A big fat hairy wad of Arcanist questions


Rules Questions


18 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

Most Important and Contentious Text in class description:
On page 9 of the ACG it states that "Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells an arcanist can prepare."

These will go in order of difficulty (note that I am a terrible judge of difficulty).

  • Can an arcanist take Spell Mastery, as per the witch and alchemist FAQ?

  • Can an arcanist take Preferred Spell to add a spell to his list of prepared spells per day? That is, can he be considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell for purposes of the feat so long as he has access to it and the ability to prepare a spell of that level, or does he only considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell while it is on his spells prepared list?

  • As an extension of the question above, if the arcanist is only considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell while it is prepared, does that mean that he cannot take a feat such as Destructive Dispel unless they have dispel magic or greater dispel magic prepared for the entirety of the leveling process and temporarily lose access to the feat whenever they have not prepared one or the other?

  • Same question for Dimensional Agility, Detect Expertise, etc.

    It says on page 9 of the ACG that "Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells an arcanist can prepare." It says under the Bloodline Development exploit that "If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline."

  • Does this mean that an arcanist with this exploit and a level of sorcerer adds the bloodline spells to his list of spells prepared? Does an arcanist with this exploit and a level of arcane sorcerer increase his number of spells prepared with the New Arcana ability? If so, is it a generic increase of +1 at the level chosen, or does he select a single spell to add to his list of arcanist spells as if it were permanently prepared?

    I understand that there was a rather confusing FAQ whose purpose seemed to be controlling the ability of oracles to abuse Eldritch Heritage (arcane) and paragon surge, prior to the nerf of paragon surge. How does that apply to the arcanist?

  • Same question regarding the arcane bloodline and the Eldritch Heritage feats.

  • Given the existence of the Expanded Preparation feat, am I to assume that the arcanist does not qualify for the special prerequisites of Expanded Arcana, given that the feats are essentially identical save for a crucial limitation exclusive to the arcanist?

  • Can the arcanist take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat? And if he does, must he select two specific cantrips and permanently add them to his list of prepared spells, as the feat would do if he were a sorcerer, or, per the text on page 9, does he just gain 2 extra spell preparation slots of level 0?

  • Since the Flexible Wizardry feat was printed in the ACG and not before, and that the feat has the word "wizardry" in the name, I am going to take as a given that the wizard level prerequisite is non-negotiable. However, if an arcanist with 1 level of wizard has this feat, can he apply it to arcanist spells? The language of the feat does not specify "wizard spell slots," only "spell slots," and the words "prepared" and "spell slots" is used by both the arcanist and wizard classes, albeit with slightly different mechanical outcomes, and there is a way to parse this feat so that it interacts with the arcanist casting mechanism without having to reinterpret or "fudge" a single word. But is it supposed to do that?

  • Can an arcanist with the Sacred Geometry feat apply it to a spell prepared with metamagic without knowing the metamixing exploit?

  • Can an arcanist with Spell Perfection apply metamagic to a spell prepared with metamagic without using the metamixing exploit?

  • How does Greater Spell Specialization work with arcanist spells, if at all?

  • Can an arcanist wearing a ring of spell knowledge cast the spell stored in the ring by expending a slot of equal or higher level as if it were one they had prepared that day? Or do they not count as spontaneous arcane spellcasters for purposes of using this ring?

  • Can an arcanist use a page of spell knowledge, or do they not count as a spontaneous caster for purposes of using the item?

  • Can an arcanist use a pearl of power?

  • Can an arcanist use a runestone of power, or do they not count as spontaneous spellcasters for purposes of using this item?

  • Can an arcanist use the Magical Epiphany feat? If so, how does it work?

  • Can an arcanist with the Blood Arcanist archetype take the Bloodline Intensity, Mythic Bloodline, or Bloodline Immunity archmage path abilities?

  • Can an arcanist with the school savant archetype take the Flexible School, Harmonious Mage, or Mythic School archmage path abilities?

  • Can an arcanist take the Perfect Preparation or Rapid Preparation archmage mythic path abilities? And if so, how do they work?

  • Can the arcanist take the Divine Knowledge archmage mythic path ability?

  • Can an arcanist use mnemonic vestments?

  • Shadow Lodge

    Jesus thats a lot to cover, im dotting this, for when i have more time...


    Oooh, Wads... my favorite.

    Can an arcanist take Spell Mastery, as per the witch and alchemist FAQ?
    Spell mastery is still wizard-only, as written, unless houseruled otherwise. It seems they can if they dip into wizard or it's otherwise houseruled, and it doesn't seem like it would interact with the Arcanist in any particularly different way, as it modifies no quantities.

    Can an arcanist take Preferred Spell to add a spell to his list of prepared spells per day?
    There doesn't seem to be any hint this'd add to his list of prepared spells. He merely can cast it spontaneously. Since he assumably knows the spell in question and it's assumably of low enough level, he's able to cast it.

    As an extension of the question above, if the arcanist is only considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell while it is prepared, does that mean that he cannot take a feat such as Destructive Dispel unless they have dispel magic or greater dispel magic prepared for the entirety of the leveling process and temporarily lose access to the feat whenever they have not prepared one or the other?
    He would be considered able to cast the spell regardless of preparation. A wizard is considered "able to cast spells of X level" regardless of whether he has them prepared, no?

    Same question for Dimensional Agility, Detect Expertise, etc.
    Same answer as above for Dimensional Agility, Detect Expertise, etc.

    -=Bloodlines!=-

    Does this mean that an arcanist with this exploit and a level of sorcerer adds the bloodline spells to his list of spells prepared? Does an arcanist with this exploit and a level of arcane sorcerer increase his number of spells prepared with the New Arcana ability? If so, is it a generic increase of +1 at the level chosen, or does he select a single spell to add to his list of arcanist spells as if it were permanently prepared?
    Assumably, those brand new sorcerer bloodline spells are only able to be cast as a Sorcerer, and thus irrelevant. The exploit changes function; it simply becomes a "Your sorcerer bloodline now counts you as a sorcerer of X+Y level". But you'd still need to level in sorcerer to actually cast them. Unsure about this, though.

    I understand that there was a rather confusing FAQ whose purpose seemed to be controlling the ability of oracles to abuse Eldritch Heritage (arcane) and paragon surge, prior to the nerf of paragon surge. How does that apply to the arcanist?
    Post links to this confusing oracle issue, please?

    -Feats!-

    Given the existence of the Expanded Preparation feat, am I to assume that the arcanist does not qualify for the special prerequisites of Expanded Arcana, given that the feats are essentially identical save for a crucial limitation exclusive to the arcanist?
    Correct. For whatever reason it was designed, the Arcanist cannot choose the Expanded Arcana feat, due to the special prereq

    Can the arcanist take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat? And if he does, must he select two specific cantrips and permanently add them to his list of prepared spells, as the feat would do if he were a sorcerer, or, per the text on page 9, does he just gain 2 extra spell preparation slots of level 0?
    Two extra cantrip-level preparation slots. It modifies the number of spells known by two. You thus gain two preparation slots.

    Since the Flexible Wizardry feat was printed in the ACG and not before, and that the feat has the word "wizardry" in the name, I am going to take as a given that the wizard level prerequisite is non-negotiable. However, if an arcanist with 1 level of wizard has this feat, can he apply it to arcanist spells?
    With a dip in wizard, Sure you qualify. But the Arcanist's "Quick Study" exploit is everything you need, minus the entire class dip and feat.

    Can an arcanist with the Sacred Geometry feat apply it to a spell prepared with metamagic without knowing the metamixing exploit?
    Assumably, yes, though in every scenario it'd be fair to assume that metamagics of the same type do not stack.

    Can an arcanist with Spell Perfection apply metamagic to a spell prepared with metamagic without using the metamixing exploit?
    Same with Spell Perfection. Heck, that can even be used on a spell you spontaneously add metamagic to.

    How does Greater Spell Specialization work with arcanist spells, if at all?
    Not sure what complications arise with Greater Spell Specialization. Seems straightforward. Expand?

    -Items!-

    Can an arcanist wearing a ring of spell knowledge cast the spell stored in the ring by expending a slot of equal or higher level as if it were one they had prepared that day? Or do they not count as spontaneous arcane spellcasters for purposes of using this ring?
    Ring of spell knowledge...Indeed confusing. Get back to you on that.

    Can an arcanist use a page of spell knowledge, or do they not count as a spontaneous caster for purposes of using the item?
    Page of spell knowledge... Applicable only to spontaneous casters. So, no, Arcanist would not apply. they prepare.

    Can an arcanist use a pearl of power?
    Urggh...Brain hurt. By RAW, it seems like No effect; a prepared spell is never used by an Arcanist, only the spell slot is. Preparing it a second time has no purpose. However, it seems more than reasonable to assume they regain a spell slot instead.

    Can an arcanist use a runestone of power, or do they not count as spontaneous spellcasters for purposes of using this item?
    Not spontaneous caster. So no.

    Can an arcanist use the Magical Epiphany feat? If so, how does it work?
    Seems legit. Works exactly as described. An arcanist would need to leave a preparation slot open, though, which is a significant disadvantage to them. Then again, I'm not sure if anyone but a wizard can.... looking up... But you have Quick Study...

    -Mythic stuff!-

    Can an arcanist with the Blood Arcanist archetype take the Bloodline Intensity, Mythic Bloodline, or Bloodline Immunity archmage path abilities?
    Archmage whatnow ..No knowledge on those. Postpone'd / cover later.

    Can an arcanist with the school savant archetype take the Flexible School, Harmonious Mage, or Mythic School archmage path abilities?
    Same as above

    Can an arcanist take the Perfect Preparation or Rapid Preparation archmage mythic path abilities? And if so, how do they work?
    ...

    Can the arcanist take the Divine Knowledge archmage mythic path ability?
    *brain melt*

    Can an arcanist use mnemonic vestments?
    Not a spontaneous caster. So no.

    WHEW!


    Can an arcanist take Spell Mastery, as per the witch and alchemist FAQ?
    "As written, no, as the feat's prerequisite is "1st-level wizard."

    However, the feat was written before the existence of the alchemist, magus, and witch classes, and it is a perfectly reasonable house rule to allow those classes to select the feat and apply its benefits to an alchemist's formula book, magus's spellbook, or witch's familiar."
    So in the part saying it's a fine house rule, yes add the arcanist to the list.

    Can an arcanist take Preferred Spell to add a spell to his list of prepared spells per day? That is, can he be considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell for purposes of the feat so long as he has access to it and the ability to prepare a spell of that level, or does he only considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell while it is on his spells prepared list?
    Yes, taking this would basically mean he preps that spell every day for free.

    As an extension of the question above, if the arcanist is only considered to "have the ability to cast" a spell while it is prepared, does that mean that he cannot take a feat such as Destructive Dispel unless they have dispel magic or greater dispel magic prepared for the entirety of the leveling process and temporarily lose access to the feat whenever they have not prepared one or the other?
    An arcanist can cast any spell in his book. Just like if a wizard has a spell in his book and never prepares it he counts as being able to cast that spell.

    Same question for Dimensional Agility, Detect Expertise, etc.
    same answer as above, I figure most of those feats are kinda worthless if you don't have the spell. But yes you have the feats even if you didn't prepare the spell that day.

    It says on page 9 of the ACG that "Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells an arcanist can prepare." It says under the Bloodline Development exploit that "If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline."

    Does this mean that an arcanist with this exploit and a level of sorcerer adds the bloodline spells to his list of spells prepared?
    NO, just for the bloodline powers, this doesn't increase the bloodline feats or spells.

    Does an arcanist with this exploit and a level of arcane sorcerer increase his number of spells prepared with the New Arcana ability?
    Yes. treat the spell as if you prepared it each morning without using up a resource.

    If so, is it a generic increase of +1 at the level chosen, or does he select a single spell to add to his list of arcanist spells as if it were permanently prepared?
    1 spell permanently prepared.

    I understand that there was a rather confusing FAQ whose purpose seemed to be controlling the ability of oracles to abuse Eldritch Heritage (arcane) and paragon surge, prior to the nerf of paragon surge. How does that apply to the arcanist?
    You'll be fine since you run off the same spell list.

    Same question regarding the arcane bloodline and the Eldritch Heritage feats.
    same answer.

    Given the existence of the Expanded Preparation feat, am I to assume that the arcanist does not qualify for the special prerequisites of Expanded Arcana, given that the feats are essentially identical save for a crucial limitation exclusive to the arcanist?
    no. The expanded preparation gives you an extra spell to cast. Expanded Arcana would let you prepare additional spells in the morning to have as options throughout the day.

    Can the arcanist take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat?
    yes, he can prepare two more cantrips a day to cast though
    out the day.
    And if he does, must he select two specific cantrips and permanently add them to his list of prepared spells, as the feat would do if he were a sorcerer, or, per the text on page 9, does he just gain 2 extra spell preparation slots of level 0?
    I'd say it's permanent, but it does increase the spells prepared amount by 2, so not breaking that page 9 text.

    Since the Flexible Wizardry feat was printed in the ACG and not before, and that the feat has the word "wizardry" in the name, I am going to take as a given that the wizard level prerequisite is non-negotiable. However, if an arcanist with 1 level of wizard has this feat, can he apply it to arcanist spells? The language of the feat does not specify "wizard spell slots," only "spell slots," and the words "prepared" and "spell slots" is used by both the arcanist and wizard classes, albeit with slightly different mechanical outcomes, and there is a way to parse this feat so that it interacts with the arcanist casting mechanism without having to reinterpret or "fudge" a single word. But is it supposed to do that?
    no because of the different mechanical outcomes of prepared for the two classes.

    Can an arcanist with the Sacred Geometry feat apply it to a spell prepared with metamagic without knowing the metamixing exploit?
    don't know anything about that feat. I feel it's stupid/broken and don't consider it an option.

    Can an arcanist with Spell Perfection apply metamagic to a spell prepared with metamagic without using the metamixing exploit?
    yes, the feat trumps the arcanist ability.

    How does Greater Spell Specialization work with arcanist spells, if at all?
    just like you'd expect. You can cast that spell using a slot it's level or higher and can add metamagics to it, like a cleric.

    Can an arcanist wearing a ring of spell knowledge cast the spell stored in the ring by expending a slot of equal or higher level as if it were one they had prepared that day?
    I'd say yes, it's "adding" to spells known
    Or do they not count as spontaneous arcane spellcasters for purposes of using this ring?
    answered above.

    Can an arcanist use a page of spell knowledge, or do they not count as a spontaneous caster for purposes of using the item?
    yes they can use it.

    Can an arcanist use a pearl of power?
    I think not, because you're not using a prepared spell to have refreshed.
    Can an arcanist use a runestone of power, or do they not count as spontaneous spellcasters for purposes of using this item?
    Yes they can use this.

    Can an arcanist use the Magical Epiphany feat? If so, how does it work?
    I'd say it would let him pick a spell to know for the day, if an arcanist can leave those open during the day.

    Can an arcanist with the Blood Arcanist archetype take the Bloodline Intensity, Mythic Bloodline, or Bloodline Immunity archmage path abilities?
    I don't know, haven't used mythic.

    Can an arcanist with the school savant archetype take the Flexible School, Harmonious Mage, or Mythic School archmage path abilities?
    I don't know, haven't used mythic.

    Can an arcanist take the Perfect Preparation or Rapid Preparation archmage mythic path abilities? And if so, how do they work?
    I don't know, haven't used mythic.

    Can the arcanist take the Divine Knowledge archmage mythic path ability?
    I don't know, haven't used mythic.

    Can an arcanist use mnemonic vestments?
    I'd again say yes. I feel once you've prepared your spells for the day, you're a spontaneous caster from those.

    SO MANY QUESTIONS but a lot of pretty good ones.


    ElementalXX wrote:
    Jesus thats a lot to cover, im dotting this, for when i have more time...

    Same.

    Shadow Lodge

    Flagged for FAQ


    Bane Wraith wrote:


    Does this mean that an arcanist with this exploit and a level of sorcerer adds the bloodline spells to his list of spells prepared? Does an arcanist with this exploit and a level of arcane sorcerer increase his number of spells prepared with the New Arcana ability? If so, is it a generic increase of +1 at the level chosen, or does he select a single spell to add to his list of arcanist spells as if it were permanently prepared?
    Assumably, those brand new sorcerer bloodline spells are only able to be cast as a Sorcerer, and thus irrelevant. The exploit...

    Hmm... I retract my answer here. I agree with Chess Pwn's, on both matters, and recognize that the exploit does not grant spells.

    PRD wrote:


    ... when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.


    It's silly to claim that an arcanist is not a spontaneous caster. So arcanists can use runestones but not pearls of power.


    1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

    Are arcanists considered spontaneous spellcasters or prepared spellcasters?

    The designers really should have considered how to make that clear before releasing the class.

    Dark Archive

    I think arcanists are intended to be spontaneous casters for the purpose of runestones. They have spells per day which they expend, which is in line with spontaneous casting.


    They Prepare spells. It seems pretty clear to me that they are Not spontaneous casters. They *Must* prepare their spells.

    PRD wrote:


    An arcanist must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the arcanist decides what spells to prepare and refreshes her available spell slots for the day.

    The only likeness to a sorcerer is their ability to spontaneously apply metamagic feats by increasing the caster time.Otherwise, they're essentially a modified wizard; They prepare spells, but don't lose them once cast. Instead their casting is limited to their daily limit of spells per level. Druids and Clerics can expend slots in order to cast particular spells as well; yet they are not counted as spontaneous casters.

    Even if they have the potential to benefit from an item, the item itself will not work for them because they are not Spontaneous Casters.

    Of course, this is easy to houserule otherwise... I'm merely reading it as strictly according to the RAW as possible


    Ooh! Another question!

    If an arcanist doesn't have access to their spellbook, can they still spend an hour in quiet meditation to regain spell slots and use the exact same list of prepared spells they had the previous day, or do they need the spellbook to regain daily spell slots at all?


    Thelemic_Noun wrote:

    Um, arcanists are radically different from any of those other spellcasting classes in terms of their casting mechanic. Apart from the interactions between prepared metamagic spells and metamagic feats applied on the fly, they work like sorcerers that can change their spells known each day.

    Also, there was a class with the same casting mechanic created during 3.5, called the spirit shaman, and it was considered a spontaneous caster.

    Not 3.5. And yes, they are different, but the example was to demonstrate that even though a class is capable of 'spontaneously' casting using spell slots (usually a particular spell, like Cure spells or Summoning spells), they are still not considered Spontaneous casters.

    As for the "they work like sorcerers that can change their spells known each day" ...They don't. They work like wizards that don't lose their prepared spells, and can cast them up to a daily limit. That's the way the class is described in the PRD, even if that description is nearly identical to the whole sorcerer concept.

    PRD wrote:
    Spells: An arcanist casts arcane spells drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An arcanist must prepare her spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, her spells are not expended when they're cast.

    Lastly, it's important to note how the Magic section in the PRD classifies a spontaneous caster:

    PRD wrote:
    Most spellcasters prepare spells in advance—whether from a spellbook or through prayers—while some cast spells spontaneously without preparation.

    This above all should clinch the argument. Arcanists Prepare Spells. Period.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    If an arcanist doesn't have access to their spellbook, can they still spend an hour in quiet meditation to regain spell slots and use the exact same list of prepared spells they had the previous day, or do they need the spellbook to regain daily spell slots at all?

    No. They regain the slots While studying their spellbook.

    PRD wrote:
    An arcanist must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the arcanist decides what spells to prepare and refreshes her available spell slots for the day.


    Still plenty of confusion here.


    .


    Well, then how about refining down your questions, pose the ones that still seem controversial? Make a new list. You've had two people tackle the whole tangle, with varied results. Many others are dotting and probably are ready to tackle a few individual questions.


    I believe Arcanists should be considered spontaneous casters. They do not prepare spells like a wizard (Vancian Casting) instead what they are preparing is spells available (described as known for other spontaneous classes) with spells, which they can then spontaneously cast.

    Basically an Arcanist is a spontaneous caster with the special ability to vary spells known based upon wizard-like knowledge. This is referred to as preparation, but it is fundamentally different then preparing individual spell slots.


    Dave Justus wrote:

    I believe Arcanists should be considered spontaneous casters. They do not prepare spells like a wizard (Vancian Casting) instead what they are preparing is spells available (described as known for other spontaneous classes) with spells, which they can then spontaneously cast.

    Basically an Arcanist is a spontaneous caster with the special ability to vary spells known based upon wizard-like knowledge. This is referred to as preparation, but it is fundamentally different then preparing individual spell slots.

    ...If you've looked at everything I've just posted and quoted, how can you say that? The rules most certainly don't seem to reflect it.

    1) They prepare spells.
    2) We see the definition of a spontaneous caster is one that casts Without preparation.
    3) They're described, in the wording under the Spells section of their class, as prepared casters with a slight difference from wizards; Not as spontaneous casters.

    Even if you personally can relate them to a sorcerer that selects 'spells known' daily, the rules and their description does not denote this, and that should be reflected in the mechanics handling prepared and spontaneous casters.


    Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    Arcanists prepare spells and then cast them spontaneously. They clearly meet the requirements for being prepared spellcasters. Whether they qualify as spontaneous casters depends on the exact wording of the ability -- for example, they would not qualify as being able to "cast arcane spells without preparation". There may be wordings for abilities of prepared casters that they also do not meet.


    Bane Wraith wrote:

    ...If you've looked at everything I've just posted and quoted, how can you say that? The rules most certainly don't seem to reflect it.

    1) They prepare spells.
    2) We see the definition of a spontaneous caster is one that casts Without preparation.
    3) They're described, in the wording under the Spells section of their class, as prepared casters with a slight difference from wizards; Not as spontaneous casters.

    Even if you personally can relate them to a sorcerer that selects 'spells known' daily, the rules and their description does not denote this, and that should be reflected in the mechanics handling prepared and spontaneous casters.

    Like I said, they don't exacly prepare spells. A wizard or cleric would prepare one individual spell for each of his daily spells. Say 2 magic missiles and a sleep. Each slot is prepared. An arcanist doesn't do that. They do prepare, but they aren't preparing their spells per day, they are preparing their 'Spells Prepared' feature, something only they have and which is more analogous to Sorcerer Spells known than anything they have.

    When the definition for spontaneous caster was written, the two categories were clear. What we have now is something like this:

    "Most spellcasters prepare spells in advance—whether from a spellbook or through prayers—while some cast spells spontaneously without preparation. A few cast spells spontaneously WITH preparation."

    Their description is that they are UNLIKE a wizard, and it explains how. This is to explain to people how they work, and the description does a good job of that. It could have just as easily been written the other way.

    Obviously Arcanists are a blending between spontaneous and prepared casters. That is the core of what they are. However, I submit they are more like spontaneous casters than they are like prepared spell casters. The core concept of a prepared caster is that an individual spell is prepared and then expended with cast. The core concept of a spontaneous caster that have certain spells available, but they get to spontaneous choose any of them as long as they have an appropriate slot.

    Note that spells known feats effect an arcanists special 'spells prepared' in much the same way that it does a sorcerer. Simlarly a pearl of power would be meaningless to an Arcanist, because casting a spell does not cause it to be no longer prepared. However, a Runestone of power makes perfect sense for them, because they can sponaneously choose to cast any of the spells they have prepared.


    Your interpretation of the rules is most certainly not abiding by the RAW; You seem to be confusing what's written down with the particular 'flavor' of the class, and it's important to get the clear ruled difference when it comes down to mechanics of items and feats.

    Likening and comparing it to a class that doesn't prepare spells serves no purpose but to muddy the water, in that respect. Arcanists prepare spells, and that is clearly how they are meant to be classified.

    The mechanics treat them that way. They have a particular exception in how "spells known" and "Spells prepared" are treated for them Because they take from both concepts; But they are clearly Prepared Casters.

    The only reason I say the items or feats don't work for an arcanist, is because the items clearly note that only Spontaneous casters can benefit from them in certain ways.

    Appending " A few cast spells spontaneously WITH preparation" is acceptable in houserules, Not as a legitimate Pathfinder rule. There isn't at all sufficient evidence that it's Intended that way either. That should never be confused, especially in a rules forum.


    Except for the spontaneous side of things, they have that line that says anything that increases spells known increases how many you can prepare. And all those are dealing with spontaneous, and the comparison is that the spells you prepare is the same as the spells known for a spontaneous caster. I'm not saying this proves one or the other. They definitely are prepared casters as the text says. But they might have more spontaneity to them than you think.


    My point is that Arcanists prepare spells after a fashion, but they spontaneously choose which one to cast. The Arcanist class doesn't specifically define which they should be counted as, but the common meaning of the language employed leads to them being a spontaneous caster.

    A prepared spell is a spell that is prepared and expended when cast. A spontaneous spell is available to be case as long as slots are available. Until the arcanist, the availability feature was always spells known. the Arcanist has instead spells prepared, but once again these are fundamentally different in concept and mechanics from a wizard or cleric spells prepared. They are fundamentally similar to a sorcerer spells known.

    Interpreted that way, the various magic items in question make perfect sense and maintain game balance. When it comes to actual casting of spells, Arcanists use the spontaneous, not the prepared mechanic. Hence, they are spontaneous casters.

    I don't think you can use a description of two fundamentally different types of casters that existed before their was a blended mechanic class to determine which type of caster that is.

    I will admit that it would have been useful if this had been explicity clarified in regards to other things besides the spells known type feats. However, I am absolutely certain that when they get around to clarifying it, Paizo will say Arcanists can use Runestones but not Pearls of power etc.


    There are alot of questions. I'll comment just on one I've been considering before reading this post.

    Pearls of power should be able to be used by Arcanists. They should replenish the spell slot. Here is my reasoning.

    First forget prepared or spontaneous. Arcanists are a mix of the two.
    Arcanists prepare their spells. When casting their spells, they expend a spell slot of that level.
    The pearl, once per day, enables the possessor to recall any spell that was prepared and cast that day. That spell is then prepared again, **just as if it had not been cast**.
    The spell has been prepared so the pearl can have an effect. The effect of the spell not having been cast is that the spell slot would still be available. So, the spell slot would still be available upon use of the pearl of power.

    That is rules as written. I do believe the rules as intended would imply this as well.


    Runestone of Power

    I believe this would have no benefit to an arcanist.

    Even if you believe arcanists cast spontaneously, you must admit that they can only cast certain spells spontaneously on each individual day. It is specifically stated that they are not potent aids to spellcasters that have the option to spontaneously cast certain spells. That implies that the arcanist does not get aid from this item.

    Exploring further into the description of this magic item says that a spontaneous spell caster, using this item, does not expend the spell slot. That description could be interpreted as possibly stating that the arcanist would benefit from this effect. However, given the previous paragraph, this seems not to be the case and instead suggests that the arcanist could not be classified as a spontaneous spell caster in general, even if it could be said to be a spontaneous spell caster in some specific instances.


    Let me throw a few more messy questions into the mix here.

    -An Exploiter Wizard with the School Understanding Exploit takes a level of School Savant Arcanist. Does he gain a full arcane school as a result? (My presumption is yes, but I'd love someone else to look it over).

    -An Arcanist takes a level of wizard, then selects the mythic path ability Flexible School. Does the School Understanding Exploit allow him to add his Arcanist level to the chosen school through School Understanding (effectively allowing him to have multiple schools at full HD)? My assumption is no, but some interesting wording here. By (useless) RAW I think the answer may be yes.

    -Can an Arcanist with the Bloodline Development exploit use it in conjunction with the Eldritch Scion archtype for the Magus by taking 1 level of Magus? Can they take it with the Magus & Sorcerer at the same time (assuming they select the same bloodline) to receive a Sorcerer and Bloodrager bloodline? (I assume the answer is yes, based on my reading).

    Interesting stuff though all around.


    An important thing to note about an Arcanist is the line:
    "Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells an arcanist can prepare."
    Which interacts with the human racial favored class option of learning an additional spell each level in an awkward way.


    Disregard my comment about the FC option. It adds to the spellbook not spells known. A very important distinction.


    2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

    How about this one that nobody seems to be able to answer: Can an arcanist leave spell slots open to prepare spells as needed later?

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