I had a character which tragically died at around level 8. At the time I was having an absolute blast playing him, he was a juju oracle necromancer. Great fun was had by all (mostly me) but I was looking into remaking him for a higher level game, currently 12, and it seems like necromancy really falls off at mid to high levels. Am I wrong in this? From what I gather, skeletons and zombies just stop having much impact, leaving you with a large pool filled with near useless minions that waste table time and one potentially useful juju zombie.
How useful minions are depends on what exactly you are making them out of, which boils down to what you tend to fight. If you find yourself able to find high HD creatures with lots of strength to convert to Bloody Skeletons you'll be doing okay. Juju Zombies are awesome as they retain all class abilities, but that whole having a mind thing is problematic... really I found the best thing to make Juju zombies out of is a teammate. Preferably one who volunteers while alive or at least dies of natural causes first and thus can't complain ("I brought you back, y u mad??"). It's pretty much a straight upgrade.
Now, the biggest thing I see is that create undead seems unfortunately limited as the undead created by it don't go into a controlled pool like animate dead. Any way to get those improved undead under your control? Other than just the command undead feat or the gravewalker witch ability?
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HowFortuitous - see guideline 2.
some basic guidelines for minionmancy:
1: always have desecrate up when animating undead. ALWAYS. the bonuses are huge and it's only 50g for a scroll if you cant cast it natively, or 500g (?) for a darkstick to have infinite desecrate on demand (ignore the second effect, it's a horrific waste of a useful item and lots of effort), so there is almost no reason not to have it whenever possible. the ONLY time this doesnt apply is if you're a wordcaster; the undeath wordspell doesn't have any interaction with desecrate, so you can't use it's numerous advantages in this one case.
2: NEVER, EVER use undead that are intelligent or that create spawn: the former because the instant they're free (and they get checks to resist every day and every time you give them an order they dont like, eventually they're gonna succeed) they're going to try and kill you, and the latter because their spawn arent under your control (so they tend to balloon into a huge issue if left unchecked). since the create undead spell's list is filled with creatures with one or both of these things, the spell should be largely removed from your brainspace.
3: streamline your paperwork on your minions' stats. streamline your paperwork on your minions' stats. streamline your paperwork on your minions' stats. it's written that much because it's important. otherwise your DM will hate you and your party will complain about how much time you're taking on your turns checking your numbers.
4: your minions are an investment (in both time and gold), manage them as such. keep an eye on your 'buckets' and on how long you're able to command undead for (whichever the case may be), since overflow can be a pain to clean up and is a waste of onyx/money.
5: bloody skeletons (high STR brutes at or under 10HD--hill giants are great), fast zombies (things with multiple attacks, mounts and carrior platforms), and juju zombies (things with class levels) are templates that should always be in use unless you are forced not to for some reason. keeping your horde up-to-date with more powerful undead is hard work, but worth it if you want them to remain useful into the later game (and dont be afraid to get rid of some weaker ones if a good corpse comes along for you to animate).
6: take note of undead's immunities; use those to your advantage. skeletons immune to cold? you can drop AoE cold spells on your minions and enemies they're fighting without worry. throw cloudkill spells into the crowd and laugh, etc.
Guideline 2 and guideline 5 contradict each other. One states to never use intelligent undead and the other gives advice for juju zombies which can't be made without create undead and are intelligent. Playing a juju oracle who never makes juju zombies makes me sad. Why juju if you won't juju?
Guideline 2 and guideline 5 contradict each other. One states to never use intelligent undead and the other gives advice for juju zombies which can't be made without create undead and are intelligent.
I think the unsaid caveat to guideline 2 is something like: "Unless you know they will be friendly to you, e.g. dead PCs or highly trusted NPC followers." If you go that route then direct magical control is not necessary to get them to do what you want in general, even if you aren't actually declaring their actions.
Juju zombie is pretty much a straight upgrade mechanically so if you have morally ambiguous allies, PC or NPC, sometimes it can be more beneficial to use Create Undead on them than to just Raise them.
Is there any way to maintain control of sentient undead in a semi-reliable fashion? I don't even need perfectly reliable. I just want to have a few juju zombies to toss at enemies.
Is there any way to maintain control of sentient undead in a semi-reliable fashion? I don't even need perfectly reliable. I just want to have a few juju zombies to toss at enemies.
Command Undead (either the feat or the spell) is pretty much your only option. If they were originally humanoids, an undead bloodline Sorcerer could use Dominate Person on them. No matter what, they're always one successful saving throw away from breaking away from your control.
Necromancers work just fine at high levels. I'd suggest using animate dead and your escalating animation pool to raise some choice beasties who pack a whallop as undead.
The create undead chain can still be very helpful, even if you don't directly control said undead. It depends on your GM, but there is something to be said for "intelligent undead" not wanting to mess with whoever had so much power as to make them - it's likely said person also has the power to unmake them. And even if this is not guaranteed, an intelligent undead would be wise to make certain, before planning a potential escape from, or attack on, its master.
-Nearyn
Guideline 2 and guideline 5 contradict each other. One states to never use intelligent undead and the other gives advice for juju zombies which can't be made without create undead and are intelligent.I think the unsaid caveat to guideline 2 is something like: "Unless you know they will be friendly to you, e.g. dead PCs or highly trusted NPC followers." If you go that route then direct magical control is not necessary to get them to do what you want in general, even if you aren't actually declaring their actions.
Juju zombie is pretty much a straight upgrade mechanically so if you have morally ambiguous allies, PC or NPC, sometimes it can be more beneficial to use Create Undead on them than to just Raise them.
this guy gets it, though yes, i should've worded it more clearly.