Arcanist and armors.


Rules Questions

Sczarni

Hey guys,

So, the arcanist class feature Arcane exploit(such as acid jet, flame arc, etc.) are super natural abilities, so they don't have any spell failure. (They also don't provoke.)

With this you can essentially multiclass with a martial class, and wear armors and don't care about your wizards spells but still have access to your exploits.

Basically, I am thinking about a heavy armored fighter that can spit Flame Arc at enemies...without any worries about AoO or spell failures.
Oh, and he will still have his cantrips. But his INT going to be at 10. :)

I just want to make sure that I am not missing anything.

Dark Archive

Hmm. Just in case you hadn't considered it, I would expect a full caster class that doesn't actually use its spells would be quite weak. Those spells tend to be the bulk of the power of a full caster, particularly the arcane ones.

Sczarni

Darkholme wrote:
Hmm. Just in case you hadn't considered it, I would expect a full caster class that doesn't actually use its spells would be quite weak. Those spells tend to be the bulk of the power of a full caster, particularly the arcane ones.

I don't know if it's weak perse; but I'm taking the exploits potential to the max.

Let's have an example lvl2 build, PFS legal.
Human Fighter 1/ Arcanist 1
STR 16 (14+2)
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16

With longsword and hvy shield, full plate.
AC 21
HP 20 (+Toughness)

On melee: +4 atk, 1d8+3
On range with flame arc: 1d6+3 (REF DC of 14) (4 times/day)

Movement is going to be 20; but I can hit enemies within 30f with flame arc.

3 Feats as a level 1 fighter means I will be more than adequate in combat.

Now for a normal game, a level 18 arcane caster will wipe a lvl9Arcanist/level9 Fighter out. However if taking consideration of a PFS PC, then this will give you a lot of offensive power up front.
Since Arcane caster classes usually suffer the "I'm out of spell" early levels, with this class you just go in for melee if you are out of spells and tank dmg also.


Well, no...that sucks. Try this instead!

Str 17 (15+2) Increase at level 4.
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 08
Cha 16

Bloodrager Abyssal 1
Sorceror Abyssal 1
Arcanist X, First exploit is Bloodline Development.

Now, you can still use your heavy armor and claws and all that jazz...

Primarily select spells with no arcane failure (True Strike, Blur, Ghost Sound, etc) for the first few levels, and generally rely on your supernatural abilities and high strength. Add points to Int after level 4 because you want 6th level spells at 12. Get one of those amulets with the +1 full plate that vanishes on command.

Now, at level 16, with this build, you'll have a +10 morale bonus and +4 inherent bonus to strength while bloodraging, and free claws. Ouch!

Otherwise, keep the plate armor folded up and play full caster until the spells run dry.

The best way to do this, if you have an aasimar with 1xp:

Aasimar (Scion of Humanity)
Sorceror (pick something) 1
Fighter (unbreakable) 1
Eldritch Knight --> 10, then sorcerer

Keep the folding plate cheese until you hit EK 10, make sure to specialize with a keen large crit range weapon so you can cast a spell as a swift action on criticals without worrying about spell failure.

Extended Infernal Healing with the Fast Healer feat before you open your plate tremendously increases survivability.


Well. The major question is how you plan to divide out your levels. Fighter 1/Arcanist X? Or keeping the two matched, probably with EK mixed in? That question is going to affect how much you want to be a fighter and how much you want to rely on being able to slap the other guy with Ice Missiles while laughing off his counterattacks.

The folding plate idea is a good one though. I'd definitely use that.


Also, the Arcanist (like the Witch) is actually proficient with light armor.


I suppose you can do what you're asking, but for the cost of a couple feats, you could just take arcane armor mastery and wear some decent, albeit not heavy, armor and have access to both your feats and your exploits.

Or you could just take Still Spell and prepare all your spells at 1 slot higher while wearing any kind of armor. Access to your spells a level higher than otherwise is better than no spells at all.

Sczarni

Pupsocket wrote:
Also, the Arcanist (like the Witch) is actually proficient with light armor.

What book are you reading from?

RAW:
"Arcanists are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with an arcanist's gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail."

Arksangiel wrote:

Add points to Int after level 4 because you want 6th level spells at 12. Get one of those amulets with the +1 full plate that vanishes on command.

Now, at level 16, with this build, you'll have a +10 morale bonus and +4 inherent bonus to strength while bloodraging, and free claws. Ouch!

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but this is an idea for PFS. Anything beyond lvl12 are useless for this.


Kitora wrote:
Pupsocket wrote:
Also, the Arcanist (like the Witch) is actually proficient with light armor.

What book are you reading from?

RAW:
"Arcanists are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with an arcanist's gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail."

Core Rulebook, p. 118.


Pupsocket wrote:
Kitora wrote:
Pupsocket wrote:
Also, the Arcanist (like the Witch) is actually proficient with light armor.

What book are you reading from?

RAW:
"Arcanists are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with an arcanist's gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail."
Core Rulebook, p. 118.

I don't believe Arcanists are in that book.


Pupsocket wrote:
Core Rulebook, p. 118.

I'm going to assume you are referring to:

Armor Proficiency, Light wrote:
Special: All characters except monks, sorcerers, and wizards automatically have Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.

The core rulebook was written before the existence of classes outside of the core rulebook. Hence, wording in the book that includes all but X classes does not take into account classes that did not exist at the time. Since that is the case, the rules that are specified in the book where the new class is introduced are used instead. The Arcanist class rules specify that it does not have proficiency in light armor, as shown in the posts above.

In other words, the feat description is general while the class description is specific, and specific overrides general.

If you only use the feats to determine what classes get what armor proficiencies, then inquisitors, cavaliers, and several other classes only have light armor proficiency, instead of the medium/heavy proficiencies they are given.


Ziere Tole wrote:
Pupsocket wrote:
Core Rulebook, p. 118.

I'm going to assume you are referring to:

Armor Proficiency, Light wrote:
Special: All characters except monks, sorcerers, and wizards automatically have Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.

The core rulebook was written before the existence of classes outside of the core rulebook. Hence, wording in the book that includes all but X classes does not take into account classes that did not exist at the time. Since that is the case, the rules that are specified in the book where the new class is introduced are used instead. The Arcanist class rules specify that it does not have proficiency in light armor, as shown in the posts above.

In other words, the feat description is general while the class description is specific, and specific overrides general.

If you only use the feats to determine what classes get what armor proficiencies, then inquisitors, cavaliers, and several other classes only have light armor proficiency, instead of the medium/heavy proficiencies they are given.

Oh, I agree; reading things in context makes it clear that Arcanists are not proficient in armor. But a strict procedural reading does give them that proficiency, and I think that's funny.

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