Or you could do something *really* evil and use the Charm Monster SLA, multiple times on the same person. Sound pointless? Well if you want to uncharm someone you'll need to dispel each and every instance of it. And since it's an hour per level spell, in the span of a mere 10 minutes, a succubus can stack 100 instances of Charm Person.
*GM smile*
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If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly.
Everybody expects the manipulator succubus who uses her wiles. Nobody expects the succubus who spams the party with Charm Monster before rushing into melee in a berserker rage.
If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly.
Everybody expects the manipulator succubus who uses her wiles. Nobody expects the succubus who spams the party with Charm Monster before rushing into melee in a berserker rage.
Shame that tanks the SLA's DCs.
Someone made a reference to Helen of Troy that this reminded me of. The face that launched 1,000 ships... but before she was Helen of Troy she was Helen of Sparta. I actively endorse people giving the succubus a surprise so that parties get shocked out of their comfort zones.
That reminds me...
Q. How many Helen of Troys does it take to launch 1 ship?A. 1 Milli-Helen.
[ducks]
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Shame that tanks the SLA's DCs.If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly.
Everybody expects the manipulator succubus who uses her wiles. Nobody expects the succubus who spams the party with Charm Monster before rushing into melee in a berserker rage.
Huh?
Giving PC classes gives +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2...so four levels of Barbarian can give you a succubus with Str 18 (+1 from leveling, remember) Dex 19 Con 22 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 31. That's a CR 9 with DC 24-25 on the good stuff. That's still way higher than normal for the CR and 2 higher than a standard succubus.
They won't be using spell-like abilities while Raging, but it's a valid choice.
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I'm fond of whip wielding Kensai Succubi myself. I mean, Vamperic Touch is just waiting there as a SLA, begging for a spellstrike. Bonus points for looking just like a regular old Succubus.
Shame that tanks the SLA's DCs.If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly.
Everybody expects the manipulator succubus who uses her wiles. Nobody expects the succubus who spams the party with Charm Monster before rushing into melee in a berserker rage.
Huh?
Giving PC classes gives +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2...so four levels of Barbarian can give you a succubus with Str 18 (+1 from leveling, remember) Dex 19 Con 22 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 31. That's a CR 9 with DC 24-25 on the good stuff. That's still way higher than normal for the CR and 2 higher than a standard succubus.
They won't be using spell-like abilities while Raging, but it's a valid choice.
Probably referring to this clause of Charm Person:
If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
I'm fond of whip wielding Kensai Succubi myself. I mean, Vamperic Touch is just waiting there as a SLA, begging for a spellstrike. Bonus points for looking just like a regular old Succubus.
Unless I'm missing something, only Magus spells can be used on a spell strike, no SLAs.
Weapon Finesse can work pretty well for the succubus. A succubus Anti-Paladin with Shield Slam could also have fun knocking good aligned PCs off of high places.
I wonder what the OP was getting at with the idea of getting outside of people's comfort zones. Are we talking about forcing PCs into actions which might make their players uncomfortable? Most groups have some taboos or sense of decorum, but I'd guess that they probably vary a lot.
I wonder what the OP was getting at with the idea of getting outside of people's comfort zones. Are we talking about forcing PCs into actions which might make their players uncomfortable? Most groups have some taboos or sense of decorum, but I'd guess that they probably vary a lot.
I think he's talking about succubus concepts outside of the DnD-standard and more towards other concepts. DnD 5E kinda does this.
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The most dangerous thing you can possibly do to any outsider is give them one fighter level and a full plate. At that point they've got AC FAR FAR IN EXCESS of level appropriate.
Meh. Any succubus can get a +1 Mithral Chain shirt for only slightly more than that (2k vs. 1.5k). Add in the mere +1 Max Dex of Full Plate and that only gives +2 AC over what they can get naturally without the level (AC 25 with the Chain Shirt, AC 27 with the Full Plate).
All you're really saying is 'give them good armor and they get hardcore'. Which is true, but not notably more or less true if you give them Class Levels.
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Does inspiring a 900 post thread count as 'using to full potential'?
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I'd use that succubus to her full potential if you know what I mean.
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The most dangerous thing you can possibly do to any outsider is give them one fighter level and a full plate. At that point they've got AC FAR FAR IN EXCESS of level appropriate.
Heck, just giving full plate to warriors can be brutal enough. Had a GM one time who had us facing off against warriors with Full Plate and shields at level 1-2. Most of us had to roll a 17+ to hit, even with Bless and flanking.
I'd use that succubus to her full potential if you know what I mean.
Who wouldn't?
I'd use that succubus to her full potential if you know what I mean.Who wouldn't?
Gotta be careful though as they aren't actually immune to disease...
Never underestimate a wizard! ...or a succubus.
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If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly.
Everybody expects the manipulator succubus who uses her wiles. Nobody expects the succubus who spams the party with Charm Monster before rushing into melee in a berserker rage.
Wait . . . something seems to be missing here. What you want are INQUISITOR class levels. Nobody expects the Abyssal Inquisition!
They are not really combat creatures with how I see them, but they are good for manipulation. If I were to have one in combat I would more than likely have meat shields with her in the back trying to mind control everyone.
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They are not really combat creatures with how I see them, but they are good for manipulation. If I were to have one in combat I would more than likely have meat shields with her in the back trying to mind control everyone.
It's pretty clear that this is the Succubus's intended use. Her Save DCs are really absurd for her CR...enough so that she's still a very effective mastermind/leader for a CR 10 or so encounter.
However, that doesn't mean combat class Succubi aren't effective and scary. Racially, she's got +2 Str, +6 Dex, +10 Con, and eight d10 hit dice of Full BAB. That's a pretty solid combat chassis if you toss on some levels of a combat class...which will be at 1/2 CR Increase for at least the first 6. +14 BAB with at least 147 HP is nothing to sneeze at on a CR 10.
They are not really combat creatures with how I see them, but they are good for manipulation. If I were to have one in combat I would more than likely have meat shields with her in the back trying to mind control everyone.It's pretty clear that this is the Succubus's intended use. Her Save DCs are really absurd for her CR...enough so that she's still a very effective mastermind/leader for a CR 10 or so encounter.
However, that doesn't mean combat class Succubi aren't effective and scary. Racially, she's got +2 Str, +6 Dex, +10 Con, and eight d10 hit dice of Full BAB. That's a pretty solid combat chassis if you toss on some levels of a combat class...which will be at 1/2 CR Increase for at least the first 6. +14 BAB with at least 147 HP is nothing to sneeze at on a CR 10.
Yeah but once you modify a monster it is really something different so I was only speaking of the stock monster.
As an example even throwing breastplate on a humanoid shaped monster can give it incredible AC for its CR.
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Yeah but once you modify a monster it is really something different so I was only speaking of the stock monster.
As an example even throwing breastplate on a humanoid shaped monster can give it incredible AC for its CR.
Oh, totally. But even a single level in, say, Swashbuckler, can make a Succubus quite the melee character.
And now I want to play one of those sometime...
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Yeah but once you modify a monster it is really something different so I was only speaking of the stock monster.
As an example even throwing breastplate on a humanoid shaped monster can give it incredible AC for its CR.
Oh, totally. But even a single level in, say, Swashbuckler, can make a Succubus quite the melee character.
And now I want to play one of those sometime...
That's a lot of Panache.
Yeah but once you modify a monster it is really something different so I was only speaking of the stock monster.
As an example even throwing breastplate on a humanoid shaped monster can give it incredible AC for its CR.
Oh, totally. But even a single level in, say, Swashbuckler, can make a Succubus quite the melee character.
And now I want to play one of those sometime...
I made a succubus cleric once, but never got to use it, but one day..
How about a paladin succubus? All that charisma has it's uses.
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Succubi are considered combat monsters so the following core classes are considered disassociated for them: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Monk, Sorcerer, and Wizard (by proxy we can probably assume that Alchemist, Oracle, Ninja, Magus, and classes similar to the above are unassociated).
As a result, it's actually not terribly hard to get some fun variants of succubi without inflating their CR to obscene degrees. For example, being CR 7 normally, 7 levels of wizard will net you a CR of 10, but will allow you to have a more mystical succubus. Alternatively, tossing some prestige classes such as Eldritch Knight or Arcane Archer on them could be fun. In fact, due to their SLAs and the nonsensical FAQs, you can probably turn them into some eldritch horror with a mixture of spellcasting required prestige classes worthy of a Lovecraftian smut magazine.
In other words, be creative and have some fun. :P
I'm fond of whip wielding Kensai Succubi myself. I mean, Vamperic Touch is just waiting there as a SLA, begging for a spellstrike. Bonus points for looking just like a regular old Succubus.Unless I'm missing something, only Magus spells can be used on a spell strike, no SLAs.
"Spell from the Magus spell list" is the exact wording, which vamperic touch certainly is. Nothing about it actually having to use a Magus spell slot. Now, of course you could argue the intent is that the spell really does have to be cast as a Magus spell, but if I'm in a position to use a Succubus there's a 95%+ chance I'm also in a position to pull the "I'm the DM and I'm allowing it because it's cool, and frankly you lot could use a bit of a challenge, I'm far too generous with the loot" card.
How about a paladin succubus? All that charisma has it's uses.
Wizards of the Coast actually did something like that a few years back.
It's not really a new concept, but clerics are also pretty good as succubi, specially if they get Aligment Channel.
How about a paladin succubus? All that charisma has it's uses.Wizards of the Coast actually did something like that a few years back.
A succubus paladin seeking redemption, at that!
The title of this thread is just... wow... so many thoughts trying to get out of my head...
If you want to be insanely evil, give the succubus class levels and adjust some stats accordingly....
Yeah, a while back we got hit with a succubus with a bunch of ninja levels and multiple uses of a high level vampiric touch. That was incredibly painful.
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... is she just a demon done up in sexy?
“Just”?
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How about a paladin succubus? All that charisma has it's uses.Wizards of the Coast actually did something like that a few years back.A succubus paladin seeking redemption, at that!
** spoiler omitted **
And then some knights sent by a wizard arrived...
It's honestly funny how none of the Paizo books get to say "Dungeons & Dragons" because of copyright, and instead say "The World's Oldest Roleplaying Game". It's like they're trying to avoid saying "Beetlejuice" three times.
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** spoiler omitted **How about a paladin succubus? All that charisma has it's uses.Wizards of the Coast actually did something like that a few years back.A succubus paladin seeking redemption, at that!
** spoiler omitted **
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Stuff.
An alright idea, but I think it sells other demons short on their capacity to plan and exploit weaknesses, and utilize what others know for those ends.
Almost any demon has some capacity to wreak its favored sin in a social context. Glabrezu come most prominently to mind, peddling wishes that turn against the wisher. Hezrou may seek to pollute a community with drugs and other toxic thrills. Balors command entire legions of demons.
That said, I'm guessing Glabrezu likely frequent the Sisters Market quite regularly.
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I like the Sisters Market.
What I was talking about is turning the succubus into a genuine horror concept. That would require getting under a player's skin, and as anyone who's been at a table knows fear and sexuality can often be very uncomfortable for some people. The overt tone of rape (mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and physically) that comes with a succubus's very existence is something that's rarely played out, but if a group was interested in those dark places it's very possible to go there.
I had a succubus possess a wizard PC's estranged wife. She asked for his help and subtly hinted that there might be a possibility for reconciliation, used him (and the party) to destroy her enemies, and then killed a rival who the party had captured and who had knowledge of her crimes. This blew her cover, so she held the wife hostage in an attempt to coerce the wizard into "keeping the guard busy" while she completed her scheme. The wizard crit a bluff check to convince the succubus that she had successfully seduced him - physically and morally - and he led her into an ambush. (I did give her a few levels in ninja to make her more of a combat challenge.) The party barely managed to rescue the wife, but not before the wizard briefly got a profane gift that dropped him to about 2 Cha when ripped out.
We didn't get too explicit, but there were definitely some moments that were very uncomfortable for the characters.
I consider her one of my best villains.