RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If you look at the actions described in the Core Rulebook (Combat chapter), you'll see that the catch-all action of "manipulate an item" is a move action.
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat.
It doesn't explicitly list "hand an item to someone else", but it does list putting away/storing an item, and I think it's reasonable that putting something into its container (or other storage location) would be comparable to putting the same item into someone's grip.
Even balance-wise (because there are some people who think ANYTHING not explicitly listed will be "unbalancing" if it takes anything less than a standard action), you can explicitly drop the item as a free action and have the mantis (or whoever else) pick it up as a move action, so it's clearly appropriate for the net cost of the transaction to be a single move action.
I'm pretty sure your animal would need the fetch trick to pick up/grab the item, and the deliver trick to give it back to you.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'm pretty sure your animal would need the fetch trick to pick up/grab the item,
Probably not an issue for a companion, you know? ;)
and the deliver trick to give it back to you.
It doesn't need to give it back to you, it just needs to not try to keep it away from you when you pick it back up. And a GM who says that the item retrieved with "fetch" will be withheld from the master until a different trick is performed, well...
I'm pretty sure your animal would need the fetch trick to pick up/grab the item,Probably not an issue for a companion, you know? ;)
companions still need to be trained....not sure what you are getting at.
and the deliver trick to give it back to you.It doesn't need to give it back to you, it just needs to not try to keep it away from you when you pick it back up. And a GM who says that the item retrieved with "fetch" will be withheld from the master until a different trick is performed, well...
I'd certainly allow you to get back an item without the deliver command...but to get it back with a single move action...yeah that takes deliver and is what the trick is for.
So I am a hunter with a mantis companion I use as a mount. I usually wield a lance but sometimes I want to free up the hand. Can I pass off the lance to the mantis. The mantis can grab and I just want it to hold it for me, not wield it. If so, how would it work? Would it be a free action for both of us, free for me and move for mantis or vice versa? Wild it be a trick I need to train. The character is in pfs.
You can normally use a lance one-handed while mounted--is that somehow different when you're mounted on a mantis?
So I am a hunter with a mantis companion I use as a mount. I usually wield a lance but sometimes I want to free up the hand. Can I pass off the lance to the mantis. The mantis can grab and I just want it to hold it for me, not wield it. If so, how would it work? Would it be a free action for both of us, free for me and move for mantis or vice versa? Wild it be a trick I need to train. The character is in pfs.You can normally use a lance one-handed while mounted--is that somehow different when you're mounted on a mantis?
I imagine he has a shield in his other hand, or wants both hands free.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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companions still need to be trained....not sure what you are getting at.I'm pretty sure your animal would need the fetch trick to pick up/grab the item,Probably not an issue for a companion, you know? ;)
All I was meaning is that companions have enough tricks that having that one on the list is easy enough.
I'd certainly allow you to get back an item without the deliver command...but to get it back with a single move action...yeah that takes deliver and is what the trick is for.and the deliver trick to give it back to you.It doesn't need to give it back to you, it just needs to not try to keep it away from you when you pick it back up. And a GM who says that the item retrieved with "fetch" will be withheld from the master until a different trick is performed, well...
I don't have the text for Deliver in front of me, but it's already a fact of the rules that picking up an item within your reach is a move action. Whether it's in a sheath, on the ground, on a table in an adjacent square, or whatever; it's a move action to reach out and grab it into your hand. I fail to see why having the item's location be "in my mantis' grip" suddenly makes it harder to grab it.
I would expect if you could retrieve it as a move action without a trick than so could anyone else. If you are expecting your companion to not let your opponent just grab hold of your lance, than you probably need the deliver trick.
You might be able to get away with one trick or another...in re-reading deliver it includes taking an object from one person and giving it to another, so you could probably just have it deliver it to you. Retrieving the item from an animal is a move equivalent action, it doesn't say what, if any, action giving an item to an animal is (manipulate an item also?).
I'd probably rule that with fetch it is a free action for you and a move eq. for your companion to take an item. Without fetch, you would actually have to manipulate the item to the animal.
I would probably though allow a single trick 'hold' that would do everything, but wouldn't have the added flexibility of deliver and fetch. The OP said this was for PFS though, so if I wanted to make this an important part of my build I would definitely take both tricks.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Yeah, to be on the safe side, I'd take the "Fetch" trick. Since it's a companion, you just need a free action to basically tell it "Here, hold this" and then a move action to hand it off. Later, spend a move action to take it back, per the rules for grabbing stuff within your reach.