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Something came up today and we weren't sure how to adjudicate the situation.
Zarlova had to banish an armor to avoid death as she is not proficient with armor. This was a level one armor that was unlocked as a booty card that was reflected on a chronicle sheet When rebuilding, does Zarlova get to replace it with another level one armor, or does she need to start over again with a basic/basic armor?
It made sense to us to allow her to rebuild with a level 1 armor, but we couldn't find a reference to be sure.
As she never gains proficiency, it seems it would never benefit her to upgrade armors, as she would always need to rebuild with a basic/basic if upgrades are not persistent.
Thoughts?
I think you have to rebuild with Basic cards. Unlocking a card doesn't mean you can use it to rebuild, from what I've gathered.
I haven't checked the updated version, but does the basic/elite removal rule apply to cards in your class deck box?
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That is the problem Hawk. I can't find any rules one way or the other.
I haven't seen anything about removing cards from the class deck, which makes me wonder why one would ever make use of a level 5 or 6 armor if there wasn't the expectation that one could get a high level armor back.
At the same time, banishing a card should hurt, I just don't know if it should erase 6 months of play. I suppose every game you might run into another level appropriate card and hope that your loot system gets it for you so you can have it again next time, but it seems silly to bounce back and forth between wooden armor and adamantine plate armor every time you use the bury/banish power on the card. When you are in the higher level adventures a basic/basic armor just won't do anything for you.
Further, if unlocking cards via the loot system doesn't give you future access to the same level card, what is the point in even tracking them? There are many ways that the game forces you to banish cards, needing to return to into level each time that happens is a very expensive effect.
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The reference you are looking for is on page 7 under "Upgrading your Deck" last paragraph of the section.
After upgrading your deck, when rebuilding the rest of
your character deck, choose extra cards, if needed, from
your Class Deck. Use the Starting Character rules, which
are similar to the standard game rules.
The order appears to be:
1. The card upgrade for boons acquired during play
2. Any card reward for the scenario
3. Replace any missing cards using the Starting Character rules
And the start character rules have a provision for late adventures where you don't choose basic cards, so that is how you can take better armor later. But early on, you'll just have to go back to Basic.
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We are still waiting to find out if you rebuild your deck according to your history of acquired cards. Under that theory, even though you banished your only 3 Spell (acquired in a previous scenario) you will construct your deck using a 3 Spell of your choice for the next scenario. This would make Flenta designed for OP only. Also, you wouldn't want to banish new spells of high levels that you acquire.You do not rebuild with your history—you rebuild with the standard rules.
I don't know how link to a specific post, but here is a quote from Vic. You definitely are limited to the Basics Only rule until you get far enough that you can start picking two adventures below.
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I had asked this specific question before.
Vic's response leads me to think that the upgrade is lost if banished and you don't have the appropriate card in the "leftovers" after the game.
Gotta ask, because I thought I saw instructions somewhere on the site before. How do you link a specified comment?
You have to get the URL for the comment. If you look at a comment, the date/time stamp on it is a link to that specific comment. In Chrome, I just right click the date/time stamp and choose "Copy link address." So your comment asking this question has a URL of http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rkdv?PACG-OP-Deck-Rebuilding-Query#12.
Then just use the URL tag.
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Ok, pretty simple then... avoid banish mechanics at all costs!
That's the conclusion I've reached. If you have to banish something in game, make sure you've acquired some "junk" not from your class deck to throw away so you're not setting yourself back an entire scenario of deck upgrade. Cards that banish themselves aren't really worth upgrading unless you literally have nothing else to pick.
Even being careful about banishes you're probably still going to be using Basic cards in adventure 3 so be prepared for a different power level as you go through.
Yeah. You can obviously banish a card from your class deck if you know you can take the same card again (i.e. Basics or a character that requires more cards of a type than there are Basics in the class deck). And there are some characters will that will be part of your strategy (Flenta and spells for example).
And I'll bet that Zarlova probably thought loosing the armor was worth it to stay alive.
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In the link I posted with Vic's response, it seemed like if you banish an Armor 1 card during the game and at the end of the game there was an Armor 1 card in the pile of plunder and cards obtained during play, you could regain an Armor 1 card from your class deck. If there wasn't, you had to follow the rebuild rules.
But then in the other post he says you can't rebuild based on history. i.e. Your deck doesn't remember that it had an Armor 1 card so you can't replace the banished card with another Armor 1 card.
Confused. Can you replace a banished card with the same level card if it is in the potential upgrades (and no one else takes it for their upgrade) or not?
I guess I need to see this in action, but I find it very counter-intuitive. I don't see a way for the chronicle sheet to track that an upgrade was banished. How would you know that a character who has an upgrade listed should not actually have it unless you happened to be there when they banished it and actually remembered what they did?
From my perspective, the advantage of the chronicle sheet is that you can "legally" rebuild your character from that sheet. This is what keeps the balance in Organized Play. Technically, there is nothing stopping you from building your deck this week different from how you had it last week as long as you match the upgrades on your sheet (swapping out a deck 1 item for a different deck 1 item, for example).
Yes, I understand the social contract is there, but from an organizer I don't think this is something I would worry about "policing". You have no way of determining if a banished card happened if they were playing at another table or another FLGS. So essentially, the only players that you can "police" are those who you have specific knowledge of. It starts to feel arbitrary as it is nearly impossible to apply conistently.
From a player perspective, you have "earned" the upgrade from previous play and it seems weird to take that away as part of a condition for closing locations. Essentially you are building in automatic "downgrades". When players (especially new players) realize that a banished card could translate to a permanent downgrade for their character, I could see them balking at the idea of banishing their card to close a location and just letting the scenario fail instead.
Sorry if the above sounds kind of rant-ish. I do not intend it that way. I am just concerned about how this impacts the dynamics of a cooperative game, and how it seems to undermine the purpose of chronicle sheets and upgrade rewards.
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Greyhawke, that's the exact reason I was asking. I'm investing my time into playing a character. And to have to banish an upgrade card for whatever reason and not get a replacement back seems punitive. I'd have to waste another upgrade to get that potential card back.
Plus you're correct. I play my ranger and get an Item 1 upgrade. The next game I play, I have to banish it to close a location. The next week I play some other place and put that Item 1 back into my deck since it is on my chronicle sheet. (After all, I earned that upgrade.)
It is part of the upgrade/rebuilding portion of organized play I don't like or feel needs to be redefined.
I'd also really like to see the upgrade rules clarified and/or revised.
In the link I posted with Vic's response, it seemed like if you banish an Armor 1 card during the game and at the end of the game there was an Armor 1 card in the pile of plunder and cards obtained during play, you could regain an Armor 1 card from your class deck. If there wasn't, you had to follow the rebuild rules.
I was thinking the same thing. It kind of makes sense that if you gained an armor with an adventure number equal to or greater than the number of an upgrade that you had gained but lost, you should be able to pick a card of that type to fill in the spot. For instance, if you have a Spell 2 upgrade on your Chronicle sheet and you lost the spell that was filling that slot. At the end of the scenario, there is a Spell 3 that no one needs (there are other Spell 3 cards or there are some 4s or something), so you use that card to let you select a spell of 2 or lower from your class deck to fill your empty spell slot since you lost it during the scenario.
But then in the other post he says you can't rebuild based on history. i.e. Your deck doesn't remember that it had an Armor 1 card so you can't replace the banished card with another Armor 1 card.
Your deck may not remember, but your Chronicle sheet definitely does. If you can't refile your deck upgrade slots, what is the point in keeping them on your Chronicle sheet after you banish the card you had filling that upgrade? If this is the intent, you should be required to remove/line through the upgrade after the corresponding card got banished.
One of the things I'd really like to see changed is how deck upgrades work is in the very first step. Get rid of "sorting all newly acquired cards by card type and place them in the center of the play area" right away. Before you do this, all of the players should have the opportunity to utilize the cards that their characters gained during play just like in the base game. The bard acquired a Spell 2, Weapon 1, Item 1, and two Blessing B cards? If the upgrade he wants is within these 5 cards, he can take it right away without having to share and potentially fight over it with the other players. So he goes ahead and takes Spell 2 as an upgrade. Then, if he banished a Weapon 2 card during the scenario, he can then use the Weapon 1 card to at least fill that weapon slot with a Weapon 1 type card instead of just a Weapon B (Basic). That's all he needs/all he can use, so he puts the Item and Blessings in the center of the play area for everyone else to choose from. If it was a five player game and no one else gained any cards and they didn't end the scenario with any plunder, they would then roll the die to add one more card so that there is one upgrade available for each remaining character, since the bard already got his upgrade. Then it would proceed on to the rules as they are now for the remaining characters.
That's more along the lines of what I would like to see, anyway.
But then in the other post he says you can't rebuild based on history. i.e. Your deck doesn't remember that it had an Armor 1 card so you can't replace the banished card with another Armor 1 card.Your deck may not remember, but your Chronicle sheet definitely does. If you can't refile your deck upgrade slots, what is the point in keeping them on your Chronicle sheet after you banish the card you had filling that upgrade? If this is the intent, you should be required to remove/line through the upgrade after the corresponding card got banished.Exactly. The deck doesn't remember the upgrade, why should it be expected to remember the banished card(s)?
One of the things I'd really like to see changed is how deck upgrades work is in the very first step. Get rid of "sorting all newly acquired cards by card type and place them in the center of the play area" right away. Before you do this, all of the players should have the opportunity to utilize the cards that their characters gained during playThis works in home play because everyone is part of the same group. Everyone wants you to get the best card for your character, because they are going to be playing with you in the next scenario and want you at your best. In OP, they may not ever play with your character again. That deck 2 weapon you picked up could be very useful to them in the next scenario, at least as much or maybe more so than for you.
That said, I do think it needs reworked. If the party's upgrades are 1 deck 2 weapon, 1 deck 2 spell, and 4 "B" spells, and there are 2 fighters, one rogue and one wizard, that deck 2 weapon is going to cause problems.
My suggestion would be to embrace the cooperative play and allow multiple people to choose the same upgrade. This will completely eliminate any argument and encourage people to help others acquire things during play. In the example above both fighters and the rogue could each choose the deck 2 weapon. Everybody wins!
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In the link I posted with Vic's response, it seemed like if you banish an Armor 1 card during the game and at the end of the game there was an Armor 1 card in the pile of plunder and cards obtained during play, you could regain an Armor 1 card from your class deck. If there wasn't, you had to follow the rebuild rules.
But then in the other post he says you can't rebuild based on history. i.e. Your deck doesn't remember that it had an Armor 1 card so you can't replace the banished card with another Armor 1 card.
Confused. Can you replace a banished card with the same level card if it is in the potential upgrades (and no one else takes it for their upgrade) or not?
I took that to mean that you could only replace the banished armor with an armor 1 if you chose the armor 1 as your one upgrade - basically banishing a class deck card resets that slot to Basic and it must be upgraded from scratch anew. So if the exact same card type and level is available to choose from, you can pick it as your one upgrade and replace the banished card. Of course that means your deck progression is at best just treading water.
It does make banishing from your deck a possible point of contention since it's much harder to replace in OP than in a normal game, which is why I suggest getting some acquired boons in hand before trying to do those kinds of locations that require banishing. That way there's less chance of argument or throwing the scenario because no one wants to lose a precious deck upgrade.
I also don't think the "rebuild with 2 decks lower instead of Basic" is actually in the OP rules - there's a thing about building new decks for late adventures, but I'm pretty sure if you banish an armor 6 during an AD6 scenario you get to replace it with a Basic armor.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Greyhawke, that's the exact reason I was asking. I'm investing my time into playing a character. And to have to banish an upgrade card for whatever reason and not get a replacement back seems punitive. I'd have to waste another upgrade to get that potential card back.
In a normal game if you banish a higher level card you can't get it back, so why should you in an organized play game? It's a sacrifice that you're making. If you aren't comfortable with making that sacrifice then take your damage.
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I also don't think the "rebuild with 2 decks lower instead of Basic" is actually in the OP rules - there's a thing about building new decks for late adventures, but I'm pretty sure if you banish an armor 6 during an AD6 scenario you get to replace it with a Basic armor.
Under the section about Upgrading Your Deck:
After upgrading your deck, when rebuilding the rest of your character deck, choose extra cards, if needed, from your Class Deck. Use the Starting Character rules, which are similar to the standard game rules.
I took that to mean use the "at least 2 decks lower" rule in Option 1.
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Greyhawke, that's the exact reason I was asking. I'm investing my time into playing a character. And to have to banish an upgrade card for whatever reason and not get a replacement back seems punitive. I'd have to waste another upgrade to get that potential card back.In a normal game if you banish a higher level card you can't get it back, so why should you in an organized play game? It's a sacrifice that you're making. If you aren't comfortable with making that sacrifice then take your damage.
In a normal game, you can get more than one upgrade. In most cases, you have options. In Organized Play, there is only one upgrade potentially. So banishing a card then having to replace it with another upgrade seems extreme.
Exactly. The deck doesn't remember the upgrade, why should it be expected to remember the banished card(s)?
I'm not exactly sure if you're agreeing with me here or making a counterargument....
This works in home play because everyone is part of the same group. Everyone wants you to get the best card for your character, because they are going to be playing with you in the next scenario and want you at your best. In OP, they may not ever play with your character again. That deck 2 weapon you picked up could be very useful to them in the next scenario, at least as much or maybe more so than for you.
I'd hate to sound like a jerk, but maybe they should have acquired their own weapons? Or protected the plunder better? Why should the bard not have first dibs at the cards that he earned? If the fighter makes a reasonable case, maybe he would consider giving it up to him, but I think he should not be forced to.
My suggestion would be to embrace the cooperative play and allow multiple people to choose the same upgrade. This will completely eliminate any argument and encourage people to help others acquire things during play. In the example above both fighters
That's definitely an interesting suggestion. It would eliminate arguments for sure, but I don't know if that might be a little too good. Characters would likely then get their desired upgrades much faster than the designers may have intended. That would be nice, though, if it's something that they would consider implementing. But something to think about, what would happen if there is only one new boon gained throughout the scenario? Does everyone have to share that one possible upgrade or do you still roll the die to have at least a number of boons equal to the number of players?
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Under the section about Upgrading Your Deck:
After upgrading your deck, when rebuilding the rest of your character deck, choose extra cards, if needed, from your Class Deck. Use the Starting Character rules, which are similar to the standard game rules.I took that to mean use the "at least 2 decks lower" rule in Option 1.
See, I took that to mean that you had to choose basic cards like when making a starting character; option 1 says you can't have any feat boxes checked so I figured it couldn't be used to "fill in" gaps on a previously played character. My default in OP is to interpret any rules conundrum in the most restrictive way possible, that way I know I'm likely not accidentally cheating.
I suppose this is another good FAQ question or future guide revision.
Under the section about Upgrading Your Deck:
After upgrading your deck, when rebuilding the rest of your character deck, choose extra cards, if needed, from your Class Deck. Use the Starting Character rules, which are similar to the standard game rules.I took that to mean use the "at least 2 decks lower" rule in Option 1.See, I took that to mean that you had to choose basic cards like when making a starting character; option 1 says you can't have any feat boxes checked so I figured it couldn't be used to "fill in" gaps on a previously played character. My default in OP is to interpret any rules conundrum in the most restrictive way possible, that way I know I'm likely not accidentally cheating.
I suppose this is another good FAQ question or future guide revision.
According to the OP Guide (italics added):
Starting Characters
If the scenario you’re playing has an adventure deck number of 1 or 2, when you build your starting deck, begin by using only cards that have the Basic trait and also have the set indicator B on the upper-right corner. If you do not have enough such cards to finish building your deck, you may then add cards with the B set indicator that do not have the Basic trait. If you run out of cards with the B set indicator, use set 1 cards by the same guidelines.
So that rule only applies during decks 1&2. During later decks you would use the higher level character rules which include:
Option 1: Build Your Own Character
If the scenario you’re playing has an adventure deck number of 3 or higher, you may use any cards with the set indicator B, as well as any cards with an adventure deck number at least 2 lower than that of the adventure you’re currently playing.
The only question that remains is what exactly is meant by "at least 2 lower", since in a thread about banishing basics and elites it was said to actually mean 3 lower that instance.
For the record, this is the thread where Tanis seems to say that at least two means 3.
So once you start deck 3 you can replace banished cards with any B card, once you start 4 any 1 card, etc. I'm hoping this will be clarified to 2 means 2 and we can increase all those numbers by one.
Also I'll make three points:
1. If your character can't get armor proficiency, don't take armor upgrades. It isn't a good card anyway and you'll likely end up banishing it. It's a bad play in and out of OP.
2. If you lose a card to banishing that you loved and you have a set at home, you can always rerun scenarios for card upgrades.
3. The limited upgrades in OP arguably are more powerful than the unlimited upgrades in standard play. In standard play, you are bound by what cards you find. My RotR group missed a ton of deck 5 and 6 boons because they never showed up in our locations. And there was nothing we could so about it, short of running the last ten adventures over and over. In OP, you have a much better chance of getting a card you want because you don't need it to be luckily shuffled into a location. Any card of that level will do, so you are far more likely to end up with better upgrades in OP.
Also, you don't have to banish a good card. You're deck should have plenty of basics you could banish.
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nondeskript, keep reading Option 1. It says your character can't have any feats checked, so our question is does that prevent players from using that when rebuilding? Or only when building a brand new character?
As for your 3 points
1) Yea, armor upgrades probably aren't too good of an upgrade for non-proficient characters. However, higher-level armors may have general use powers that are worth not being allowed to recharge when you reset, or not being allowed to reduce all damage to 0 without losing it. Saying an armor, even for a non-proficient character, "isn't a good card anyway" is completely dependent on how you play. I've seen characters with 0 armors in their decks end up acquiring and playing them instead of taking a 4+ hand of damage. They may not have frequent use, but to say they simply aren't good is entirely based on playstyle.
2) I'll be interested to see how many people do this. To me it's borderline unfair to do it without a group just for upgrades, but it's completely legal, so whatever.
3) I agree completely. You can only get one card at a time, but you don't need to find your level 6 Dominate. You just need to find a level 6 anyspellyoucanthinkofandfighttheothercastertothedeathforit.
Also, if you could take back banished cards, then you aren't banishing them. You're just super-burying them.
And your chronicle sheet doesn't track your deck, just your adventures. You build your deck when you start and you keep that same deck of cards, only swapping cards out when you banish or upgrade. So if you upgrade one of your items to a deck one item, that wouldn't mean you could build a deck from scratch with a deck one item and would legal. It means you take the deck you have and swap out one specific item card with a deck one item card of your choice. From then on you have that specific card in your deck until you upgrade or banish it. You don't have a "deck 1 item card". You have a Spyglass. (If that was the card you chose). Your chronicle sheet doesn't track that. It just tracks that you chose to take an item card. An organizer couldn't look at your chronicle sheet and verify that your deck is legal, since it doesn't track what cards you took.
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Andrew has the gist of my point involving Option 1. I hope that bit about "no feat boxes checked" is only for beginning new characters but it's really not specified so I err on the side of caution and assume it is until told otherwise. That means really only Option 3 is legal for a non-pregen with any feat boxes checked. We're still a ways out from adventure 3 anyway so right now it doesn't truly matter. Right now banished = replace with a Basic.
I think being able to just take back cards in your deck is a little too strong as nondeskript indicates. In a normal game, you could replace that banished card with something else nice that you found. I'd say the best way to simulate that is that if, after everyone else had picked their upgrade, you could refill a too-small deck by picking a second/third/etc upgrade from the remaining boons. So your banished deck 3 item might not be replaced but at least you got a non-Basic B item as compensation, for example. Does that lead to people gaming the system early on to ditch Basic boons to get some extra non-Basic B or 1 cards? Perhaps, but no more than in a normal game where you might deliberately banish a card you know you plan to get rid of during rebuild anyway. Obviously this is not the way it works now but right now banishing an upgraded card, is, to me, the second worst thing that can happen short of character death.
Conversely, it may be worth keeping some cards in OP that you would never keep in an ordinary game (potions, blast stone, etc.) because the upgrades they provide at the end are worth having. A 1 potion may have a tepid ability that you would ordinarily ignore or just use if you got lucky but that potion could turn into a statstone after the adventure.
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Actually, the chronicle sheet keeps track of your progress through the adventures. And the chronicle sheet can track if your deck is legal by the upgrades you've recorded. It, however, doesn't track the cards banished.
As far as solo play for upgrades ... I still have issues about people soloing scenarios in between sessions in order to upgrade/twink their deck. I wonder if they're going to implement deck audits similar to character audits in PFS RPG.
Actually, the chronicle sheet keeps track of your progress through the adventures. And the chronicle sheet can track if your deck is legal by the upgrades you've recorded. It, however, doesn't track the cards banished.
It doesn't actually track your cards, though. If Merisiel takes a Spyglass but later decides she would rather have a Helpful Haversack, there is nothing to prevent the player from switching them out between games. This isn't legal, but looking at the Chronicle sheet it will look legal. I suspect that if there is a problem with players cheating in their deck builds next season may require card list sheets in addition to chronicle sheets.
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Checking in to say I'm reviewing the Guide to figure out what we said, then making sure it matches what we meant. Resolution soon.
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I am not certain that you can replay for deck upgrades, the chronicle sheet allows you to take a scenario reward once, but it doesn't seem to say that you can or can not take a found item upgrade more than once per scenario.
In PFS you get zero loot on a replay and zero experience, if we view experience as an analog to card and power upgrades you wouldn't get that again, and if we compare a boon upgrade to gold you wouldn't get that either. In PFS replay is all risk and no reward on replays... is PACG OP the same?
So, possible FAQ question would be, when replaying a scenario, can you gain the single deck upgrade more than once, or do you not receive any deck upgrades after the first play through?
In the case of my question, this was a banishment to keep from having to discard the hand, which would have resulted in character death, something that Zarlova was more than happy to do. It seems like a fair tradeoff in this instance, but cards and locations that require banishments are a different story in terms of character risk. Nobody wants to play backwards.
As cited above, in Adventure play mode, you can gain multiple upgrades, so losing one item wouldn't necessarily hurt as much. When you are limited to one per scenario that makes it much more expensive as you essentially do not advance the strength of your hand which could skew the difficulty up if one is unfortunate enough to have it happen several times in their career.
I can see arguments both ways, but for the sanity of players and in order to foster a cooperative spirit, I think this needs to be revisited for next season. An unlucky player could lose very key items, and then lose dice rolls to upgrade if they are contested, and that will make for a very disgruntled player which could reasonably result in a loss of a player.
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NOG, it's on Page 9 of the Guide to Organized Play, under Replaying Scenarios
Your character may only gain the reward for any given scenario, adventure, or adventure path once, though you may upgrade your deck each time you complete the scenario"
You definitely can make your once-per game card upgrade on every replay.
People keep talking about the dice rolls being a problem, but this is a cooperative game. Under the "Obey the Social Contract" section, rolls probably won't happen often, and definitely should negatively affect players less when they make sacrifices. I'm going to be pushing Social Contract versus Process in all my games, every takes the card they want. Anytime multiple people can't agree on who gets a certain card, everyone else still gets to take the cards they want, and the people who couldn't come to an agreement will be the only ones who have even a chance of not getting what they want. Everyone else is safe on getting their desired card.
If anyone makes noticeably more sacrifices than a player who wants the same card as them, I highly recommend trying to convince the person to let the player who sacrified a lot take the card. This isn't just some completely random decision making process. If people play this as a cooperative game, and aren't greedy, dice rolls shouldn't come into play too often for rewards.
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NOG, it's on Page 9 of the Guide to Organized Play, under Replaying Scenarios
Your character may only gain the reward for any given scenario, adventure, or adventure path once, though you may upgrade your deck each time you complete the scenario"
Aha, it seemed too simple to not be in there!
People keep talking about the dice rolls being a problem, but this is a cooperative game. Under the "Obey the Social Contract" section, rolls probably won't happen often, and definitely should negatively affect players less when they make sacrifices. I'm going to be pushing Social Contract versus Process in all my games, every takes the card they want. Anytime multiple people can't agree on who gets a certain card, everyone else still gets to take the cards they want, and the people who couldn't come to an agreement will be the only ones who have even a chance of not getting what they want. Everyone else is safe on getting their desired card.
In 3 of the 4 that I have run multiple people wanted the same card, and in 2 of the 4 all players preferred the same card. Depending on what is drawn, you might go through the game with a single, or not even one non basic card acquired which makes a clear standout "best" at least for the first few scenarios.
We have gone with option one for all of the games I sat in on and ran a NBG setup, but everyone there was having a good time and nobody was being a dweeb so it worked out well, but I don't expect that will always be the situation. There was a second table that included a few young children, and they couldn't figure out the loot at all, I think everyone just realized that the highest number was best and they all went for it.
I like your idea, but be prepared for it to maybe not always go quite as smoothly as you envision, especially if you are playing with a smaller table size. I count myself lucky having done those four sessions all with amicable players at the table. Sample size is small, I hope to get another half dozen games in over the coming week, will report back on how it works if any data begins to arise.
Checking in to say I'm reviewing the Guide to figure out what we said, then making sure it matches what we meant. Resolution soon.
I just want to mention that it's not clearly stated that you are allowed only 1 upgrade per character per scenario. The OP Guide simply says "When you
choose a card from the play area...", then the next paragraph says "After upgrading your deck...". Some players might assume that it works similar to Adventure mode and that you can choose any number of cards, subject to approval from the rest of the group, of course.It wasn't until I read this thread that I realized that it's not what you intended.
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Checking in to say I'm reviewing the Guide to figure out what we said, then making sure it matches what we meant. Resolution soon.I just want to mention that it's not clearly stated that you are allowed only 1 upgrade per character per scenario. The OP Guide simply says "When you
choose a card from the play area...", then the next paragraph says "After upgrading your deck...".Before reading this thread, I assumed that it worked similar to Adventure mode: all the extra boons at the end of a scenario were open to all, and could be divied up however the group wanted.
It also says:
"After you upgrade your deck, record on your Chronicle sheet the type and set indicator of the card you
gained".
not "...set indicator of the cards you gained".
But yeah, clarification might help... maybe our group was reading this wrong and that is what Tanis needs to clarify? It seemed odd that there were three spots to write in upgrades when as we read it there would never be more than two. That reminds me, the reporting page only allows for one card type check mark, so in the case where someone upgraded two spells, it only allows for reporting of one of them. Not sure if that will be a problem on the back end.
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Actually, it is specific ...
Regardless of the method chosen, each player will receive exactly one deck upgrade (that is, one card) per scenario, excluding scenario rewards.
It says you only get one upgrade excluding scenario rewards. The upgrade comes from the cards gathered during play and plunder.
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It also says:
"After you upgrade your deck, record on your Chronicle sheet the type and set indicator of the card you
gained".not "...set indicator of the cards you gained".
But yeah, clarification might help... maybe our group was reading this wrong and that is what Tanis needs to clarify? It seemed odd that there were three spots to write in upgrades when as we read it there would never be more than two. That reminds me, the reporting page only allows for one card type check mark, so in the case where someone upgraded two spells, it only allows for reporting of one of them. Not sure if that will be a problem on the back end.
Just wondering, but where did you think it was two? Or are you counting the reward (if it is a card)?
So, in PFS-RPG the chronicle sheet is the official record too, right? So how often does someone actually "audit" a player's sheets to confirm that they character they are bringing to the table is legit? It seem like, especially later on, that would be a lot of work, looking through 15 adventures.
Because, they could change the sheet to include a space to record any of your class deck cards that were banished during play or not kept in your deck when rebuilding (if you somehow had more than needed amount of that type). But would anyone really still be looking through all the sheets to verify that?
I mean, I really hope no one feels the need to cheat at a cooperative game (emphasis on both words there), but does it happen enough if PFS-RPG that auditing is done regularly?
(I've never played PFS in RPG or PACG form yet, and I've only glanced at the chronicle sheets, so I have no idea how most of this works.)
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Just wondering, but where did you think it was two? Or are you counting the reward (if it is a card)?
We have been playing it as one upgrade per game, as the rules seem pretty clear on that. This is why it seems strange that there is room to write in three rewards, and yes, 0-1 has a card reward to answer the question.
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So, in PFS-RPG the chronicle sheet is the official record too, right? So how often does someone actually "audit" a player's sheets to confirm that they character they are bringing to the table is legit? It seem like, especially later on, that would be a lot of work, looking through 15 adventures.
Because, they could change the sheet to include a space to record any of your class deck cards that were banished during play or not kept in your deck when rebuilding (if you somehow had more than needed amount of that type). But would anyone really still be looking through all the sheets to verify that?
I mean, I really hope no one feels the need to cheat at a cooperative game (emphasis on both words there), but does it happen enough if PFS-RPG that auditing is done regularly?
(I've never played PFS in RPG or PACG form yet, and I've only glanced at the chronicle sheets, so I have no idea how most of this works.)
Auditing doesn't happen very often. I think up until two seasons ago it was a GM requirement, but it was dropped to a suggestion as there frequently (usually?) was not enough time to audit. Now it remains as an option should there be a question on some specific part of what a character has access to, just as it is a recommendation in the PACG OP guide.
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Auditing doesn't happen very often. I think up until two seasons ago it was a GM requirement, but it was dropped to a suggestion as there frequently (usually?) was not enough time to audit. Now it remains as an option should there be a question on some specific part of what a character has access to, just as it is a recommendation in the PACG OP guide.
Yeah, I have seen it happen once last year when a person's character was definitely tweaked. And they audited the character.
Hawkmoon, there is the chronicle sheet which provides your rewards and what you've earned (gold, exp, prestige, job) and also tracks anything you've sold back and/or bought right away. There is also a tracking sheet which shows items you've bought later with gold or PP.