The Lady's Favor

[lantzbg]

A few questions about Scenario 2, The Lady's Favor:

After you encounter and defeat Kyan Kain, do you check to see if he escapes or do you simply set him aside until encountered again after defeating an Enemy Ship and rolling for an open location?

Is the scenario over once you obtain the required number of plunder cards or do you play until the Blessings Deck is exhausted?

thanks!

[Hawkmoon269]

I don't have my cards with me. I'd be happy to give you my interpretation, but I'd need someone to post the relevant text to do so.

[lantzbg]

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

I don't have my cards with me. I'd be happy to give you my interpretation, but I'd need someone to post the relevant text to do so.

Thanks! Here's the text:

When you defeat an Enemy Ship henchman, automatically close its location. Then randomly choose a location; if it is closed, summon and encounter the villain Commander Kyan Kain.

To win this scenario, the number of plunder cards must exceed the number of locations.

[Andrew K]

Summoned cards always go back to the box, unless specified otherwise (I believe it has to be specified by the card that summoned it). He goes back to the box, and you hope you don't randomly pick a closed location again!

[Hawkmoon269]

Yeah. You just put the villain back in the box (or aside for convenience) and keep playing. You don't need to temporarily close or check if he escapes.

And I'd say the game ends once you have more plunder than locations, however early that occurs.

[lantzbg]

Thanks for your quick response. The wording is ambiguous but I believe you are correct. We'll see if anyone else has any input.

thanks again!

[Andrew K]

What's the scenario wording?

[lantzbg]

Hi, I posted it above...

[Andrew K]

Sorry, I didn't see you had put the part about plunder. Definitely ends right when you get the right amount.

[nondeskript]

Interestingly it doesn't actually say that it ends then, just that you must meet those criteria or you don't win. An argument could be made that you have to also corner and defeat the villain. If the intention is that you win once you have more plunder than locations it should say

"You win this scenario once the number of plunder cards exceeds the number of locations."

[Hawkmoon269]

I'm not looking at the cards, but given the text on the scenario card that was posted, I'm not sure their is a villain to be cornered. The only villain seems to be the summoned one. And you don't need to corner them. Think about Iesha Foxglove or The Sandpoint Devil in RotR. They didn't have any effect on winning the game or require you to corner them.

[nondeskript]

I agree. I think it is unwinnable as written. There is nothing to trigger an ending, other than closing all locations or burning through the blessings deck. I guess if at that point you have more plunder you could win.

[Andrew K]

Thinking back to Black Magga, you are correct it doesn't specify an ending. Also, closing all locations doesn't end a scenario under normal rules, it just normally does because you've met the game-ending requirement of cornering the villain with nowhere to go.

I believe this scenario did have a villain though, I don't remember seeing any no-villain scenarios. So you would end it by blessings or cornering the villain. It makes sense too because now you have to make sure don't lose any plunder after reaching the necessary threshold.

[Mike Selinker]

The Lady's Favor wrote:

To win this scenario, the number of plunder cards must exceed the number of locations.

This is the win condition. Once you have more plunder than locations, you win. No other requirement is needed, and it is impossible to win any other way since no villain is ever in a location deck.

I suppose we could FAQ this, but it seems unnecessary to me. The wording is "To win, do this." So do that and you win.

[Andrew K]

I suppose the difference between this and Black Magga is you actually know when you've met the requirement so you could end it early. If there is no villain (I thought there was one in the decks) then I can see it ending right then and there. I think it would be one of those FAQ entries where it won't be needed much probably, but it couldn't hurt to have.

[nondeskript]

Mike Selinker wrote:

The Lady's Favor wrote:

To win this scenario, the number of plunder cards must exceed the number of locations.

This is the win condition. Once you have more plunder than locations, you win. No other requirement is needed, and it is impossible to win any other way since no villain is ever in a location deck.

I suppose we could FAQ this, but it seems unnecessary to me. The wording is "To win, do this." So do that and you win.

Understood. My concern is that the wording sounds like an additional condition that must be met to win rather than a condition that ends the scenario immediately in a win.

For example if you created a scenario with a standard villain in a deck that you needed to beat to win and the players also needed to get more plunder than the number of locations when they defeated her for it be a win, you could the exact same wording was used here.

[Firedale2002]

nondeskript wrote:

Mike Selinker wrote:

The Lady's Favor wrote:

To win this scenario, the number of plunder cards must exceed the number of locations.

This is the win condition. Once you have more plunder than locations, you win. No other requirement is needed, and it is impossible to win any other way since no villain is ever in a location deck.

I suppose we could FAQ this, but it seems unnecessary to me. The wording is "To win, do this." So do that and you win.

Understood. My concern is that the wording sounds like an additional condition that must be met to win rather than a condition that ends the scenario immediately in a win.

For example if you created a scenario with a standard villain in a deck that you needed to beat to win and the players also needed to get more plunder than the number of locations when they defeated her for it be a win, you could the exact same wording was used here.

That would be a different scenario, though. This scenario is this scenario, and that is the only win condition. It's not really the designers' faults if players decide to arbitrarily add their own rules to the game that aren't a part of it already, nor is it their fault if players decide to ignore the rules that are a part of it.

The scenario literally tells you how to win it, even using the words "To win this scenario" as Mike points out.

The rules already include this as a way to win.

S&S Rules V1 wrote:

After the Scenario

...
Ending a Scenario, Adventure, or Adventure Path
...
If the players defeat the villain and prevent him from escaping,
or they achieve a different condition for winning listed on the
scenario card, your group defeats the scenario and earns the reward
listed on the scenario card.

So, ANY scenario that says something like "you win if you do ___" leads to immediate victory once you do ___. That's in the rules.

It is only a conditional for victory if it says something like "you cannot win unless ___" or "you cannot defeat the villain unless ___."

In your example, if it used the same wording, the players would actually have 2 ways to win, as they would win if they defeat the villain completely OR if they get the plunder, as both lead to victory by the rules. (That being said, that scenario would probably end up with a FAQ entry because there would most likely be a considerable amount of people assuming that you had to do both to win, as opposed to winning if you do either one.)

If the scenario says that you win when you do something, then you win when you do that something, regardless of what else is going on. Plain and simple.

[Andrew K]

I didn't know that line was in the rulebook. If that's the case, no FAQ needed. If you read the rules, you know what to do. If you don't, well that's not a reason for an FAQ entry.

[lantzbg]

Thank you Mike for an official response! I'm loving the new scenario variables. Gives the game a lot of replay ability and keeps the interest levels up!

[Troymk1]

So I just achieved more plunder than locations and popped in to see if that was a sudden death victory condition.

Well it sure is, however I forgot all about Commander Kyan Kain!

So....let's count this a loss ~sigh~

[Troymk1]

And, in something approaching weird irony, my replay was only 3 characters in and it was over !

Jirelle defeated an enemy ship at Pinnacle Atoll to add 2 plunder ( I would need 9 to win)

Seltyiel than ran into Pirate hunting and defeated the magpie Princess for another ( current total 4)

Lirianne then acted and was Goblin Keelhauled, she is wearing Besmara's Tricorne so no trouble and + 5 plunder for a grand total of nine

And I have still not ever faced Commander Kyan Kain :/

[Cleanthes]

Mike Selinker wrote:

The Lady's Favor wrote:

To win this scenario, the number of plunder cards must exceed the number of locations.

This is the win condition. Once you have more plunder than locations, you win. No other requirement is needed, and it is impossible to win any other way since no villain is ever in a location deck.

I suppose we could FAQ this, but it seems unnecessary to me. The wording is "To win, do this." So do that and you win.

Fwiw, I just played this scenario with my kids, and we were confused enough about how we were supposed to handle the villain and closing requirements that I came here to the boards to seek aid, and was surprised not to see a FAQ for it. I then had to track down this thread. Based on my admittedly individual experience, a FAQ would be helpful.