So i am currently asking my DM to OK a build i had in mind for a shadow caller master summoner and if he decides to accept i am a bit befuddled at how to continue, the various "best summon by level" threads and guides all assume the base list, never giving any advice about the alternate list that fetchlings can gain through their racial archetype, most likely due to the fact that its extra work over an archetype that isnt even allowed to most races, so now i have to ask, is the archetype's summons very good? and which ones are best for each level? also, do i regain the ability to summon creatures like mephits if i take the Summon Neutral Monster feat?
Shameless self-bump
Self-bump again, can nobody help here? :(
You've got to give it some time, it's been 2 and a half hours since your original post, I'll go check it out.
i may have been a bit hasty, i was just bumping when i saw the thread fall down out of sight due to the seeming wave of updates that happens later in the day
Well, the shadow caller is kind of a nerf compared to normal summoner. The shadow creature template is not as powerful as the fiendish/celestial template because it lacks smite. Typically, one chooses an alignment that is neutral with respect to good/evil and summons celestial creatures to take on evildoers, and fiendish creatures to take on any good creatures you end up fighting.
Shadow creatures get concealment and spell resistance, which is not tremendously useful. Since you summon for minutes/level instead of rounds/level, using summoned animals for scouting is a possibility if you can get a way to talk to them. Speak with animals could work IF your GM agrees that it will still work on Outsider (augmented animal) creatures.
So the best summoned animal per level won't change much; it just will be strictly worse than its fiendish or celestial counterpart in most cases.
As for the non-animal creatures summoned:
Summon monster II: Huge nerf. Zoogs are nearly useless. Loss of small elementals and lemures is a serious reduction in power.
Summon Monster III: same thing here. No Dretch, No lantern archon, just a useless tiny Kyton.
Summon Monster IV: Hey, we actually get something useful finally! Not sure they're necessarily better than a medium elemental, hound archon, or hellhound, but at least the incorporeal undead are useful against nearly all foes, and some foes may be entirely unable to hit them. The gloomwing is more of a debuffing summon, the allip is useful, but the shadow is the best by far, since it's going to stick around for several minutes at least, and when it kills things, they become shadows under its command. You could quickly become the controller of a whole fleet of shadow spawn.
If you get to start at a level that lets you summon these, the archetype may be worth it if you don't expect to be fighting many undead or constructs.
Summon Monster V-IX: In each case, the creatures you gain aren't worth what you give up, although most of them aren't bad. (Cloakers are pointless, however.) In most cases, I'd rather use the higher level spells to summon groups of shadows or greater shadows.
I'm done compiling the list and one of the common themes is debuffing.
Your summons are not that good at fighting or tanking but are (for the most part) excellent at situational abilities and debuffing.
-Zoogs (SM II) good for detecting magical auras, bleed has minor uses
-Augur Kytons (SM III)Commune ability is useful for answering questions, the unnerving gaze is a good debuff, shaken for 1 round (might affect your party as well so be careful)
Now we start getting in the real debuffers
-Allip (SM IV) Babble ability is very good (might affect your party), the wisdom damage is an excellent debuff (potentially ending a fight in 2-3 rounds) and incorporeal means you will get a little more hits out of your summon
-Gloomwings (SM IV) His gaze like attack is ok (might affect your party), if your victim is helpless the egg laying thing it does is pretty good (but if your enemy is helpless you dont really need to damage his strength) He is however Large and he flies! So that means short range vertical transportation
-Shadow (SM IV) My favorite of the list. Does sweet sweet STR damage with touch attacks (what's not to love?) and is incorporeal. Summoning a pack of these things is enough to immobilize a giant in a couple of rounds
-Shadow mastiff (SM V) Has 2 attacks that are not that impressive.
The bay ability can be good situationally (panics everyone within 300 feet for 1d4 rounds or something)
-Shae (SM V) This one can be very good or very poor depending on how inventive you are with the shadow evocation ability this guide can help you with that. This can be your best summon or it can be your worse it's up to you
-Cloaker (SM VI) Good for infiltration, the infrasonic moan is a good debuff in stealth conditions since no one can hear it unless they can hear infrasonic. Also that moan has several different debuffs. Good defensive self buffing SLA's as well (the smother ability can be good to make enemies attack each other)
-Greater shadows (SM VII) need I say more?
-Derghodaemons (SM VIII) One of the rare combat oriented monsters on your list, feeblemind aura is a solid save or lose ability (might affect your party) has a couple of ok SLA's
-Young Umbral dragon (SM VIII) combat monster again, better against crowds (Derghodaemons are better at one on one) and good against incorporeal creatures. Large and flies as well
-Interlocutor Kython (SM IX) Good at healing, good at tanking not much else
-Nightwing (SM IX) This is the strongest of your summons, combat oriented they are good against crowds, light aversion is the only downside about this one but it is not so bad. (sickened condition in light and double that in sunlight) Take a look at the nightshade subtype, they have plenty of goodies. (channel energy and true seeing in the dark to name a few) Furthermore, This monster is huge and flies so that means short range vertical movement for the whole party!
@paladin of baha-who?
He asked for a guide to his summons list not a comparison between archetypes, he's already decided to do this build for flavor or whatever other reason.
I hope this helps
I'm done compiling the list and one of the common themes is debuffing.
Your summons are not that good at fighting or tanking but are (for the most part) excellent at situational abilities and debuffing.-Zoogs (SM II) good for detecting magical auras, bleed has minor uses
-Augur Kytons (SM III)Commune ability is useful for answering questions, the unnerving gaze is a good debuff, shaken for 1 round (might affect your party as well so be careful)
Now we start getting in the real debuffers
-Allip (SM IV) Babble ability is very good (might affect your party), the wisdom damage is an excellent debuff (potentially ending a fight in 2-3 rounds) and incorporeal means you will get a little more hits out of your summon
-Gloomwings (SM IV) His gaze like attack is ok (might affect your party), if your victim is helpless the egg laying thing it does is pretty good (but if your enemy is helpless you dont really need to damage his strength) He is however Large and he flies! So that means short range vertical transportation
-Shadow (SM IV) My favorite of the list. Does sweet sweet STR damage with touch attacks (what's not to love?) and is incorporeal. Summoning a pack of these things is enough to immobilize a giant in a couple of rounds
-Shadow mastiff (SM V) Has 2 attacks that are not that impressive.
The bay ability can be good situationally (panics everyone within 300 feet for 1d4 rounds or something)-Shae (SM V) This one can be very good or very poor depending on how inventive you are with the shadow evocation ability this guide can help you with that. This can be your best summon or it can be your worse it's up to you
-Cloaker (SM VI) Good for infiltration, the infrasonic moan is a good debuff in stealth conditions since no one can hear it unless they can hear infrasonic. Also that moan has several different debuffs. Good defensive self buffing SLA's as well (the smother ability can be good to make...
this is the kind of thing i was looking for, thanks, and what of the feat? Summon Neutral Monster? am i correct in believing that would re-add things like mephits to my summon list?
It would add them, but you wouldn't be able to add the counterpoised template unless your GM houserules it, since it replaces Celestial/Fiendish and you can't summon Celestial/Fiendish with the shadow caller.
also i just noticed something neat, by summoning a sprite an arbiter and a voidworm you have the ability to turn and look at any particular person and tell their exact alignment barring effects that prevent divinations, thats kinda neat :D