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In many settings, there exists an order dedicated to keeping balance within the world in the form of protection from interplanar influence and interaction, hunting down abusive users of magic, harmful and evil artifacts... the list goes on, however the abuse of magic is a very real problem in every fantasy setting. Be it the destructive effects necromancy could have upon the environment and balance, or even the destructive effect an overflow of positive energy could have, the Spellbreakers are those who will hound the culprits of such misuse to the ends of the planet, while travelling to lands influenced by such effects and ridding them of their corruption.
In the setting of Eberron, for instance, spellbreakers would best be suited in the faction of the Valentar elven warriors.
Another example could be an individual who hates such magical misuse so much that, in fact, he devoted his life to learning how to counter it.
Another use for this class could involve a police force within a city full of wizards, or a royal guard within a kingdom of magic. So on and so on.
These are, no doubt, powerful combatants within a fantasy setting. The amazing drawback the possess, however, is that they are weak against purely martial classes, with no spells in their repertoire (Fighter, Barbarian). Who would have though such a thing possible, huh?
Take this with a grain of salt, however. The Spellbreaker is by no means an ineffective melee combatant, but he is certainly no match for the Fighter's... feats, or the Barbarian's combat fury due to the rather spread out abilities a Spellbreaker requires. (Intellect, Dexterity, Strength (Can be mitigated with finessable weapons, such as the Elven Curve Blade, for instance.) and Constitution. Quite MAD, but, in my opinion, allows this class to keep a certain balance to it.
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If I were to describe its overall progression through the levels, I would certainly say it is a rather slow one at earlier levels, unlike the other martial classes, saved only by the single bonus feat at 2nd level to allow a smoother time during the first three levels.
Come 3rd level, the class gains a rather juice repertoire of abilities, allowing it to rather effectively steal enemy buffs and mitigate his MAD status with a stolen Bear's Endurance, for instance. Not too bad, but not fantastic either.
Starting 4th level, the Spellbreaker starts to pick up speed with Spellbane, the fear of any spellcaster unlucky enough to allow a spellbreaker in his face. His second ability is rather nice, but situational.
5th level keeps rising that pace with Spell Sunder, giving the Spellbreaker all the tools he needs to lock down those pesky mages and clerics. He may not be able to take down that man in heavy plate, but he can certainly prevent their cleric from aiding his allies, or the mage from hindering his own.
7th level, Spellflux! The Spellbreaker isn't that handicapped against his melee enemies now, is he? He can pack a punch, if he manages to get his hands on a 3rd or 4th level spell and succesfully sunder it. (Which he may not, really. Has to be careful what spells he chooses to know and Spellhound.) Makes enemy spellcasters alot more weary of doing what they do best!
13th level, Energy Channel! Another effect to keep the Spellbreaker marginally competent in combat that doesn't involve magical users alone. He could throw a fireball at his enemies, if he can get his hands on a spell of an appropriate level, which certainly helps!
16th level, Greater Spellbane! The pace is rising ever higher as spellcasters are starting to drop right and left because they didn't realise who they were up against. That 8th level spell you were trying to cast just exploded for 40 damage into your face! Assuming the sunder succeeded.
17th level is actually more of an attempt to help Spellbreakers with their MAD issue. I know, it comes a bit late, but you've got Spellhound to help you out in earlier levels.
19th level, shamlessly stolen from the Inquisitor archetype.
20th level... I was running out of ideas, but this seemed thematically appropriate. A spellbreaker just walking out of a giant fireball with barely a scratch?... Well, there's probably something more appropriate out there, but it didn't dawn upon me. Ideas appreciated.
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Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Spell Resistance, Studied in the Art
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Spellhound, Bonus Feat
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Spell Steal 1/day
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Anti-Magic Fortitude, Spellbane
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Spell Sunder I
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Spell Steal 2/day
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Spellflux
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Bonus Feat
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Spell Steal 3/day
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Spell Sunder II
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Improved Anti-Magic Fortitude
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Spell Steal 4/day
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Energy Channel
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Bonus Feat
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Spell Sunder III, Spell Steal 5/day
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Greater Spellbane
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Spell Annihilation
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Spell Steal 6/day
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Total Immunity
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Spell Sunder IV, Total Resistance
Alignment: Must be Lawful.
D10
4 points + int.
Proficient in all simple and martial weapons. Proficient with all armor and shields barring heavy armor and tower shields.
Spell Resistance (Ex):
The Spellbreaker’s knowledge and devotion to the cause of rooting out the effects of misused magic and hunting down of renegade spellcaster grants him spell resistance at 1st level equal to: 10 + his spellbreaker level + his INT mod. The Spellbreaker may choose which spells to apply it to as a non-action, effectively allowing him to receive beneficial effects from allies, while blocking out the harmful ones from enemies.
Studied in the Art (Ex):
A true Spellbreaker must not only show resolve for his cause but also take time in thoroughly studying the arts of magic in order to know best how to deal with it. At 1st level, he gains half his Spellbreaker level to his Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion) and Spellcraft checks.
In addition, the spellbreaker also gains a spellbook, as a wizard. His spell progression is identical to that of a wizard, gaining the same amount of spells learned per level as them. However, no spellcasting progression, effectively making the spellbreaker unable to cast any of the spells he knows, unless possessing spellslots from other classes.
Spellhound (Su):
At 2nd level, whenever a spell is being cast, the Spellbreaker is able to sense it, allowing him to make the appropriate skill check to determine said spell. If the Spellbreaker succeeds in his check, he gains a +2 insight bonus to all saves against it and increases the DC of any Spellbreaker class ability used against it by 5.
In addition, at 5th level, the Spellbreaker gains +1 insight bonus on sunder checks made to use Spell Sunder against spells he successfully identified. This bonus increases to +2 at level 10, and increases by another +1 every 5 levels thereafter. (15, 20.)
If the Spellbreaker knows the spell (aka in his spellbook), the bonuses fo Spellhound double.
Bonus Feat (Ex)
The Spellbreaker, besides being an anti-magic combatant is also a rather skilled warrior. The Spellbreaker’s level is counted as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats such as Weapon Focus.
Spell Steal (Su)
At 3rd level, the Spellbreaker may steal a magical effect as a swift action for himself once per day. This may be used to take off harmful effects off of allies or beneficial effects off of enemies. In addition, the Spellbreaker is skilled on sustaining these effects upon himself and may choose to change the duration of them to 1 hour + his Spellbreaker level. (21 hours at level 20.) To keep the effect(s) up upon himself, the spellbreaker must be conscious and awake, however.
The range of this effect is 30ft.
His target may make a will save in order to negate this effect with a DC of 10 + half the Spellbreaker’s level + his INT mod.
At 6th, 9th and every three levels thereafter, the spellbreaker gains an additional use of this ability per day. (6/day at 18th.)
Anti-magic Fortitude (Ex)
Whenever the Spellbreaker succeeds a will or fortitude save, the effects of the spell is entirely negated instead of halved. If the spell is negated by a successful will or fortitude save, he is instead granted a +2 bonus to said saves.
Spellbane (Su)
Whenever the Spellbreaker makes a strike at an enemy with any kind of leftover spells per day, that opponent must make a will save equal to 10 + half the spellbreakers level + his INT modifier. If he fails, the target loses his highest available spellslot level and takes its level x the Spellbreaker’s CHA mod as damage.
Spell Sunder (Su)
At 5th level, the Spellbreaker can now attempt to sunder an ongoing spell as it is being cast or effect placed on an ally or enemy. To sunder a spell, he must succeed a CMD of 15 + the level of the spell being cast + half the caster level of his opponent. To sunder an effect, he must succeed a CMD of 5 + the level of the spell used to create this effect. If the Spellbreaker succeeds his sunder check, the spell is immediately interrupted and an effect is immediately dispelled.
The maximum range at which this can be done is 15 ft. At 10th, 15th and 20th levels, this range increases by another 5 ft. Spells cast within the reach of Spell Sunder (Su) automatically provoke an attack of opportunity, allowing the Spellbreaker to attempt a Spell Sunder, even if they normally wouldn’t, but only if the Spellbreaker succesfuly identifies them using Spellhound.
Spellflux (Su)
Whenever the Spellbreaker sunders a spell or effect, he may grant his armor, shield or weapon an enhancement bonus equal to its level for 1d4 rounds. (A 9th level spells makes it a +9, yep. But then again, you just sundered a spell that could rewrite reality itself. Yeah.) This stacks with actual enhancement bonuses provided from magical weaponry.
Improved Anti-Magic Fortitude (Su)
Even if the Spellbreaker fails a will or fortitude save, the effect is halved. His save bonus increases to +4.
Energy Channel(Su)
At 13th level, whenever the Spellbreaker succesfully resists or sunders a spell, he may channel the residual energy of that spell into his own spellcasting, effectively granting him a single spellslot equal to the level of the spell cast. However, he may not receive a spellslot above 6th level. When casting in this way, Spellbreaker’s casting DC is equal to 10 + half the spellbreaker’s level + INT.
Greater Spellbane (Su)
At 16th level, the effects of Spellbane also apply to successful Spell Sunder attempts, henceforth.
Spell Annihilation (Su)
The Spellbreaker’s class abilities increase their DC by 10.
Total Immunity (Su)
At 19th level, the Spellbreaker may choose one school of magic. Henceforth, he is immune to all spells from that school.
Total Resistance (Su)
At 20th level, the Spellbreaker gains 30 resistance against all energy types, barring negative and positive.
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Criticism, reviews and suggestions welcomed!
Wow. I've first thought about a Spellbreaker type class thanks to Warcraft 3. The Blood Elves have a unit called a Spellbreaker in the game. This is a great idea for a class, and the idea has been tossed around occasionally, usually as an archetype for Monks. I've also thought about it for a Magus archetype.
This class has some elements of the long sought after Blue Mage, being able to steal and use the enemy buffs. Being able to shut down enemy spellcasters will make it a favorite among players like mine.
I'm unsure how to pass judgement on the mechanics here. Many of them aren't used in other classes at all. Without a good sense of mechanical balance, I would suggest making most of the abilities based on an arcane pool, like what the Magus and Arcanist have. To sunder a spell, and other abilites, you need at least 1+spell level points in your arcane pool.
But again, I'm not sure if this is balanced or not. If it is, ignore me, because the abilities are really sweet and appear to be worded correctly. If no one else has any major objections, I'll probably steal this for my homebrew.
On another note, I love archetypes and options. What sort of archetypes could you envision for this class, and will you make any?
We have something kind of similar The Conduit. Ours absorbs magic, while yours seeks to nullify it, and wreak it. Reminds me of the mage hunters from the d20 version of Iron Kingdoms.
I do like where this is going and will dot this thread.
~AG
Archetypes...
Lets see. Definitely an archer type.
A slayer/spellbreaker mix, basically a true magehunter with stealth and sword... And anti-magic.
Perhaps a heavy armor focused tank, rather than the implied medium armor usage with the proficiencies.
Tower Shield flavoured anti-magic wall.
Aaaaand... A supporter who cranks that spell-resistance up to high heaven in exchange for all his weapon and armor proficiencies, trading a few offensive abilities in for the ability to share his stupendous magic defenses with allies.
The pool idea floated around in my head for a while, but that would make the class even more MAD. Just think.
To successfully lock down casters, the breaker needs a reasonable Dex score, for attacks of opportunity. To successfully lock down and burn down casters, he also needs a high INT score. To not be useless in combat, he needs STR and CON to boot. If we add a pool that limits his spell breaking options, which will be something like 3+int mod +level, the spellbreaker is going to have a very very tough time being effective at anything.
Meaning he'd have to specialize either on Dex and Int, or STR and Con. That leaves us with only half a class to work with in both cases. Hence, after much thought, I decided to make Spell Sunder as a special combat maneuver option for this class.
Since it was soecifically requested, archetypes on their way!
Your reasoning for not limiting the abilities to a pool is sound. But I don't think Str is really necessary, as Weapon Finese can negate the necessity of that ability score. If I were to play this character, that's the way I would go every time. Unless I had high rolls. If you go with four decent-high scores, I'd go with Wis rather than Str. A higher Willpower would be nice to shrug off spells that the other class abilities don't take care of.
On another note, looks like you forgot the skills!
Looking forward to the archetypes though!
The spell resistance at first level is too strong IMO. With a 10+lvl+int, you have an above average SR, when even low or average SR are rare with player characters. I suggest you to remove the Intelligence scaling on the SR or to keep it, but with a 5+level spell resistance scaling instead of 10.
The rest is well rounded. I seriously think about including it into my own games.
5 + level + int seems rather weaksauce, considering the only levels that increase this SR are Spellbreaker class levels. You can't just invest one level and hop over to another class with stupendous spell resistance scaling. And, considering the class layout, you really won't have an INT over 5, since you're not going to go with 20 to int anyway, most likely at least 14 to make Spellbane useful.(Although, maybe, a duelist dip could help our Spellbreaker a wee bit with his ability scores. Slower progression for a slow-developing class, though. Could come back to slap you in the face later, when you meet a powerful spellcaster and your DCs are just short of what he's capable of.)
That aside, this is an anti-magic specialised class. If it had the same resistances as, say, a monk, that would be somewhat anti-climatic, considering the monk has better saves as well. Imagine having a monk build for anti-spell combat and a spellbreaker in your team... and the monk is better at it due to the various gap closers it has, high jumps to pick off flying targets, movement speed for an extra ki point to reach that caster real fast and so on, so forth. And he has bonus style feats and flurry blows, kind of making him above the Spellbreaker in terms of overall utility. (Both monk and Spellbreaker are quite MAD and require some Weapon Finesse love to be effective, although a monk doesn't -need- it. Dragon Style and all.)
Or even a Magus, just because he has spellcasting? Imagine how lame that would be. A anti-magic specialising class losing to a caster/melee hybrid who isn't even full BAB at mageslaying.
I think that's a bit anti-climatic, in this instance. Perhaps I could drop INT, however, and make it a 15 + level instead? A class specialising in a given field, where others do not, should have something that clearly says: "I'm better at this than you. See this number? You don't get to have it, because you're not me."
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@ Amora Games
They certainly do have that one little bit in common, don't they? Energy Channel and Spellflux sort of hints at a marginal ability to absorb some of the magic they resist or sunder and use it together with their extensive knowledge of arcana.
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P.S.: Spellbane Errata: It's spell level x INT mod. If we added CHA in there, that would make the entire class feature useless. Is this acceptable?
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Drop the level 1 SR. You could introduce it at a higher level, or give the class some kind of limiter, such as a duration or SR vs a specific opponent.
I really didn't want to flood the class with complicated text, but perhaps we could make the SR scale in a different way? Perhaps something like, say, 5 + level. Then at level 5 10 + level and level 10 bringing it to 15 + level finally?
Otherwise, I could keep it as is and move it to level 3. Even if a wizard decided to dip into spellbreaker for 3 levels, he'd simply get an SR 18 assuming he has 20 INT, lose out on spellcasting progression from his actual class and that spell resistance will henceforth never progress, turning those invested levels into quite a bit of a waste.
I'm guessing that's the main concern, yes?
Archetype: The Spellslayer.
Not all spellbreakers challenge spellcasters out in the open, with sword and shield in hand. Some prefer to skulk about in the shadows, waiting to strike the spellcasting scum down when the time is right, while none are there to see. These men sacrifice some of their anti-magic talents to be but a speck more effective in overall combat, as well as perfecting the art of backstabbing.
Proficiencies: The Spellslayer loses all his proficiencies with shields and medium armor.
Skills: Stealth and Sleight of Hand as class skills, losing out some other ones. (I've not yet bother to sit down and think what skills the base class should have, honestly. I know, I really should.)
Saves: The Spellslayer loses his fast fortitude save progression, however gains a fast reflex save progression.
Studied Target (Ex) and Sneak Attack (Ex)
At 1st level, a Spellslayer gains the slayer's studied target class feature. She uses her Spellbreaker level as her effective slayer level to determine the effects of studied target.
In addition, at 3rd level, the Spellslayer gains sneak attack 1d6 die. This die increases by another 1d6 every three levels, until it reaches 6d6 at 18th level.
This ability replaces Spell Steal.
Talented Slayer (Ex)
At 8th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels, the Spellslayer can gain a single slayer talent, including those from the list of rogue talents that a slayer can take, but not an advanced slayer talent.
This ability replaces a bonus feat at level 8 and Spell Sunder II, III and IV (Effectively leaving it at a 15 ft range.)
Evasion (Ex) and Improved Evasion (Ex)
As rogue class feature, at 4th and 11th level respectively.
This ability replaces Anti-Magic Fortitude and Improved Anti-Magic Fortitude.
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Hint: Take immunity to the divination school at level 19. Spellcasters will cry tears.
My main concern for this archetype, as I used a rather standard template for adding a few slayer abilities to a class (Sanctified Slayer, Nature's Fang), is that this class can be rather easily detected by magical effects. But I don't think adding immunity to that at, say, level 10 would be appropriate, because we're basically stealing half the Ninja's capstone. If you've any ideas, I'd love to hear them.
Suggestion: A fun, but feat heavy and very possibly squishy build would be to pump up your Dex and Int, take two daggers, Weapon Finesse, Agile Maneuvers and use all the slayer talents for combat feats or ranger style feats in order to get the Two-Weapon-Fighting feat chain. Then just sneak up and burn all the wizard's spellslots away in one round!
What about 10 + 1/2 class level + Int mod for the Spell Resistance?
Skills: Obviously Knowledge (arcana) is necessary. Probably Knowledge (dungeoneering), (religion) and (planes) as well. Might as well go with all the Knowledges. Then of course, Craft and Profession. Spellcraft too. Perception would be good too, to spot spellcasters who are trying to hide their movements.
Good job on the first archetype!
That puts it below the monk by quite a bit, who has 10 + monk level. Although, yes, the monk gets it at later levels, the monk is also not an anti-mage specific class.
Perhaps putting it at 10 + Level is reasonable, perhaps making Spellhound increase the resistance against an identified spell. Could work.
Drop the level 1 SR. You could introduce it at a higher level, or give the class some kind of limiter, such as a duration or SR vs a specific opponent.
What if you kept the SR at its current beefiness, but limited it to schools like: "spell breakers gets spell resistance 10 + int + spellbreaker lvl against a single school of magic. At lvl 4 and every 3 lvl's thereafter; the spell breaker gains SR against another school of magic, up to 6 schools at 16."
edit: or 2 schools at lvl 1, and an extra school at lvl 5 and every 4 levels thereafter
Then the "spell immunity" class feature would be the capstone to that tree. possibly add the caveat that you can only choose immunity against a school in which you have SR.
granting you resistance against 5 of the 8 schools and immunity to one of them. yes you would still have holes in your defenses. But magic items could make up for that. say a shirt or slotless item that adds 1 shool to resistance feature for standard item, and 2 schools for the greater version.
Archetype: The Spellslayer.
My main concern for this archetype, as I used a rather standard template for adding a few slayer abilities to a class (Sanctified Slayer, Nature's Fang), is that this class can be rather easily detected by magical effects. But I don't think adding immunity to that at, say, level 10 would be appropriate, because we're basically stealing half the Ninja's capstone. If you've any ideas, I'd love to hear them.
Spellhound (Su):
At 2nd level, whenever a spell is being cast, the Spellbreaker is able to sense it, allowing him to make the appropriate skill check to determine said spell. If the Spellbreaker succeeds in his check, he gains a +2 insight bonus to all saves against it and increases the DC of any Spellbreaker class ability used against it by 5.In addition, at 5th level, the Spellbreaker gains +1 insight bonus on sunder checks made to use Spell Sunder against spells he successfully identified. This bonus increases to +2 at level 10, and increases by another +1 every 5 levels thereafter. (15, 20.)
If the Spellbreaker knows the spell (aka in his spellbook), the bonuses fo Spellhound double.
emphasis mine
I could see altering the spellhound feature to give the spellslayer a bonus against being found. example:
In addition, at 5th level, the Spellslayer uses his in depth knowledge of manipulating others magics to hide himself from any magic attempting to perceive him. in response to a spell, and at the beginning of his turn, as spellslayer may roll a spellcraft check, DC 15+ spell level, to attempt to hide from any spell that is attempting to perceive or locate him as an immediate/swift action. A successful check does not cancel the spell, it merely causes the spellslayer to be invisible to the spell untill the beginning of the spellslayers next turn, at which point he may attempt another check.
At level 10 a spellslayer may hide 2 people, at 15-3 people, lvl 20 - 4 people.
if the spellslayer knows the spell (aka in his book) the spellslayer gains a competence bonus equal to 1/4 his spell slayer level.
very rough layout, don't know if it is completely underpowered or useless and leaves a lot to interpretation ATM. but could be a nice foundation to build on.
Another alternative is to have a lessened beefiness to the SR, but then add your intelligence mod against spells you have in your spell book. At later levels, you could theoretically learn all spells, giving you the same effect for a bigger price.
How's that?
Because, I'm very hesitant to make this class have worse spell resistance than other classes, or even equal~. It definitely needs to be more. Evidently, it was too much, though.
Also, I love that idea for detection! But it's one of those things you can't simulate well unless you playtest it. As far as I'm concerned, it seems solid! I'll add that into the class document and try to give it a go to see how well it does
Another alternative is to have a lessened beefiness to the SR, but then add you intelligence mod against spells you have in your spell book. At later levels, you could theoretically learn all spells, giving you the same thing for a bigger price.
How's that?
Because, I'm very hesitant to make this class have worse spell resistance than other classes, or even equal~. It definitely needs to be more. Evidently, it was too much, though.
I like this idea, adds more usefulness to his underutilized spell book feature as well. so default to the monk SR of 10+class level. then +INT against spells in spell book.
One issue i could see is that the spellbreaker is going to have to choose between an offensive spell book, one that destroys buffs and support spells with the help of spell hound; or a defensive spellbook, one that is full of offensive spells to boost his SR.
edit: Could also apply same thought process to the "schools". SR = 10+ class level. Pick 1 school add INT to SR against all spells from that school. Pick another school at X level, and ever X levels thereafter.
one upside of SR bonus based off of schools rather than spells in you spell book, is less referencing necessary. its a lot easier to keep track of "I get SR bonus against divination, conjuration, and transmutation" rather than "I get SR bonus against the spells on this list of 30+ spells"
---------------------@ Amora Games
They certainly do have that one little bit in common,...
I am interested in publishing the spellbreaker once you feel its to a point.
Just dropping this here. Carry on.
Alignment
Must be lawful. Why?
Starting Wealth
Its not a big deal, but just copy and paste this from another class.
Skill List
Where is it? I find this to be not only a mechanically important component, but thematically as well.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
Change it to: A spellbreaker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Spell Resistance
Its been pointed out that the listed SR is too much, but you've had some good ideas since. Lets see them in writing.
Studied in the Art
A simple bonus to Spellcraft would suffice. But I must ask why a spellbreaker would be better at this skill than, say, a wizard? The acquisition of a spellbook that he can add to, without being able to cast from it is easily the most interesting aspect of this class, to me. Where does it go from here though? What use does he have for it? I see something with the next class feature, but I would like to see more.
Spellhound
Just for kicks I might make this an immediate action, and then instead of a flat +2, I would make it a bonus that improves for every 5 by which he exceeds to the DC.
Bonus Feat
It doesn't actually say that he gains a bonus feat, nor does it say that it must be a combat feat (which is suggested by the fighter thing). Maybe its not a big deal, but I am opposed to any class's levels counting as a fighter levels. Personal dislike.
Schools it is then. It does make things easier to keep track of, meaning more fun - less hassle!
The spell book is a double agent of the class, really. It helps you defend and sunder spells such as Fly and whatnot, leveling the playground against those annoying wizard spells. Buuut. When you resist spells, you are also able to -cast- a magus-tier spell list, which is quite useful, if situational.
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@Amora Games
I'm honored. As open-for-all material, however, yes? No cost attached to it?
I'm definitely alright with this, if so!
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@Ciaran
Most of that is just me wording things on the fly, rather than in standard dnd format. I'll iron it out eventually.
Starting wealth, yes indeed. I'm thinking fighter equivalent.
I had the same concern for his spell book being underused. I'll post a few suggestions later on this week.
The reason to the skill is that Spellhound, one of the main class features, is directly dependent on Spellcraft, and having it come from the class level allows the class more flexibility with his skill ranks. Thematically it shows that one can not be a Spellbreaker without knowing what he's breaking.
The spellbreaker usually comes from a very strict order and studious training. However, the alignment thing truly is a mishap on my part, as I can not think of any good reason why a spellbreaker would be forced to stay Lawful after becoming a spellbreaker. Will think on that.
The fighter levels are there just so he can take the Spellbreaker feat eventually. :^)
Thematically this shows that the Spellbreaker may be well-versed in all forms of anti-caster combat, be it actual spell Sundering, or more traditional get-in-his-face-so-he-feels-uncomfortable styles.
I was having a problem deciding what sort of action Spellhound should be, but anything less than Immediate would be underpowered, really. So yeah, sounds good.
If the Spellbreaker feat is that important, then it should be handed out as a class feature or as part of a class feature. Not sure what level though.
Would some kind of Detect Magic ability be appropriate?
Identifying a spell with spellcraft doesn't need an action, I think, but doing so to gain a benefit warrants an action of some kind. Maybe at high level it no longer requires an action.
---------------------@ Amora Games
They certainly do have that one little bit in common,...
I am interested in publishing the spellbreaker once you feel its to a point.
Just dropping this here. Carry on.
Im with Amora, and would be very interested to see this as a published class. I've been wanting an in-your-face mage killer with an educated feel for a while now. Honestly I thought it would come in the form of a magus archetype, but I am loving how this class is coming together.
It's not important, specifically, but having it as an option seems fair. Along with some other useful fighter feats which will allow the Spellbreaker to at least -partially- be as competent in gritty melee combat as other martial classes. Debatable, even so.
It could be a non-action too, since Spellhound is central to Spell Sunder, which is central to the class. You get an attack of opportunity to sunder the spell as it is being cast only if you can identify it. Would be lame to have that only once per turn. Although, perhaps it could be a limited non-action. Like, half the SB's int mod times per round, and if he successfully sunders a spell which is in his book, he gets his roundly use of Spellhound refreshed?
... Or that will just make the class EVEN more MAD. Well, up for debate. You only have as many sunders to give out as you do AoOs, which balances it out somewhat.
Something like that. My mission with furthening what we've got so far is definitely to not turn it into a giant wall of text. So I'm hesitant to post certain ideas I've had.
I've had the same exact thoughts with the detect magic thing... Theoretically Spellhound is a kind of detect magic which activates when there's a spell being cast or an effect triggered by a spell on someone, something. Not sure where to limit this exactly.
Thoughts on Spellhound, ie Spellcraft check.
Spellcraft DC: Identify a spell as it is being cast 15 + spell level = lower this a bit or give a bonus for spellhound. It does not need to be anywhere close to detect magic spell. You are figuring out the spell.
He does this without having to use magic, and he should do it as an EX not Su.
Quote PRD: Action: Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action....
Since you get a bonus, you should be able to use it as an immediate action, ie a swift action, but out of turn.
Quote PRD: Retry: You cannot retry checks made to identify a spell.
Spellbreaker should be be able to reread the ability x per day if failed. That way it stands out from anyone else who can use a spellcraft check.
My problem with a reroll on the check: The SB gets a decent spellcraft bonus all in all, making it difficult to outright fail his check very often. Giving it rerolls would make it even harder to fail, turning the whole process more into routine than actual interactive... spellbreaking.
Example:
Mage is casting fireball.
SB failed to identify it and takes it to the face. It hurt.
Mage casts another fireball.
SB successfully identified this one and sundered it, saving the day. Or failed to do so and dropped dead.
Each spell cast triggers a Spellhound check, as each spell is a different clause and is unknown until it flies out of that sorcerer's hands, unless identified. So each spell can be identified, even if it's the same spell being cast twice. I think it doesn't need any rerolls, as a failure to identify it will lead to pain, annoyance or more enemies summoned for the spellbreaker to deal with (Which is a chief tactic to fight the spellbreaker, if he fails to lock you down right away). After all, as good as the class is at killing mages, it's simply not fun if they're not given a chance to cast their spells.
15 + spell level can only ever go up to 24 which is a level 9 spell and is well within the capabilities of anyone with spellcraft as a class skill to identify above a certain level, much more so the spellbreaker with its passive bonus per level.
For emphasis, at level 5 you'll be throwing against a 24 DC to identify a Wish spell with a bonus of 13-14 spellcraft. You can strengthen this with a Skill Focus, even.
You need to roll over 10 to identify the spell of a lvl 18 wizard as a lvl 5 spellbreaker. That seems fair to me.
Even at level 1, rolling against a level one wizard casting level 1 spells, the DC is 16 versus a spellcraft of about 5-8 ( 10 - 16 intellegence ).
In my eyes, it's fair. And if the player wishes more, he can always use traits and feats to pump his spellcraft up.
As for detect magic... Well, according to my logic, you need to have a tool of magical perception in order to understand that magic is being cast. In this case, Spellhound acts as that, hence the Su. Although I may be misunderstanding something about how mechanics make this happen.
Usually if it mimics a spell it is a "spell-like ability" but can be used supernaturally if it is an "innate" ability (Su). At least that's my understanding.
So you see it more of the "quickening" from highlander than you do as a person who has the experience and knowledge of knowing what to look for?
If that's the case then maybe swap Spellhound and Studied in the art. It kind of fits why they would have a natural resistance to spells as well and both would be Su at that point. Then studied the art would be justified as Ex.
I saw the current build as spellhound resulting from Studied in the Art, making it Ex then. Either I feel works could work based on flavor.
As of open game content, all mechanics I use are open game and shall remain so.
As far as a free product, we can do that yes, but if we do such we wouldn't be able to pay you.
If we do it for $1-$2 we could pay you. But this could all be discussed behind scene, if it is a route you wish to go
Really liking the shape of the class either way.
Studied in the Art
As an alternative, you could say that the spellbreaker does not need to roll for a spell that he has learned and inscribed in his book. This could alleviate the need for a spellcraft bonus.
Spellhound
For uses per round, just skip the part where you use an ability score. Have it start at 1 time per round, and increase it as he levels up. But honestly, how many times per round do you see him needing to use this class feature? I think only a few att higher levels is reasonable. If you want to go beyond that, you could say that each additional use of spellhound in a round incurs a cumulative penalty to the check, in the manner of using Acrobatics to move through threatened squares. There doesn't need to be a limit for simply identifying a spell, but using the feature's bonus should be another matter.
Spellbook
I might copy the wizard's spellbook feature almost word for word. He starts with several spells, can adds two per level, and can add additonal spells through research (scrolls and other spellbooks). Except instead of learning to cast the spell, he has learned how to counter it.
Countering a Spell
You've already talked about gaining a bonus to saves against a spell, but as the spellbreaker advances in level, I'd like to see him doing more than that. He could deflect the spell towards another target or square, he could shut it down altogether, he could use the ability to deliver a devastating attack when he disrupts the spell as it being cast. You should really brainstorm these options and get creative. If you end up with way too many, you can always trim down the list and end up with some really choice ones. Or, you can create a list, and the spellbreaker chooses a new Spell Counter every few levels.
Where are the casters?
I don't know what your gaming groups are like, but in my personal experience actual spellcasters represent a small minority of enemies faced. Make sure that the language of the class feature includes spell-like abilities. And - not neccessarily at low levels - perhaps include a way for the spellbreaker to interact with supernatural abilities. There is no mechanic I know of to learn or identify these, so this will take some pondering.
Most of what you described in countering spells is covered in the class itself, yes. Greater Spellbane and Spellflux allow the SB to deliver a rather devastating attack upon the enemy when successfully Sundering a spell.
Energy Channel allows a sundered/resisted spell to be turned into energy fueled into a single spellslot of equal level, but no more than 6, allowing the spellbreaker to cast a single spell next round, of that spell level.
In essence it's a roundabout way to do exactly what you wanted with countering the spells.
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They are where the DMs are, mostly. But if you choose to add this class to the campaign, the DM has a variety of new NPCs to make and throw against you. Whole campaigns made where SBs are hunting down cultists or worshippers of dark gods. This all specifically depends on circumstances, and isn't something the class is made to deal with.
However, spell-like abilities! Good one. Perhaps a harder DC to overcome when Sundering such and giving spellbreakers a unique ability to identify them at a higher DC, signifying the difficulty a spellbreaker would experience when working with innate, non-structured magic in the form of something only resembling spells.
Not rolling for spells cast is rather overpowered in the context of the class. It means that your enemy has literally no chance when spell casting against you, as any spell he casts, unless a high level one, will be ruthlessly dismantled, causing Spellbane to then take away a spellslot of the caster's highest level and burn his hp with that same spell to an extent. It increases the risk for casters casting magic exponentially, and I think that's quite fine as it is. However the bonus on spellcraft granted by Studied in the Art could be applied only to spells known, for instance.
Of course, this forces the DM to reveal all the spells his NPCs are casting to the players as OOC knowledge, and that's kind of... eh.
Can a wizard learn spells from a spellbraker's spellbook? how about the other way around?
Edit: also, can he learn divine spells from scrolls?
Theoretically, yes for the wizard and the other way around. Divine spells... Well, they won't work with Channel Energy, as the SB has no god to give them the power necessary to cast these things. Otherwise, probably, the DM's word is law in this case. Who knows, maybe in your setting the Spellbreakers are paladins of the God of Magic, seeking to punish those who misuse their Lord's gifts to the world.
Theoretically, yes for the wizard and the other way around. Divine spells... Well, they won't work with Channel Energy, as the SB has no god to give them the power necessary to cast these things. Otherwise, probably, the DM's word is law in this case. Who knows, maybe in your setting the Spellbreakers are paladins of the God of Magic, seeking to punish those who misuse their Lord's gifts to the world.
I believe the spell breaker should be able to manipulate divine magic in the same way as arcane. Since the power is still being manifested by a caster.
Unlike arcane spells, divine spells draw power from a divine source. Clerics gain spell power from deities or from divine forces. The divine force of nature powers druid and ranger spells, and the divine forces of law and good power paladin spells.
and since the magic is being middle-manned by a caster i don't see why a spellbreaker wouldn't be able to harness the raw power of the spell and manipulate it to his/her needs (the god will probably be a little peeved about it, but wutcha gonna do about it)
Alright, that could be fair, but perhaps despite the power being divine, the only spells a spellbreaker can turn it into are arcane? He still doesn't have divine guidance in his spell casting. That would mean that Cure/inflict spells, when sundered, granted the class no benefit, also.
New Archetype! This one was, unsurprisingly, times harder to make than the Slayer one, which is simple and quick. (Several suggested improvements for Spellslayer have been made. Will post later.)
Spellbreaker Adept
Some men and women embrace the concept of anti-magic in a much more radical fashion than their comrades, causing them to distance themselves from the fundemental energies flowing within the universe to such an extent that their bodies weaken. In return, however, they gain greater abilities than their Spellbreaker cousins at the cost of their martial prowess and, eventually, mortality.
Spellbreaker Adepts may act as teachers for novice spellbreakers, officers within their organization or even scholars, researching the workings of magic in a backwards fashion in contrast to wizards.
Proficiencies: The Spellbreaker Adept loses all proficiencies except for simple weapons.
Skills: Loses Climb and Swim, gains Linguistics.
Saves: The Spell Adept loses his fast fortitude save progression.
Studied Beyond the Art (Ex)
The Spellbreaker may substitute one spell gained in the Wizard progression for a spell of the same level from the Cleric/Oracle spell list.
He may learn Cleric/Oracle spells from scrolls.
This ability is an addition to Studied in the Art.
Adept Spell Resistance (Ex)
The Spellbreaker Adept’s knowledge and devotion to the cause of rooting out the effects of misused magic and hunting down of renegade spellcaster grants him spell resistance at 1st level equal to: 10 + his spellbreaker level + INT. He may choose which spells to apply this spell resistance to, effectively being able to receive beneficial effects from allies, while blocking out harmful ones from enemies.
He does not need to choose specific schools, unlike the Spellbreaker. It is assumed he has abandoned his martial prowess to instead focus on studying in the arts of spellbreaking entirely, thus having sufficient knowledge in all schools to know how best to resist them.
In addition, at 3rd level, the Spellbreaker Adept may expend a use of his Spell Steal per day to grant his Spell Resistance to any number of targets within 10 ft of himself. He may choose who to grant this spell resistance to.
This ability replaces Spell Resistance.
Anti-magic Radicalism (Su)
The Spellbreker Adept’s body weakens due to his arts distancing him from the fundamental building blocks of the universe. He receives a -1 penalty to his CON ability score at 1st level. This penalty increases by another -1 at 6th, 12th and every 6 levels thereafter, effectively limiting it to a -4 at level 18.
Simultaneously to his weakening body, the Spellbreaker Adept’s mind becomes free from the constraints of his mortal flesh, granting him a +1 INT, increasing at the same rate as his CON decreases.
In addition, every 4 levels, the spellbreaker is treated as having one less base attack bonus points for all purposes except for sunder checks made to use Spell Sunder. (Or just make them have a medium BAB progression. I was hesitant to simply write it like that since archetypes don't usually do that.)
This ability causes the Spellbreaker Adept to lose all spellslots previously gained from other classes and be unable to gain any from other classes in the future.
Mark of Spellbane (Su)
At 2nd level, as a standard action, the Spellbreaker adept may make a ranged touch attack against any target within his field of vision. If successful, that target suffers the effects of Spellbane + the Spellbreaker Adept’s level as force damage. (Targets that have no spellslots are not affected by this ability.)
At 4th level, the Spellbreaker Adept may place a Mark upon a spellcaster he has triggered Spellbane upon as an immediate action. Henceforth, the Spellbreaker knows the location of this spellcaster at all times and may either grant him a +2 bonus to his caster level on any spell he wishes to cast as an Aid Another action. or Spell Sunder said spell at a distance of 400 ft. (Virtually possible to make it happen from another planet.) If said spellcaster should be in another plane, the Mark is temporarily inactive until the Spellbreaker Adept is on the same plane of existence as his Marked target.
At 8th and 14th levels, the distance at which the Spellbreaker is able to Spell Sunder or Aid Another by 600 ft. (1600 at 14th.) The bonus of Aid Another to the Marked Target’s spellcaster level increases by +1 at 8th and 14th levels.
The target of this Mark is allowed a will save with a DC of 15 + Spellbreaker level + INT mod. If successful, he is not Marked.
Only one target may be Marked at a time.
This ability replaces Spellbane and all his bonus feats. (2nd, 8th and 14th levels.)
Adept Spell Sunder (Su)
As the original Spellbreaker’s Spell Sunder, but the starting range is 30 ft.
At 10th, 15th and 20th levels, this range increases by an additional 10 ft. (Capping at 60 ft.)
This ability replaces Spell Sunder.
Adept Spellflux (Su)
The Spellbreaker is able to channel this enhancement bonus into other weapons, armor and shields at a range of 30 ft as a standard action for 1d4 rounds.
In addition, the Spellbreaker Adept may use this ability to create a shield of energy around himself equal to the sundered spell’s level x his INT mod as a swift action.
Doing so consumes the spellslot granted by Energy Channel, if there is such.
This ability replaces Spellflux.
Adept Energy Channel (Su)
The maximum level of spellslot the Spellbreaker Adept may receive increases to 8th level.
This ability replaces Energy Channel.
Mark of Greater Spellbane (Su)
The Spellbreaker Adept may activate the effects of his Mark at any distance. However, he is still limited by plains and dimensions.
As per the Greater Spellbane ability, the Spellbreaker Adept’s Spell Sunders cause Spellbane to activate upon the sundered target. In addition, the Spellbreaker Adept may choose to not have Spellbane activate.
This ability replaces Greater Spellbane.
Total Spellbreaker (Su)
At 20th levels, the Spellbreaker Adept’s Radicalism progresses to such an extent that he now exists outside of the universe’s base laws and is henceforth considered a magical creature. He is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the Spellbreaker Adept’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects.
The Spellbreaker is henceforth not limited by planes and dimensions for the purpose of Spell Sunder and Aid Another towards his Marked target.
The Spellbreaker adept entirely loses his Constitution Ability score, as if he were undead, however he is not considered undead for the purpose of spells and magical effects. He is now immune to all death effects and ability damage/bleed/drain, as well as energy drain. Neither positive nor negative energy heal or damage the Spellbreaker Adept, however he gains fast healing 10.
The Spellbreaker Adept, in addition, gains Damage Reduction 10/--, Resistance against all energy types equal to 30 and increases his Spell Resistance by an additional 5.
The Spellbreaker may not die of age and takes no age penalties.
If the Spellbreaker should die, he may not be resurrected save for divine intervention or true resurrection.
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Comment:
The few bits I'm iffy about are Mark of Spellbane, Adept Energy Channel and Total Spellbreaker.
I fear I may have granted this class a few numerical advantages over its original alternative, however what kept me from simply rewriting it is the general nerfedness of most his stats (CON, loss of Fortitude saves) and the duality of his capstone both making the Adept sturdier and much more vulnerable due to quite literally being immune to... healing and resurrection.
It's essentially martially inept because of the low hitpoints this archetype will have. Even if you manage to stack into 20 CON, you'll end up with 16 eventually and then lose the ability score entirely later. Is it a dump stat? More or less, but that just means your fortitude saves will be in the sewer. You'll be relying on Spellhound and Anti-Magic Fortitude not to empower your defenses against save or suck spells, but to quite literally keep you existant.
I'm heavily in need of your reviews and criticism!
P.S.: One thing I do like, though, is the flavour of this archetype. It literally opens a new horizon for many different characters and stories. Even whole campaigns being possible off of just the Mark ability.
Errata: Mark of Spellbane DC = 15 + 1/2 spellbreaker level + INT.
Oops, my bad.
Spell Defender
While most Spellbreakers favor a lighter protection with lighter shields and weapons to best fend off against both mystical attacks upon their person with agility and more physical ones with finesse rather than brute force, these men and women instead favor the massive Tower Shield - the most iconic epitome of defense.
Many of their brethren laughed at such folly, judging the thing too cumbersome to be of any use in both travelling, which the spellbreaker is rarely at a position to give up, and hunting down their prime targets who are usually able to reach through such raw physical shells with their magic.
However, Spell Defenders proved everyone the viability of such equipment by learning to spread their own anti-magic defenses onto their shields making them impenetrable walls of reflecting, absorbing and deflecting both sword and sorcery, fire and arrow. None ridicule these men for their choice nowadays. They are even considered a welcome sight and, at times, even an invaluable ally.
Proficiencies: The Spell Defender is proficient with tower shields, loses proficiency with all other shields.
Skills: Loses Acrobatics as a class skill.
Saves: Remain the same.
Fortified Spellhound (Su)
The Spell Defender loses his bonus on sunder checks, but instead of +2 his bonus to saves against an identified spell increase to +4.
In addition, at 5th level the Spell Defender gains a +1 bonus to his Spell Reflect checks and Spell Redirect DC. Every 5 levels thereafter, the bonus increases by +1.
Spell Redirect may be used as an attack of opportunity if the Spell Defender has successfully identified it as it was being cast.
Otherwise, the ability is unchanged.
If the Spell Defender knows this spell (aka in his spellbook) the bonuses from this ability double.
This ability replaces Spellhound.
Spell Redirect (Su)
At 3rd level, once per day, the Spell Defender may choose one spell being cast and may redirect its effects upon himself.
This ability allows a will-save for the caster with a DC of 10 + ½ Spell Defender’s level + INT
At 6th, 9th and every 3 levels thereafter, the Spell Defender may use this ability one additional time per day.
This ability replaces Spell Steal.
Fortress Wall (Ex)
At 4th level the Spell Defender is treated as having Evasion when employing the total cover tactic.
At 8th level the Spell Defender gains the Ray Shield feat.
At 14th level the Spell Defender is treated as having Improved Evasion when employing the total cover tactic.
This ability replaces the Spell Defender’s bonus feats at 2nd, 8th and 14th level as well as Spellbane.
Spell Reflect (Su)
At 5th level the Spell Defender may choose one square adjacent to him. If any spell should target him or said square, the Spell Defender may make a Reposition combat maneuver check with a DC of 15 + ½ caster level + spell level to reflect it back upon the caster. If an area of effect spell should be subject to this effect, it is entirely negated and instead comes into effect with its caster as the centre of the area.
At 10th and every 5 levels thereafter, the Spell Defender may designated an extra square adjacent to him.
If a spell should come to him through Spell Redirect in this fashion, he may indeed reflect it back upon the caster.
This ability replaces Spell Sunder.
Tower of Anti-Magic (Su)
Whenever the Spell Defender successfully Reflects, Redirects or Resists a spell or spell-like ability (Either through saves and Anti-Magic Fortitude or his Spell Resistance) he is able to channel the residual energy from the spells into his shield, granting it an enhancement bonus to his AC equal to the level of the spell or half the level of the creature using the spell-like ability for 1d4 rounds.
In addition, his reflex saves increase by 4 for the same amount of rounds.
Energy Channel (Su)
This does not work with Spell Reflect or Redirect. It does, however, work with his Spell Resistance and Saves as per normal.
Tower of Spell Defense (Su)
At 16th level, the Spell Defender gains his shield bonus against touch attacks.
This ability replaces Greater Spellbane.
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And here's the next Archetype! Criticism, suggestions and reviews welcome as always.
Updates to the original Spellbreaker:
The Spellbreaker's Spell Resistance equals to 10 + level. At 1st, 4th, 8th and every 4 levels thereafter, the Spellbreaker must choose a school of magic. He may add his INT mod to his spell resistance against spells cast from those schools.
The Spellbreaker's immunity must be chosen with a school from the list of chosen schools, bringing him to immunity with 1 school and quite good resistances (Depending on int) with 5 others. Shore up the rest with magical items, as stated by Cheepenbulky, whom I give credit to for suggesting this change!
Spellhound now works with spell-like abilities. The DC for identification is 20 + half the caster's level and it does not grant a doubled bonus against spell-like abilities even if it is similar to a spell in his spellbook. This DC is intended this way to represent the extreme difficulty the spellbreaker would experience with such effects at first, and the increasing ease he experiences later, with little difference between spell or spell-like ability eventually.
Spellbane and Spellflux work with spell-like abilities, using half the caster's level instead of the spell's level. It can go up to 10, yes. This is intended as innate magic is counted as slightly more potent than actual spellslots for the spellbreaker.
Energy Channel does not work with spell-like abilities as the Spellbreaker is counted as not having enough prowess to form raw innate magic into spells, however the Spellbreaker Adept can do it just fine, counting half the caster level as the spell-level.
The Spellslayer has the ability to conceal himself from enemy detection spells with a DC of 15 + spell level as a spellcraft check as an attack of opportunity action, but loses his bonus to sundering upon identification. This may be roleplayed as him metaphorically "dodging" the detection spell in an anti-magic sense.
Errata: Tower of Anti-Magic replaces Spellflux. Forgot that.
Fantastic! I'm most assuredly using this class and the archetypes.
First, my apologies for what I'm sure is reiteration of things already mentioned... I didn't read all through the comments due to their verbal girth. I like the concept, but think there are some things that truly need to be fixed...
Spell Resistance (Ex):
My concern with this one is that, not only is it the most powerful 1st level feature I've seen, but it is 1st level, so a quick multi-classing dip is easy to do. Even without an Intelligence bonus (Int 10), an opponent of equal level needs to roll 11+ on a d20 to get a spell to go off against someone of this class. That's equivalent to a 50% concealment vs spells. Of course, if you're playing a high-int class, dipping into this class for a single level would be a no-brainer.
If I may suggest... At 1st level, allow them to gain a "Resist" instead of "Resistance" equal to their Int bonus against a single type of magic determined at character creation. At a higher level, allow them to choose at the beginning of each turn. Higher yet, allow the resist to be effective against all types, and only after that, a Resistance. I would say not before level 10 though for resistance.
My other concern is that it comes -before- Studied in the Art and Spellhound. As written, he's picking and choosing which spells effect him, but has no idea what the spells are yet. It seems paradoxical to me.
Studied in the Art (Ex):
I like the 1st part, but not sure I understand the 2nd part... the spell book. Is he able to cast these spells even as a Cleric? Or is this limited to arcane classes? Also... may I ask why? It's not too powerful or anything, it just seems odd, like giving a rogue a spell book just in case he ever decided to be something other.
Spellhound (Su):
Good feature.
Bonus Feat (Ex)
So, no actual Bonus Feat? To be fair to Fighters, shouldn't the Spellbreaker level be halved for qualifying? Ie: Magus
Spell Steal (Su)
As a spell caster, this concerns me. :P (Admittedly, a Spellbreaker class should concern me as a spell caster :P). It is potentially a lot more deadly than it may seem. For example, I'm flying 30 feet in the air and poof... not flying anymore, you are. I appreciate the Will save to avoid this happening, but if he's 3rd level, and I can't even cast this spell tip I'm 7th level, something seems broke when he can not only steal it from me (killing me in the process), but then use the spell for a greater duration than I can.
I think it needs to be limited to a 6th level spell tier, and the Spellbreaker needs to be of a class-level equal or greater than what is required to cast the spell. This does mean he'd never be able to steal spells of level 7 or higher, ever. Also, I don't think his duration should ever be greater than the caster's... sorry. Finish the duration is fair, but even then, I'd see it more balanced if the remaining duration were halved. 21 hours (even at level 20) for something that has a duration of 1 minute for other spell casters is just way too much. Duration is one of the checks and balances of spells... spells are oft more powerful if their duration is more limited.
Anti-magic Fortitude (Ex)
Does this stack with Spellhound, granting a +4 to these saves?
Spellbane (Su)
Too much... wit his BAB, he's always going to be just pouring out damage to any spell casters. For example, if he were fighting a level 5 wizard with a level 3 spell memorised, this lets him do base damage plus (assuming at least a 16 Charisma, though with this feature, you'd likely try for an 18 Charisma minimum) you're adding 9 damage to every hit PLUS removing the 3rd level spell. Either of those choices is already super powerful, combining them is just way too much. :/
Spell Sunder (Su)
I like the spell sunder. The CMD check is too low though for effects. Who can't automatically make a CMD check of 10 (for a 5th level spell)? You might as well not even have a CMD check. And, again, I would put a restriction on it like I suggested for the Spell Steal feature, meaning he never gets to sunder level 7+ effects or spells.
Spellflux (Su)
Looks good, though if you were to follow my recommendation, that's a cap of +6.
Improved Anti-Magic Fortitude (Su)
Looks good.
Energy Channel(Su)
Looks good.
Greater Spellbane (Su)
Spellbane is already way too much... it needs balancing to comment on the greater version.
Spell Annihilation (Su)
This needs to be less general. That, and +10 is likely too much. Spell Steal for example becomes a will save of 20+8(level)+4 or 5 = 32+ Will bonus is, at best, 12+5 (cloak?) for 17. He needs to roll a 15+ to hold onto his spell, and that's being ideal for him, chances are he'll need a 20+ in most situations.
Total Immunity (Su)
Cool
Total Resistance (Su)
Cool.
@Sphynx
I agree with some of the things you say and if you'll read, they have indeed been fixed already.
Other things I'm inclined to agree less. Some of your requests simply cater to spellcasters too much, in essence, you are asking to make the class ineffective at doing what its entire concept is focused on, so I'll keep it to saying that the things that have not been fixed won't need to be fixed due to other shortcomings and weaknesses balancing the class out.
Spell Annihilation could be nerfed, perhaps. I could see it giving +5 to the DC rather than +10. I honestly wish I had playtested info to work with here.
I think you slightly misunderstand me. I don't see much (any really) PvP, so it's not that I mind having someone around that can take out spell casters and stop their spells... I just don't think someone who focuses on fighting the way a magic user focuses on magic, should be comparable in magic.
If he had a lower BAB grade, then I would support strongly his being able to go toe to toe magic-vs-antimagic with higher level magic users... But this guy has a Fighter's BAB, and is currently on par with wizards (in the anti-sense) in magic... there has to be a balance, not because I don't want someone to play this PC and kill my PC with him, but because it opens a door to imbalance that is impossible to close.
That being said, I look forward to your 'fixed' version of the class so I can evaluate it more effectively. :)
You can read about it several posts up. There a still things I wish to do in the archetype section.
You regard anti-magic too highly and are approaching this from the wrong directions.
The spellbreaker does not possess the wizard's, or any spellcaster's at all, utility and problem solving skills. It has its own niche which it can fulfill and is not comparable to any other class in any other field. It is by far not the best melee. Having full BAB doesn't make it effective in combat. Any fighter, rogue or barbarian will tear this class to pieces in any situation possible. However spellcasters will kiss the dirt, because that's what the spellbreaker is good at.
What's more, if you look at low levels, instead of simply taking a level 20 character which never happens, you'll find that the fight between a caster and a spellbreaker is evenly matched.
I'm afraid I still simply cant follow that logic. You don't take into account too many factors here. And I don't mean to be defensive or just generally a bad person. Consider the class in the grand scheme of the system and game, rather than a narrow picture and you'll find that it's actually fairly well-rounded.
That said, if you want to use this class in your own game, there's nothing stopping you from enforcing the changes you want upon it. Homebrew is homebrew.
P.S. Forget what I said about classes, even. Just focus on the concept of problem solving.
A social situation comes up. Who's better at solving it? The wizard.
A combat situation comes up where the monsters don't have magic. Who's better at solving it? The wizard.
The group needs to quickly reach a certain destination. Who's better at solving it? The wizard.
He's just as good at anti-magic as the wizard is at magic. and I don't see anything wrong with that.
I kind of like Sphynx's concept of a medium bab anti-magic guy. He looses some ability to go toe-to toe with full bab combatants, but makes up for it with dispelling, spell turning, anti-magic, better saves, effect removal, etc.
Spellbreaker Adept archetype is exactly what you're looking for, then. If you scroll up, you'll find the post with it. any feedback would be appreciated!
Spell Sunder can be used to "dispell" effects placed on things. For instance, you could remove Bestow Curse from allies with a Spell Sunder. Slow, Burning, Hold Person.
The Spell Defender has outright spell turning and some pretty strong saves. Otherwise Energy Channel could basically be used to throw the exact same spell back at the caster for the same effect.
But do check the archetypes out, I'm badly in need of criticism.
Spellbane (Su)
Too much... wit his BAB, he's always going to be just pouring out damage to any spell casters. For example, if he were fighting a level 5 wizard with a level 3 spell memorised, this lets him do base damage plus (assuming at least a 16 Charisma, though with this feature, you'd likely try for an 18 Charisma minimum) you're adding 9 damage to every hit PLUS removing the 3rd level spell. Either of those choices is already super powerful, combining them is just way too much. :/
I think you are giving this ability too much credit.
dmg for a fighter 1 handed weapon @ lvl 3: weapon + str + weapon spec + weapon training + power attack = weapon + str + 5dmg for spell breaker 1 handed weapon @ lvl 3: weapon + str + power attack or weapon spec (wont have enough feats for both, unless thats all he gets)= weapon + str + 2
so seeing as a spell breaker is probably going to have a lower STR because of the inherent MAD of the class, his DMG will probably end up being 4-5 points behind the fighters at lvl 3, against non-casting classes. so the situational 6-9 DMG that he can add against the much rarer casters seems balanced to me.
I can get behind a limit on uses per round tho, because as worded now, spellbane is something that just happens passively as part of an attack. This would make full attacks, or two weapon fighting wreak havoc on a casters spell list. imagine facing off against an NPC spellbreaker, losing 1 of your most powerful spells is frustrating, getting full attacked by a lvl 6 dual wielder and losing 4 spells is downright destructive (without even taking into account the damage)
So I'm suggesting a little change: Class BAB is 3/4, this just makes sense, look at the magus (match the bonus feat/fighter level rules of the magus as well). But also change spellbane as so:
Spellbane: Once per round whenever the Spellbreaker makes a successful strike at an enemy with any kind of leftover spells per day or spell-like abilities, the Spellbreaker may use spellbane. That opponent must make a will save equal to 10 + half the spellbreakers level + his INT modifier. If he fails, the target loses his highest available spellslot level and takes its level x the Spellbreaker’s INT mod as damage. A failed attempt does not count against the Spellbreakers uses per round.
In addition whenever the Spellbreaker attacks a creature with magical abilities (spells, SLA, supernatural abilities), he gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls. A Spellbreaker also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made against said creatures. This bonus also applies to the Spellbreakers Combat Maneuver Defense against spells and spell-like abilities.
At lvl 8 and every 4 levels thereafter the spellbreaker may use spell bane 1 extra time per round and the the bonus to atk increases by +1. Up to a maximum of 5 at level 20.
this gives you a quasi-full-BAB character, but limits him on feats and full attacks, while simultaneously allowing you to drop the funky wording on the adept (I dont like the "treat this archetype as 3/4 BAB" thing)
Also you can add the bonus to dodge AC instead of attack for the Spell defender.
if you take reduced BAB into account and the limit on uses per round, spellbane should now be on par or a teensy weensy bit behind fighters for damage against casters. They have lower full attack, more restrictive feat choices, and lower to hit overall; but massive dmg bonuses if they hit they and the extra bonus of destroying spell lists as they go.
Which makes sense to me thematically. The spellbreaker's goal in attacking is going for "magic conduit points" and letting the magical backlash cause the majority of his damage; harder to hit, but crazy destructive on a success. While a fighter is just trying to chop the little brainiacs in half.
That sounds reasonable, although a 3/4 BAB is still giving me doubt.
Unlike the Spellbreaker, the magus is quite good against martial classes with his spellcasting and variety of wonky attack stuff (including full attack + spell in the same round), and still has the wonderful utility and flexibility spellcasting provides him with.
The spellbreaker just has, well... Spellbreaking. That's about it. it's worse at melee than anyone else, even the rogue, and bringing it down to 3/4 would just rub that in a lot more.
Also, it should be noted that the Spellbreaker receives three bonus feats in general. Only these feats can be selected as fighter-specific, not all feats the class gets as it levels. That was errata'do out a while ago, but it's quite high up in the conversation, so it's no wonder you'd not be aware.
Will apply changes to Spellbane!
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The Spellbreaker has been updated with the ability to deal with spell-like abilities. The changes are under the Spell Defender archetype posted above UsagiTaicho's latest post!
P.S. Thank you for the ever-encouraging support, Usagi! ^_^
That sounds reasonable, although a 3/4 BAB is still giving me doubt.
I tried to remedy the the 3/4 bab thing for the spellbreaker (and spellslayer) by adding the +1 to attack to spellbane. That plus 1 pretty much gives the spellbreaker close to full BAB (if a little wonky). The only thing the spell breaker would lose out on would be less attacks on a full attack, and feat prereq's. his to-hit is almost identical to a full bab character. bab progression:
lvl 4 - BAB +3, spellbane +1 = +4
lvl 8 - bab +6, spellbane +2 = +8
lvl 12 - BAB +9, spellbane +3 = +12
lvl 16 - BAB +12, spellbane +4 = +16
lvl 20 - BAB +15, spellbane +5 = +20
That feels a bit artificial and clunky that way, to be honest.
Look at it this way, when a Spellbreaker full-attacks, it has no to-hit bonuses and is very likely to miss its last attacks unlike the fighter or barbarian who have several such.
The only situation where the Spellbreaker is likely to employ a to-hit chance is if he was able to resist a spell or spell-like ability with his SR, saves or a successful sunder and thus use it for Spellflux. (I was going to add that the class may use it EITHER for Spellflux, OR for Energy Channel and not gain the benefits of both.) and that may last anywhere from 1 to 4 rounds, meaning the spellcaster could theoretically just attempt to run.
Two-weapon Fighting, while I see exactly what you mean, sounds like it would be crazily fun. But that aside, think of the prereqs of it the Spellbreaker has to meet. He'll have to start out with 16 Dex minimum, meaning he'll have to lower his STR, grab weapon finesse and Piranha Strike. Then he'll have to eat the -2 for two-weapon fighting, which isn't remedied by any to hit bonuses as it is with the fighter and barbarian and he'll both low AC and low damage outside of things with spellslots and spell-like abilities, because he's not using a shield. What if we go for the two-weapon shield feat chain? You'll have a character that won't be very effective until, say, level 17 or so and even then, you probably dumped STR, so your damage is behind.
If you didn't dump STR, then you have a lower INT score. If you have lower than 14 int, Spellbane is useless. If you have higher, you either have lower CON or lower DEX.
On top of that, if you lowered your STR, you now need Agile Maneuvers, which is yet another feat tax to fulfill.
The MAD status reaaaally keeps these things in check, I find. Plus Spellbane has a will save for not activating on the target. With a low int, the DC will similarly be low. With a high int, you now need to actually -hit- first.
All that, and you need to actually get to your opponent first as well, don't forget!
And I'd like to stress that comparing this class to the Magus is unfair. It has no spellcasting, unlike the Magus. That means no divination, no enchantment for social situations, no evocation or conjuration for combat situations, no abjuration or transmutation for self-buffing and so on. Level 6 spellcasting is a big deal, and the Magus pays for it with 3/4 BAB. The Spellbreaker doesn't quite deserve that one, in my opinion.