry to make a living; only really comes alive when casting evocation spells. Much dislike of martials.
This sounds very interesting with the builds and selections. I am curious if we are also debating the goals/personalities/quirks that each of these characters have, in turn influencing the building process.
It was touched upon that the druid was to have a sister-brother relation with her animal companion. With her wisdom score growing with her levels, I imagine her to be naive to the outside world at the beginning while relying on the wolf's guidance.
Consider the following for our posh-but-rowdy swashbuckler:
You’ve grown up in or around Sandpoint and are the heir to your family’s modest farm, shop, or fishing boat, but you’ve always dreamed of more. Searching for a taste of excitement, you’ve come into town to participate in this year’s Swallowtail festival. The thrill of danger grants you an additional +5 feet of movement during the first round of any combat. Additionally, you begin play with three star candle fireworks (see Ultimate Equipment).
In the hands of a trained warrior, a well-sharpened blade is deadly regardless of size. A mouser moves in close, using her size and skill as an advantage.
Combining fancy footwork with quick and precise lunges, swashbucklers dart in and out of battle, harassing and thwarting their opponents. These fast and agile combatants serve as protectors for spellcasters and flank mates for rogues and slayers, while waiting for the opportunity to show panache and score the killing blow on some lumbering hulk. Swashbucklers often face death with wry humor, mocking it with jabbing wit.
1) The mental picutre that I've been getting is a tale of Despereaux, a [rat] person who dreams of being more than just a rat, but a knight in shining armor.
Instead, perhaps this halfling works for a family business (what npc businesses are there in Sandpoint?) but wants to become an adventurer, training in the martial arts and become a hero, like the legends of old. Could have read fantasy stories while growing up.
a) getting a male vibe here. suave, quick to retort, silver tongue. Borrowing ideas from miguel and tulio from the road to El Dorado.
b) No comment
c) agree with toughness as a feat.
d) skills in order: acrobatics, diplomacy, knowledge (local), escape artist (small and in melee? asking to get grabbed.)
e) replace slow speed and sure footed for fleet of foot and keen senses for low blow.
f) No comment
g) Did we get this person's alignment? If not, I am conflicted on whether he's lawful good or chaotic good. He pursues freedom to make a name for himself, but to his moral code he abides.
2a) I vote for the slothful wizard, though I'd like to see if the cat was the better wizard than the human.
This sounds very interesting with the builds and selections. I am curious if we are also debating the goals/personalities/quirks that each of these characters have, in turn influencing the building process.
I definitely intend to have a conversation about personalities and roleplaying, and how those things will work, once our party is finished.
Great swashbuckler input, by the way; thanks!
@ Everyone Else: I'm keeping the thread open a while longer for swashbuckler deliberation, and we need a lot more discussion about PC #3. So far we have a couple of votes for a strictly human version of our slothful-wizard-with-lazy-cat-familiar concept. I will update again much later this evening.
i would like to sugjest a dwarven stonelord paladin, a dwarf that is slowly turning to stone sounds pretty cool, he can be there for the coronation of the new temple.
as a note stonelords loose almost all of their spell abilitys and pretty much become a pure martial class that is really defensive and gets an earth elimental for a companion. the only casty thing they keep is lay on hands
+1 vote for lecherous bard for third PC
+1 +1 for the bard.
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Okay, I think we have enough data to pin down the druid's remaining details.
Consensus is that her name shall be Anneka Oranti, from (!!!) Ustalav.
Consensus is that the druid should be Neutral Good and worship the Green Faith.
Sounds good.
There is no real consensus on the druid's traits, so we'll choose, from among the most sensible and strongly-advocated suggestions posited so far: Student of Faith and Highlander. Although our druid worships the Green Faith, there's no reason she couldn't select Student of Faith (which states that the character is interested in or curious about all faiths, or at least in more than one).
NOTE: Yes, the +1 to the DC of channel energy is wasted, but +1 caster level for all cure spells is a pretty significant advantage at low levels. Plus, this way we could utilize some of UnArcane's suggestions about life lessons learned from Shelyn, Desna, and others.
This works, including the Student of Faith roleplaying aspect.
Lastly, consensus is that our druid should use no archetype.
EDIT: I forgot to ask if our kitsune should use either of the alternate racial traits from the ARG!
Those would be: Gregarious (a tough choice, since we don't have Diplomacy... but since it gives up Agile, which also improves a skill that we don't have: Acrobatics) and Fast Shifter (change forms as a move action, but give up dancing lights and +1 DC to enchantment spells).
Personally, I recommend either Gregarious or neither (because +1 DC to all charm/dominate animal spells is pretty nice), but I'll give you folks some time to think about it.
According to this Kitsune guide, Fast Shifter is a trap because you can replace it with Swift Kitsune Shapechanger (which doesn't need to be taken at 1st level), and Gregarious isn't a great substitution either (at least for a Kitsune who has any significant opportunity to cast enchantment spells).
Also, we need to choose one starting language for Anneka: Aklo, Celestial, Elven, Gnome, Nagaji, Samsaran, Senzar, Tengu, Wayang, or any one of the Golarion-specific languages!
Some of these don't appear on the d20pfsrd.com Kitsune page, but anyway, this list of languages doesn't have any compelling candidates, but I would lean towards Celestial, Elven, Shoanti, or Varisian (communicate with certain Outsiders, Elves, Shoanti, or Varisians who might be in the area and might look down their noses at you if you only know Common).
After a bit, I'll put the finished stats up for Anneka Oranti, our first 100%-complete PC.
Will you be ready to create a messageboards character yet, or first post it inline in this thread?
SO! Moving on, let's do two things.
1.) We still need to make several choices regarding our halfling swashbuckler. It looks like we will use the Mouser archetype and the Thrill seeker trait, but the verdict is still out on the following:
a.) Votes are tied 3 vs. 3 on the swashbuckler's sex. I don't want to make an arbitrary decision yet, since opinions are so strong and so neck-and-neck.
Not necessarily opinions so strong, but would be cool to have our brash swashbuckler buck the stereotype in one regard. Or swashbuck it, anyway.
b.) I've got a couple-or-three suggestions on ability scores. I'll give you folks a little longer to vote on existing suggestions (or make new ones) before I close this all-important category.
c.) We still need a lot more thought and voting on our swashbuckler's feat!
So far, doesn't look like we're getting a Rogue/Ninja/substitute, so I would suggest that the first feat be Additional Traits (Dangerously Curious, Vagabond Child) to add to the Campaign Trait Thrillseeker and the other trait Reactionary.
Then, we can do 1 of 2 things:
1. Make the 2nd feat (3rd level) be Weapon Focus, and make the 1st Swashbuckler Bonus Feat (4th level) be Fencing Grace or Slashing Grace (depending upon the weapon chosen with Weapon Focus, and be careful of Slashing Grace being broken, and not necessarily in a way that is advantageous to the character).
2. Spend 1 rank at each of 1st and 2nd levels on Perform(Dance), and make the 2nd feat (3rd level) be Dervish Dance, and use a Scimitar.
Option #1 above is more practical because our Swashbuckler will be skill-starved even with Favored Class Bonus going into Skill Points unless Intelligence is pumped more than you'd want (and the +1 to hit from Weapon Focus is not bad to have, anyway), but Option #2 is thematically somewhat cooler (Sarenrae influence -- our Swashbuckler has a heart of gold hidden under all that brashness), and as far as I can tell works even without using the Whirling Dervish archetype, and gets online 1 level sooner than option #1 or a straight-up Whirling Dervish.
d.) We also need more voting on skill points (in order of importance to us). Suggestions have been submitted for Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge(local), and Sleight of Hand. Also, Perform (dance), in case we want to take Dervish Dance later.
e.) Will our halfling use any of the alternate racial traits from the ARG?
Got to use Fleet of Foot. Can't have our Swashbuckler be slow, and what you give up (Sure-Footed) is easy to overcome (can even use feats for this if you want to, although I wouldn't recommend it -- just keep putting ranks into Acrobatics and Climb). Some of the other alternate racial traits have their uses, but don't really work for our Swashbuckler.
And, lastly;
f.) The Thrill Seeker trait is locked in unanimously, but the jury is out on our non-campaign trait.
Or 3 non-Campaign Traits -- see Additional Traits above.
In addition, it's also time to start taking suggestions and votes for...
2. Who shall our third PC be? We're now taking concepts and suggestions!
Remember, all previous votes for PC concepts are void, but you are free to vote for earlier suggestions (or propose new ones). Before we all get carried away with PC #3 suggestions, remember to submit votes and thoughts regarding the swashbuckler details, above!
Looking at The Forge of Combat, we have an Arm (divine caster, our Druid) and Hammer (our Swashbuckler), but so far we don't have an Anvil (arcane caster). So, I have two related suggestions for an Anvil.
The first proposal is a suggestion I snagged from this thread (post #3): Reach Eldritch Knight. This is almost equivalent to a Reach Cleric (also see discussion thread), but is instead an Eldritch Knight (guide, discussion thread that I haven't checked yet). This character will do multiple duty by being a full arcane caster delayed by only 3 levels (and only 1 caster level; eventually 4 levels and 2 caster levels) and by taking Attacks of Opportunity with reach at close to full BAB, using a reach weapon with a wide critical range and the Trip property: the Fauchard (Exotic Two-Handed Weapon, d10, 18~20/x3, Reach, Trip), which will eventually synergize with the Eldritch Knight 10th level ability Spell Critical, which somewhat substitutes for Magus' Spellstrike (although it takes a LOT longer to get online). I considered Bloodrager (can work, but only 4/9 spellcasting) and Magus (but vanilla Magus and the various archetypes don't work well with two-handed weapons, because Spell Combat is designed to work as a substitute for Two-Weapon Fighting, and Magus is only 3/4 BAB anyway, which hurts extra when you are also taking Two-Weapon Fighting penalties to hit). So this seems like a niche for Eldritch Knight. Here's the first part of the build:
Our Eldritch Knight is going to be MAD (and I don't mean Rage), and the races that give a 3rd level arcane spell-like ability (vanilla Aasimar, Svirfneblin) to qualify for into Eldritch Knight don't have the right ability score bonuses (Svirfneblin even has a penalty to Strength, which is especially bad for this build). So race will be [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human]Human, trading out the Human Bonus Feat for Dual Talent to get +2 on two ability scores. Our Eldritch Knight's spellcasting class will be Wizard, Divination School, Scryer Sub-School to get Send Senses (Clairaudience/Clairvoyance which works as a 3rd level arcane spell-like ability (and replaces the lackluster Diviner's Fortune) to qualify for early entry into Eldritch Knight -- and the Divination School's Forewarned ability (that doesn't get replaced) is good for this too. The martial class (which will occupy two of the first 3 levels) will be Fighter (Lore Warden archetype) to get highly necessary bonus feats. Our Eldritch is using a a Fauchard, which is an Exotic Weapon, so will need to take up crafting to be able to make a new one in case something happens to the old one (may even need this at the start), and will eventually want to make a masterwork one and add enchantments to it. So here's a summary of the build, with details expanded only for the first part:
Pump Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence, and put the dual +2 from Human Dual Talent into two of these; ability score increases first go into bumping odd numbers in Dexterity and Strength up to the next even numbers, and thereafter all of them go into Intelligence. Don't pump anything else, but don't dump anything else either. Skills should include Craft(Weapons) at the start, and eventually put enough points into it to have good success with crafting masterwork and then magic weapons.
Traits (4 total, including 2 via the Additional Traits feat):
Campaign Trait: Scholar of the Ancients -- gives +1 to Knowledge(Arcana) and Knowledge(History), and bonus language Thassilonian, all of which will be important.
Combat Trait: Reactionary -- gives better initiative, and fits thematically -- our Scholar of the Ancients nerd kept getting beat up by bullies, and had to learn to adapt.
Magic Trait: Magical Knack -- gives +2 caster level as long as the total doesn't exceed Hit Dice (total character level).
Religion Trait (Torag): Defensive Strategist -- basically gives almost the equivalent of Uncanny Dodge as a trait. Requires being a worshipper of Torag, but our Eldritch Knight is going to be a crafter, so this isn't bad.
1. Fighter (Lore Warden) 1: Level 1 character feat = Additional Traits (see above); Level 1 Fighter Bonus Feat = Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Fauchard).
2. Divination (Scryer) Wizard 1 (this could go 3rd, but want to get spellcasting online earlier). Pick Bonded Item for Arcane Bond, because a Familiar won't advance with Eldritch Knight levels.
3. Fighter (Lore Warden) 2: Level 3 character feat = Improved Initiative (stacks with Reactionary and high Dexterity to get Initiative through the roof); Lore Warden bonus feat that replaces Bravery = Combat Expertise (which is needed to get Improved Trip); Level 2 Fighter Bonus Feat = Improved Trip.
4 - 12. Eldritch Knight 1 - 9. When BAB hits +6 get Greater Trip. Also add Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm (like Trip, these can be performed in place of an attack, including an AoO) in there as Combat Feats become available. When caster level hits 5, get Craft Magic Arms and Armor. Make magic Fauchard with Keen (enormous critical range) and possibly other enchantments, and make magic weapons for the rest of the party (a LOT cheaper than buying them), and don't shy away from selling weapons that you have made that become obsolete because you made better ones later on, or trading them for important/valuable magic items that you don't know how to make and can't find (also trade for spells, since you won't be getting the bonus spells per level that come with Wizard progression). Craft Wondrous Item might be not a bad idea to pick up if it will fit into the sea of feats; ordinarily this is the strongest Item Creation Feat, but an Exotic Weapon user needs Craft Magic Arms and Armor real bad, so get that first. Torag will be proud. May also want some Metamagic Feats.
13. Eldritch Knight 10. Eldritch Knight gets Spell Critical, so wants a Keen Fauchard as noted above, to maximize the opportunity for using this. Spellcasting progression is now at level 11, which enables casting of Anti-Magic Field.
14 - 17. Take 4 levels of Arcane Archer to extend the full BAB levels and get Enhance Arrows and Imbue Arrow (Anti-Magic Field is a brokenly good choice), although this does cost another caster level and spellcasting progression level. Our Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer will want a good magic Composite Longbow and possibly individual magic arrows by this point, so if a suitable bow hasn't been picked up by this point, put ranks in Craft(Bows) (which also lets you craft your own arrows). Torag will be proud.
18 - on. Wizard 2 - on.
The second proposal is inspired by the first. This would still be a Human Eldritch Knight sharing considerable build details with the first proposal, but going for ranged combat including the Snap Shot --> Improved Snap Shot --> Greater Snap Shot feats and their prerequisites, instead of the Reach Eldritch Knight build; the Eldritch Knight Bonus Feats will still help with picking up these feats, but optionally insert the 4 levels of Arcane Archer as soon as BAB gets to +6 (although this will delay getting Spell Critical, which however won't be nearly as important as in Proposal 1). This character doesn't need Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, or Improved Trip, but does benefit from Precise Shot and Divine Grace provided by 2 levels of Divine Hunter archetype of Paladin. Divine Grace needs Charisma instead of Intelligence, and this build isn't using Combat Feats that need Intelligence, so pump Charisma instead of Intelligence, and replace Wizard with Sorcerer. Of course, also invest skill points in Craft(Bows) instead of Craft(Weapons) if going the crafting route, but Bows and Arrows are easier to come by than Fauchards, so this build could drop the crafting skill investment (which is effectively more expensive due to Intelligence not being pumped) and Item Creation Feat(s). Torag won't be as proud as of the other build, so should probably replace the Religion Trait with something else, or possibly even drop both that and the Reactionary trait to free up the Additional Traits feat for substitution with something else, since this build will be more feat-starved.
^Addition to Third Character proposal above: Alternatively, you could be an Elf for the Reach Eldritch Knight version of the build to get +2 Dex and +2 Int, although -2 Con hurts; or you could be a Halfling for the Ranged Sorcadin version of the build to get +2 Dex and +2 Cha, although -2 Str and using Small weapons hurts even more. Alternatively, you could be a Half-Elf for either build, although you only get +2 to one ability score; on the other hand, you could spend a feat on Multitalented Mastery and get all classes including the prestige classes to be Favored Classes. You might even be able to get a feat back by trading in Adaptability (Skill Focus) for Ancestral Arms (for Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Fauchard)), if you can figure out a way to figure Fauchard familiarity into the character's backstory; or trade in Adaptability for Mordant Envoy (to get a further +1 caster level for Transmutation spells), if you can figure out a plausible backstory way to get a Mordant Spire Half-Elf to Sandpoint; the latter option also works for the Ranged Sorcadin version of the proposal.
^Some minor corrections:
I miscounted casting progression levels in the Reach Eldritch Knight (first) version of the build -- spellcasting progression actually reaches level 11 (to get Anti-Magic Field) at Arcane Archer 2 (unless you insert a level of Wizard before it), but Arcane Archer 2 is the level at which you get Imbue Arrow, so this still works.
For the Reach Eldritch Knight version who is going to be crafting weapons, might as well (in addition to Keen) also add Fortuitous to get even more AoOs.
Ranged Sorcadin (second) version of the build still needs a 1 level dip in Diviner/Scryer Wizard (for which Intelligence 11 is needed) to get the spell-like ability, so delays Sorcerer spellcasting progression and caster level by 1 more level. On the other hand, as suggested here, this opens up the possibility for Dragon Disciple to replace some of the Eldritch Knight levels, although this does both further slow spellcasting progression and slows BAB progression. Alternatively, could drop the Wizard dip and just use 4 early levels of Sorcerer to qualify for Dragon Disciple the normal way, still insert Arcane Archer when BAB hits +6, go back to Dragon Disciple, and then only use Eldritch Knight to fill out the remaining levels.
For the Ranged Sorcadin version, Angel-Blooded Aasimar or Azata-Blooded Aasimar also gives good ability score adjustments and opens some other possibilities.
Human trading in Bonus Feat for Dual Talent also trades in Skilled (extra skill point per level), but this should still work.
^Contribution from Lastoth in the Reach Cleric thread: Need to insert Combat Reflexes before Improved Initiative. Also, when getting into the later levels of Eldritch Knight (for the Reach Eldritch Knight) or the earlier levels (for the Reach Sorcadin), be sure to leave space for the 3 feats required by Arcane Archer: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (ranged Sorcadin gets this for free at Divine Hunter Paladin level 2), and Weapon Focus (Longbow).
EDIT: Actually, might even be better to insert Combat Reflexes before Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Fauchard) to get it online at level 1, and manufacture the Fauchard (make it masterwork from the start, while we're at it) and pick up proficiency in it later (for instance, at 3rd level).
Wow, not as familiar with the multi-class builds, but UnArcaneElection did some serious research.
The Eldritch Knight looks fun, been a hybrid fighter and arcane spell caster, and if it follows option #1, will also be a weapon/armor craftsman. Very nice. I can see how his knowledge in the magics will make him versatile. Will this character consider himself more of a martial wizard or a spell casting fighter?
Would this then alleviate some of the magic responsibilities from the swashbuckler? That way he can focus more in the martial role. Thus far I'm voting for a rapier focus.
Or, what if the swashbuckler multiclassed as a bard? use perform (dance) to battle? how feasible would that be?
New guy popping in here with a few thoughts.
I know that the source is not on your list of material, but I feel that the Bodyguard archetype from the Animal Archive would fit perfectly with our druid's animal companion. It's worth considering I think?
I'd like to suggest another 2 characters too:
Zhao Feng with his animal companion Xin Shui, the Samurai on a dinosaur. The best class for him would probably be hunter, but an actual samurai could work too.
And
Shaye, a varisian investigator. She's surprised and intrigued with the strange happenings in the small town of Sand Point lately, but her short (yet intense) attention span has thus far kept her from unpuzzling anything.
Rather not have multi-class builds. Pulling off a community Let's Play is complicated enough without really esoteric builds. Just my opinion.
Swashbuckler (and PC #3) Progress Report:
We've arrived at a narrow consensus on a gender (male) for our halfling swashbuckler. I'll give the forum until tomorrow to contribute a little more thought to the following:
1.) the Halfling Swashbuckler
a.) A little more input on ability scores and skill points would be good.
b.) For a feat, we are now more or less tied on the following choices: Toughness or Weapon Focus (rapier). Thoughts?
c.) Alternate racial traits: Fleet of Foot has been suggested. Any other thoughts?
d.) Lastly, Reactionary has been suggested for our non-campaign trait (with other suggestions in the mix, contingent upon taking Additional Traits). Anyone for Reactionary? Anyone against?
In addition, it's also time to start taking suggestions and votes for...
And then there's...
2.) PC #3
I'm counting...
1 vote for human (Shoanti) bloodrager;
2 votes for slothful male human wizard with slothful cat familiar;
1 vote for a dwarven stonelord paladin;
2 votes for a lecherous bard;
1 vote for any number of variants on a human (or possibly elven) Eldritch Knight (see above);
1 vote for a samurai on a dinosaur (though I'm not sure how workable that would be given the allowed materials); and
1 vote for a human (Varisian) investigator
Keep deliberating; I'll lock down the remaining halfling data (and the 3rd PC, if there is a very clear winner) this evening or tomorrow afternoon.
On the Halfling swashbuckler
a.) For ability scores I vote for something along these lines:
Str: 8 Dex: 18 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 10 Cha: 15
b.) I'm for Weapon Focus here. I like toughness, but I think we should save toughness for the day we notice we need some meatier dudes.
c.) I'm for Fleet of Foot.
d.) Reactionary is powerful, but seems a but boring. In my opinion it feels a bit like a cop out. I like Dangerously Curious though, as the halfling doesn't seem like the type to have been bullied too much.
On PC #3
I want to vote for a slothful wizard, but I think it would work better with either: A sloth familiar or as a sorcerer? I mean, a slothful wizard would probably skip preparing spells, or feeding his familiar.
However;
+1 for the shoanti bloodrager - Some actual Varisians / Sand Pointers should be in the party.
Add another vote for the slothful wizard!
Reactionary is fine for the Swashbuckler.
Okay, I have to be brief this time. (REALLY!)
Swashbuckler (and PC #3) Progress Report:
We've arrived at a narrow consensus on a gender (male) for our halfling swashbuckler. I'll give the forum until tomorrow to contribute a little more thought to the following:
1.) the Halfling Swashbuckler
a.) A little more input on ability scores and skill points would be good.
What I said in an earlier post . . .
b.) For a feat, we are now more or less tied on the following choices: Toughness or Weapon Focus (rapier). Thoughts?
If you aren't getting Additional Traits (like I posted earlier), you might as well try to get full Swashbuckling ability online early, so in that case I would vote for Weapon Focus(Rapier), to be followed up by Fencing Grace with the next feat.
c.) Alternate racial traits: Fleet of Foot has been suggested. Any other thoughts?
I recommend none of the others -- they have their uses but don't really help our Swashbuckler.
d.) Lastly, Reactionary has been suggested for our non-campaign trait (with other suggestions in the mix, contingent upon taking Additional Traits). Anyone for Reactionary? Anyone against?
I already suggested Reactionary, but this actually fits thematically if our Halfling Swashbuckler is brash partly as a reaction to having been bullied.
In addition, it's also time to start taking suggestions and votes for...
And then there's...
2.) PC #3
I'm counting...
1 vote for human (Shoanti) bloodrager;
2 votes for slothful male human wizard with slothful cat familiar;
1 vote for a dwarven stonelord paladin;
2 votes for a lecherous bard;
1 vote for any number of variants on a human (or possibly elven) Eldritch Knight (see above);
1 vote for a samurai on a dinosaur (though I'm not sure how workable that would be given the allowed materials); and
1 vote for a human (Varisian) investigator{. . .}
I can't vote for what I already submitted (Sloth/Conjuration Sin Magic Wizard and Reach Eldritch Knight or Ranged Sorcadin), but since we have been without a Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof until now, my vote for something else would go to Investigator (Human Varisian is fine) -- reportedly a bit weak for the 1st 2 or 3 levels, but after then they get really good, and work very well as Rogue (if not exactly Ninja) substitutes. Investigator guide, discussion thread for this, guide supplement, discussion for this -- I have read the guides (but would need to go through them again to be sure of stuff, but can't do it right now), but not the accompanying discussion threads.
Slothful wizard vote. For pc#3
For swashbuckler Fleet of Foot for racial and reactionary for trait.
+1 for the Bard
PC #3 Update:
2 votes for human (Shoanti) bloodrager;
4 votes for slothful male human wizard with slothful cat familiar;
1 vote for a dwarven stonelord paladin;
3 votes for a lecherous bard;
1 vote for any number of variants on a human (or possibly elven) Eldritch Knight (see above);
1 vote for a samurai on a dinosaur (though I'm not sure how workable that would be given the allowed materials); and
2 votes for a human (Varisian) investigator
Voting is pretty close between the slothful wizard and lecherous bard, with Shoanti bloodrager and Varisian investigator close(ish) behind.
Tonight, I'll be piecing together the near-finished core of our swashbuckler, at which point we'll begin to nail down the fiddly details (name, alignment, patron deity, and so on). Until then, everyone is welcome to continue contributing thoughts on feats, ability scores, and so forth.
I may close the voting for PC #3 around that same time, too - so submit your thoughts and votes there, as well.
One vote for chubby kitty attached to wizard-guy.
Also, a vote for weapon finesse (rapier) on swashbuckles.
Wanted to point out that if we have an Investigator (or other Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof), our Swashbuckler doesn't need the Additional Traits as much, and can spend feats getting fully online faster.
If Wizard wins vote for #3 (as appears inreasingly likely), maybe make Investigator (or something like that) #4.
Wanted to point out that if we have an Investigator (or other Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof), our Swashbuckler doesn't need the Additional Traits as much, and can spend feats getting fully online faster.
If Wizard wins vote for #3 (as appears inreasingly likely), maybe make Investigator (or something like that) #4.
I'm entirely behind this plan as well. It should be 4 interesting characters with decent synergy, and all bases covered.
Alright, so here's our swashbuckler so far.
male swashbuckler 1
11 hp
Str 9, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16
Feat: Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits: Thrill Seeker, Reactionary
Racial: Fleet of Foot
Skills: Acrobatics 1 rank, Escape Artist 1 rank, Knowledge (local) 1 rank, 2 unspent ranks (see below)
Some notes about the ability scores. Most (but not quite all) of you prioritized Dex over Cha, and all of you suggested the prioritized score at 18. Hence, 18 Dex and 16 Cha. In addition, most (but, again, not all) of you suggested a Strength of 8, with one suggestion for a Strength of 10. I compromised at a Strength score of 9 so that you folks can rid yourselves of the Strength penalty (which will apply to damage rolls) at level 4, if you so choose.
With all of the above worked out, we only have a few more things to cover before our swashbuckler is finished; I'll address our needs one-by-one:
1.) New Business
a.) Our swashbuckling fella needs a name.
b.) He also needs an alignment and a patron deity (if any).
c.) He needs to assign a favored class benefit. Shall we take +1 hit point, +1 skill point, or +1/2 daily uses of the charmed life class feature?
d.) He's also entitled to one bonus language: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, or Goblin.
2.) Old Business
a.) I left some skill ranks unspent. It's clear that we want our swashbuckler to field some social skills, I have 1 vote each for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate (remember size category issues, though). There was also a suggestion for Sleight of Hand. Which two skills (or THREE skills, if we choose to gain a favored class skill point) should we assign to these last two (three?) points?
b.) Last call for alternate racial traits (in addition to Fleet of Foot).
For interested parties, here's Anneka Oranti, our kitsune druid.
She hasn't prepared spells or purchased equipment yet; we'll take care of that once all of our PCs are built.
I vote the swashbuckler be: named Teberus von Goodbrandy, chaotic good, worship Cayden Cailean, choose skill point or charmed life and.... speak elven.
Alright, so here's our swashbuckler so far.
male swashbuckler 1
11 hp
Str 9, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16
Feat: Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits: Thrill Seeker, Reactionary
Racial: Fleet of Foot
Skills: Acrobatics 1 rank, Escape Artist 1 rank, Knowledge (local) 1 rank, 2 unspent ranks (see below)Some notes about the ability scores. Most (but not quite all) of you prioritized Dex over Cha, and all of you suggested the prioritized score at 18. Hence, 18 Dex and 16 Cha. In addition, most (but, again, not all) of you suggested a Strength of 8, with one suggestion for a Strength of 10. I compromised at a Strength score of 9 so that you folks can rid yourselves of the Strength penalty (which will apply to damage rolls) at level 4, if you so choose.
As you noted, Strength 9 gives a damage penalty until Fencing Grace comes online (which now looks like it will be Level 3, or Level 4 if he needs something else real bad at Level 3). Some Combat Feats need Intelligence 13, but on Swashbuckler I read that Swashbuckler Finesse substitutes Charisma for Intelligence for this purpose, so we're covered.
With all of the above worked out, we only have a few more things to cover before our swashbuckler is finished; I'll address our needs one-by-one:
1.) New Business
a.) Our swashbuckling fella needs a name.
b.) He also needs an alignment and a patron deity (if any).
I'm terrible with Halfling names, but I suggest alignment Chaotic Good and currently no deity, but leave open the possibility to pick up one later.
c.) He needs to assign a favored class benefit. Shall we take +1 hit point, +1 skill point, or +1/2 daily uses of the charmed life class feature?
The latter should actually be +1/4 daily uses of the Charmed Life class feature according to both Archives of Nethys Halfling page and the d20pfsrd.com Halfling page, and I just can't find the equivalent information in the actual PRD, so I'll stick to the other sources. Still, that is actually a pretty good Favored Class Bonus, since the class feature it improves is good, and hard to increase the uses of (so far I haven't found an Extra Charmed Life feat, and the rate at which it naturally improves with level is the same as what this Favored Class Bonus gives). If our Swashbuckler had to choose Hit Points and/or Skill Points for the first 4 levels (or even less), it still might be good to switch over to this Favored Class Bonus afterwards. So I vote for +1/4 daily uses of the Charmed Life class feature unless an extra Skill Point or Hit Point is needed real bad.
d.) He's also entitled to one bonus language: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, or Goblin.
Dwarvish and Elven are more likely to come up on a sustained basis, but Goblin is certainly useful in this AP (and in the Sandpoint region more generally) and might actually be more thematically fitting for this character.
2.) Old Business
a.) I left some skill ranks unspent. It's clear that we want our swashbuckler to field some social skills, I have 1 vote each for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate (remember size category issues, though). There was also a suggestion for Sleight of Hand. Which two skills (or THREE skills, if we choose to gain a favored class skill point) should we assign to these last two (three?) points?
Bluff is a must-have. Intimidate fits thematically even when considering the size category issues, and sounds like something this character would try repeatedly even if it doesn't work at first (Brash? Check. Swashbuckler? Check. Wisdom? Just barely average.). Sleight of Hand is not a must-have if we're going to get an Investigator for character #4, and thematically our brash Swashbuckler could choose to ignore it for the most part ("What do I need to steal for?").
b.) Last call for alternate racial traits (in addition to Fleet of Foot).
Nope -- just stick with that one.
For interested parties, here's Anneka Oranti, our kitsune druid.
She hasn't prepared spells or purchased equipment yet; we'll take care of that once all of our PCs are built.
We need a background for her, too.
What country is the halfling swashbuckler from? It could be relevant for picking his name.
Bluff for swashbuckler
Tomorrow evening, I'll try to upload a semi-finished version of our halfling, but we still need swashbuckler data as described above!
See you tomorrow evening.
Just in case it wasn't clear in my post above, I am voting for putting points in just 2 skills (Bluff and Intimidate) for our Swashbuckler, thus leaving the Favored Class Bonus free to go to +1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day, to get this started early.
Presenting Teberus von Goodbrandy, our completed halfling swashbuckler.
Also, Final PC #3 Update:
Counting ONLY submissions with 2 or more votes, we have...
2 votes for human (Shoanti) bloodrager;
5 votes for slothful male human wizard with slothful cat familiar;
3 votes for a lecherous bard; and
2 votes for a human (Varisian) investigator
Tomorrow afternoon I will close the voting and we will begin fleshing out our third PC.
^Going with the +1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day?
^Going with the +1/4 uses of Charmed Life per day?
That is correct.
AND NOW!
PC #3 is confirmed: slothful, male human wizard!
1.) It's time to make some decisions about our wizard. Here's what we know right off the bat:
a.) He's human. And lazy.
b.) He won't choose any archetype or option that forfeits a familiar.
c.) Said familiar will be a cat. The cat is also lazy.
With that in mind...
2.) Here's what we need:
a.) Will our wizard use any archetype(s)?
b.) Archetype(s) allowing, will our wizard specialize in any particular school of magic? I believe that conjuration is the school associated with sloth as per the conventions of Thassilonian sin magic, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case with ours.
c.) How will we spend our 20-point-buy? Where will our human +2 bonus go?
d.) We have two feats to spend!
e.) In order of priority, what skills are important to us?
2(a): No archetype
2(b): conjuration!
2(c): int! A slothful wizard wouldn't be particularly dexterous, and certainly not strong. Spending something in Con would be nice
2(d): Spell focus (conjuration), Augment summoning
2(e): K(history), K(arcana), Linguistics (Thassilonian), Spellcraft, Appraise
2(a): Agreed, the archetypes given do not seem impressive.
2(b): Reading up on some of the Thassilonian schools, if our mage does go Thassil-conjuration, he gets an equivalent to magehands.
Too lazy to pick up stuff himself, and instead says 'come over here!'
2(c): high int, weak-willed, but perhaps healthy.
possible spread: str (7) dex(14) con(14) int (18 +2) will (8) cha (9)
2(d)spell focus(conjuration), toughness
2(e) K(arcana), Spellcraft, Linguistics (thassilonian), craft (something, books?), handle animal ('No, kitty, get back here! Bad kitty!'), use magic device, K(nobility), K(history)
2(f) traits: either scholar of the ancient or merchant family, followed by magical lineage
{. . .}
AND NOW!PC #3 is confirmed: slothful, male human wizard!
1.) It's time to make some decisions about our wizard. Here's what we know right off the bat:
a.) He's human. And lazy.
b.) He won't choose any archetype or option that forfeits a familiar.
c.) Said familiar will be a cat. The cat is also lazy.
And the cat is also gluttonous. Think Garfield, but with Nermal sociability. Or actually, think this.
With that in mind...
2.) Here's what we need:
a.) Will our wizard use any archetype(s)?
b.) Archetype(s) allowing, will our wizard specialize in any particular school of magic? I believe that conjuration is the school associated with sloth as per the conventions of Thassilonian sin magic, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case with ours.
My original concept was Thassilonian Specialist (Conjuration: Teleportation), without other archetypes. Wizard archetypes before the Advanced Class Guide/Advanced Class Origins and Familiar Folio (other than a couple of non-Human racial archetypes that are okay) are generally bad unless you are building something weird, whereas I've heard people say that Exploiter (introduced by ACG) is good to the point of being overpowered; the other one (Spell Sage) seems like it would be good only if you were going to be a Universalist anyway (which on further study seems to me to be true of Exploiter also, although in that case it's not too shabby), and the Familiar Adept, Pact Wizard, Spirt Binder, and Spirit Whisperer might have their uses. The reason behind this concept (and being a Dhampir in the original concept) was that he was going to be the Sloth Mage to go up against the Greed Mage -- in other words, Slacker versus Robber Baron. However, I had the twist that he didn't really mean to be Slothful, and was cursed with it. Hence the Tainted Spirit Drawback (which is not for us here since no Drawbacks allowed) and the Accursed Story Feat (gained at 1st level) reskinned for vampiric taint instead of fiendish taint. While in Rise of the Runelords, he would be on a quest to cure his curse, although at the start not having a clue how to go about this.
c.) How will we spend our 20-point-buy? Where will our human +2 bonus go?
Since we're going 20 point buy instead of 15 point buy, but Human instead of Dhampir, and partially cutting back his Dex and slightly boosting Con as Something Wicked posted in between your post and mine:
Str 10, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 18(*), Wis 10, Cha 14(**)
(*)Human bonus +2 goes here.
(**)For Use Magic Device, and besides, I like the idea of a Wizard who is actually decent with other people, and besides, if he was Slothful AND rubbed people the wrong way, he would have a hard time surviving outside his home.
d.) We have two feats to spend!
Three if you count Wizard's 1st level Scribe Scroll.
Human Bonus Feat: See above = Accursed (Story Feat).
1st Level Feat: Spell Focus(Conjuration)Note: At very low levels, Summon Monster has such short duration and summons such weak monster that you probably don't want to rush the summoning series of feats THAT much.
While we're at it, let's do traits:
Campaign Trait: Scholar of the Ancients -- gets +1 trait bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) checks, and ability to speak and read Thassilonian (without needing to spend a point on Linguistics).
Magic Trait: Dangerously Curious -- gets Use Magic Device in class, not so important for most Wizards, but highly important for a Thassilonian Specialist, who will need it for activating devices to cast spells from Prohibited Schools. If not pumping Charisma like above, use Pragmatic Activator instead (this is also a Magic Trait, so you can't combine them even with Additional Traits).e.) In order of priority, what skills are important to us?
Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(History), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, 2 open skills, or if this Wizard is still from a noble background, put 1 of these in Appraise and 1 of these in Knowledge(Nobility).
Some further food for thought while we deliberate on our wizard:
If we choose to specialize in conjuration, which two schools will constitute our opposition schools?
Meanwhile, tell a friend about this thread! Keep the dream alive!
Good points made Arcane. I would like to know how physically healthy the sloth wizard is going to be. Just because he does not exercise doesn't mean he is ill; it just means that there is correlation.
What about this spread?
str 8 dex 12 con 14 int 18* wis 10 cha 14
dumping some str for more con. He may be a slowpoke, but he can last long enough. Does he starve a bit? No problem. Lift a weight? He has no need.
with int at 18, our human wizard will have 7 skill points, opting favored class to hp.
Skill point distribution depends on whether the wizard is of nobility (works for the government) or some other group.
I can agree that the basic skills would be the ones listed above: Knowledge(Arcana), Knowledge(History), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
If of noble background:
K(Nobility), diplomacy,
If a merchant/trader:
Appraise, K(local)
For fun:
Handle Animal. (It would explain how he deals with his cat, no?)
If he's a sin magic specialist (sloth), his banned schools are already chosen: evocation & illusion. I'm ... mostly good with that, though at 1st-2nd level we'll miss having color spray.
On skills, I agree on the 4 core skills, then it is useful and appropriate him to have a rank in appraise - no need to take it further at higher levels - a rank in ride goes well with sloth, and one more knowledge, probably nobility works well enough.
Oh, and hi all.