Fun times Swashbuckler Question

[N. Specter]

OK So we are playing a very over the top campaign. There are a lot of wacky hijinks going on and I am running a Swashbuckler.

My question is; With Dervish Dance, and the Swashbuckler's precise strike deed, can I use my off hand for a natural attack? It specifically says no weapon or shield for both of them, and I am wondering is this falls under that or not.

This is not a super optimized way to play; all for fun.

[kestral287]

The short answer: Ask your GM.

The long answer: there are two distinctly different ways that Precise Strike has been interpreted. One is that the "hand" you're not allowed to use refers to a character's off-hand, so he is only allowed to make main-hand attacks and natural weapon attacks. Under this interpretation, yes, you may attack with your claw or slam.

The other interpretation is that it refers to your literal hand. In this case, no, you may not attack with a claw or slam. You may, however, use Armor Spikes, a Dwarven Boulder Helmet, or similar weapons to engage in Two-Weapon Fighting without losing Precise Strike.

In either instance you may freely use any natural attack not associated with a hand, such as a Bite or Gore.

[N. Specter]

That is pretty much the way I had interpreted it. Thank you for the clarification!

In the event of using a natural weapon or attack, such as a slam, is that treated like two weapon fighting or something else? I've seen the "Base attack -5" pop up from time to time.

[Avoron]

Natural weapons don't follow two-weapon fighting rules, although you can use two-weapon fighting also, if you wish.

Basically, you make all the attacks you could normally make with your weapons, then you get all of your natural attacks in addition to that.

When combining both types in this manner, your natural attacks are considered secondary attacks, which means they take a -5 penalty and you only add half of your strength modifier to damage. That penalty can be reduced to -2 with the Multiattack feat.

[DinosaursOnIce]

If you're attacking with weapons while using Natural Attacks all of your natural attacks get treated as secondary natural attacks.

This means they take a -5 penalty on the attack roll and only get 1/2 your strength modifier to damage.

Does that answer your question?

Edit: What Avoron said above ^. It's the "Multiweapon Fighting" Feat.

[N. Specter]

That answers my question perfectly thank you!

While on the subject, if hasted, does the natural attack get a bonus attack as well, or only the first primary attack? I want to say first primary attack.

[DinosaursOnIce]

Generally, when hasted, you get 1 extra attack during a full-round attack action. In this case you could take it with the weapon OR one of your natural attacks.

On a similar note, if your hasted and all you are using are natural attacks, you would get a bonus natural attack, but just one, and you get to pick which attack gets to go twice.

I believe that is how both of these work.

[N. Specter]

That is what I figured, thank you :)

[zza ni]

idk if natural attack is not considered a weapon. it is not a manufactured weapon. but it is called a natrual weapon. you can use weapon focus with it. as well as weapon finesse. take weapon specilization with it ,and fighteer may take a weapon group that include it. as far as i can see natural weapon is considered a weapon.
the question is does dervish dance say you can't "hold" a weapon or "use" a weapon?