Hey there, I have been starting to run a Kineticist in PFS, and I will be posting my thoughts and experiences on it here.
Here is the build at level 1.
Natsu
Human Kineticist 1
Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 7
AC 16, Touch 13, Flat 13 (Studded Leather)
Saves: Fort 6, Ref 5, Will 2
Skills: Know(nature) 5, Perception 5, Stealth 7, Use Magical Device 2
Element: Fire
Wild Talent: Burning Infusion
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits: Reactionary, Indomitable Faith
Gear:
Studded Leather
Light Crossbow
Thoughts:
I used this ability score spread because I figured it would be good to first get my damage up to 1d6+2 with a con of 18, and then focus on increasing my Dex from there. Though, having a Dex of only 16 may have been a mistake and I am thinking of using a 1st level rebuild. I like having a character with skills, so I was unwilling to dump Int down to 7 like many other people have.
I felt forced to choose to play a human so that I could have Precise Shot before level 3. I would really recommend that there be a Wild Talent or something that lets the character gain Precise Shot at level 1 without having to play a human. I also felt like I had to pick a trait for a will save bonus.
Game 1: Emerald Spire level 1 (SPOILERS!)
The party here consisted of six players: my Kineticist, a Barbarian, a fighter, a magus, a cleric, and an oracle. This was a very melee oriented party: I was the only one with a ranged attack. I suffered for this because this game consisted of narrow corridors that the melee almost always blocked, so I had essentially a constant -4 to hit that canceled out my touch attack advantage. If I wasn't playing a human I would have had a -8 to hit constantly due to the lack of Precise Shot.
The entire area was also covered in magical darkness, and I had to rely heavily on the magus using dancing lights in order to be able to see my targets. Most of the rest of the party had darkvision.
It was not a very good opening game for the Kineticist, lol. I also found it odd that my character, who could summon fire at will, had to rely on other people's light sources to see further than his own torch.
Encounter 1: goblins at the entrance
We could not see into the fort because of the magical darkness, so Natsu had to rush in with the melee in order to target anything. We fought 5 gobins and two goblin dogs over the course of several rounds. Natsu used his Kinetic Blast about four times, but missed each time. I had to sit out two rounds because the light sources were't lined up in such a way that I could blast anything. Felt kind of useless here.
Encounter 2: goblin barracks
Finally got a few hits in. Got a clear shot on one goblin and hit it for max damage, dropping it in one hit. Rolled a 20 to hit another one with Fire Blast+Burning Infusion. Burnt it for 5, and then it caught fire for another 2 and died.
This brought up a question. The rules for catching fire in the environment section says that you automatically take 1d6 damage when you fail the save. Does it work this way for burning infusion as well, or do they not take damage until the following round?
Next we ran into a construct backed up by a goblin cleric. I couldn't see the cleric, so I focused on the construct. I hit it once, and to my relief found that it wasn't immune to magic. I was able to ignore its DR, but only did 3 damage and it made its reflex save to not catch fire. The melee finished off the construct, the cleric, and two other goblins that came in later. I missed two more attacks fired at the goblins.
A few knowledge religion and and arcana skill checks came up, but my character didn't have points in any of the related skills.
Encounter 3: Found two gobins by the stairs. I got a clear shot to fire at one, but missed with a 2. The melee killed everything.
Encounter 4: Bugbear on the roof.
The melee managed to kick the door in and we started rushing in the room. However, we delayed killing the thing because it briefly tried to Parlay. We were feeling too bloodthirsty, and tried to kill it before it escaped. We failed, Natsu missed once. This was a point where I would have found the Extended Range wild talent to be useful because I could have shot at it from the window.
Final Thoughts:
I felt pretty useless throughout this game, though admittedly part of this was because of bad rolls and unfavorable conditions for ranged attacks. Out of about 10 blasts, I only hit three times. Even with the unfavorable conditions, I felt like I was running a character who was supposed to be designed for combat who simply wasn't very good at combat. The frightening thing is that if I was playing a non-human things would have been *even worse* because I wouldn't have had precise shot!
I guess a good class to compare this to at this point would be a gunslinger (since I was using my move actions to reduce burn, that is similar to reload). The gunslinger would have similar average damage on a hit, higher attack due to full bab and the ability to focus on DEX, more skills, and a longer range. I would say a gunslinger's grit and the kineticist's wild talents are comparable.
The kineticist seems like it needs *something* extra for low levels. Especially the Pyrokineticist since it is supposed to be all about damage, but I don't see anything it does that is much better than a Elemental Sorcerer using his backup elemental rays. I feel like things will be worse at level two because some archers will have Rapid Shot at this point while I will still just be going for 1d6+2 per round.
Aside from a lot of the usual things that people are recommending like full BAB and bonus feats, I think something the pyrokinetisist could use is a low level AOE attack. Such an ability would have worked wonders in this situation since I could have worked around the -4 attack penalty from cover that I was dealing with.
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Just a thought on a simple way to let Kineticists to choose a 'combat style' at 1st level. Package in a bonus feat with certain existing Wild Talents. For example:
Extended Range grants Precise Shot
Kinetic Fist grants Improved Unarmed Strike
These would be permanent feats, not just ones that are active when burn is being used. The idea is that if the character is choosing a Wild Talent to use his Kineticist powers in a certain way, he shouldn't be having to spend a bonus feat as well to use it.
Having recently played the same module, I can safely say that it's simply not a good test for many characters. Ranged attacks and limited vision, combined with low mobility that prevents you from repositioning away from cover? No bueno.
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Having recently played the same module, I can safely say that it's simply not a good test for many characters. Ranged attacks and limited vision, combined with low mobility that prevents you from repositioning away from cover? No bueno.
True, though I didn't really have a way of knowing this ahead of time ;)
I have to say though, I don't think having more lighting or maneuverability would have changed much in this game. The biggest problem for me was that there was really no where I could go in order to get a clear shot. Unfortunately, this sort of cramped dungeon crawl stuff happens all the time for adventurers! I might have to try and fit in Kinetic Blade as an alternative way of dealing damage, but with the concentration checks I'm not sure it is worth it.
In my opinion though, part of a measure of a class is how well it can function in non-ideal circumstances. If its primary ability can be rendered ineffective too easily then that shows that the class either needs more variety and support powers or needs to be extremely effective when it is in ideal conditions. Right now I'm seeing neither of these qualities in the Kineticist.
I guess I'll just have to see how things go in the next level/senario. Not sure what the next game will be.
Having recently played the same module, I can safely say that it's simply not a good test for many characters. Ranged attacks and limited vision, combined with low mobility that prevents you from repositioning away from cover? No bueno.True, though I didn't really have a way of knowing this ahead of time ;)
I have to say though, I don't think having more lighting or maneuverability would have changed much in this game. The biggest problem for me was that there was really no where I could go in order to get a clear shot. Unfortunately, this sort of cramped dungeon crawl stuff happens all the time for adventurers! I might have to try and fit in Kinetic Blade as an alternative way of dealing damage, but with the concentration checks I'm not sure it is worth it.
In my opinion though, part of a measure of a class is how well it can function in non-ideal circumstances. If its primary ability can be rendered ineffective too easily then that shows that the class either needs more variety and support powers or needs to be extremely effective when it is in ideal conditions. Right now I'm seeing neither of these qualities in the Kineticist.
I guess I'll just have to see how things go in the next level/senario. Not sure what the next game will be.
Welcome to the joy (and perhaps pain) of the kineticist :)
I agree with you on your comment. It's how a class functions in a real module...not ideal conditions you can theorycraft.
Oh if this helps, Kinetic Blade is used as part of an attack action. No concentration check to avoid AoO needed. Spend your move action to gather power and avoid the burn. And for you it's a melee touch attack.
My hydrokineticist did not take Kin Blade (he just hit 3) because I'm testing the more controllery aspects with Slick and Kinetic Cover.
Hmm, I thought Mark said that Kinetic Blade currently requires a concentration check? Honestly, the thought of having only a 50% chance of even getting to make the attack roll has made me wary of using that power (along with the burn). Plus I'd need the Weapon Finesse feat as well....
You know, this is making me realize that Kinetic Blade really has too many downsides for its effect at level 1. I'd have to take damage just to move and attack, plus the class has low armor in the first place. It *might* require a concentration check as well, and requires Weapon Finesse if you aren't going to give up on ranged blasts. Getting Weapon Finesse means delaying Precise Shot. Kind of a bad combination.
It is starting to sound more and more like that this class (at low levels) needs to just ignore its class abilities and use a normal weapon in narrow corridor dungeon situations.
Mark has returned and mentioned in a new post the Kinetic Blade doesn't provoke when used. That makes me very interested in trying a low level switch hitter build with my Kineticist. The main problem is that in order to do this I'd have to give up Precise Shot for Weapon Finesse, and I'll probably also need to increase my Dex in order to have survivable AC.
Yeah, especially if you use the third dimension and simply snake over the heads of your allies and plink your opponent from above.
I mean, walls exist. But still, good point.
Walls? Bah, Tremor sense and Snaking is where it's at... (other that that whole AC and DR thing lol).