I'm thinking about starting a cleric, but since I have no experience playing one I need a little help. I looked for some guides, but they were all either old (CRB and APG) or extremely incomplete (if you know of a good one I'd like to see it).
So, I'd like some advice. what kinds of ability scores do you use, what are some good domains and such. Also, are the variant channeling a thing that can be used every game like archetypes, or are they variant rules that completely change the game?
|
The cleric guides are really pretty good. The extra books add a few options, but the basics have not changed much.
Your first decision is what sort of cleric to play. Clerics are so versatile that two different builds can be utterly unlike each other, more so than if they were different classes. E.g. Compare an in-your-face battle cleric to a casting-specialized primary healer, and you will find they have little in common besides a similar spell list (with totally different prepared spells) and D8 HP.
Tark's cleric guide, aka Tark's Big Holy Book of Clerical Optimization has a chapter about Types of Cleric. They are:
Support Cleric: The “Default” build. A support caster that can wade into melee with weapon and shield to dish out some beats on his own when needed.
Battle Cleric: The melee beast that at one point was a better fighter than the class by the same name.
Archer Cleric: Part support caster, part long range threat a good balanced build that works for every situation.
The Lord of Undeath: Necromancers got some very nice upgrades in Pathfinder that makes this build worth taking into high levels.
The Bad Touch Cleric: The total opposite of the support cleric. Where he buffs, you debuff, where he remains outside of combat, you flit in and out of danger flirting with disaster and sewing chaos and discord with every step you tread.
The Pure Casting Cleric: You’re no wizard harry. But you don’t necessarily have to be. The caster cleric focuses almost entirely upon the cleric’s casting ability making him ideal for low point buy games or just badly rolled characters.
____________________________________________________________________
The above list is still current. Some of the above types now have established subtypes (e.g. Reach Cleric is sort of an optimized subtype of Battle Cleric). There's also the Hangover Cleric, which is now viable. Your first step is decide what type of cleric you want to build. Once that's decided, then it's possible to discuss things like attribute distribution.
Re. your 2nd question, about Variant Channeling:
A cleric takes Variant Channeling like an archetype. Most of the variant channels are not strong, mechanically. Channeling is generally not strong, mechanically speaking. Check with your GM, but variant channeling is usually available. Note that Variant Channeling is generally associated strictly with a Deity's Portfolio, which is not the same as cleric domains.
What kind of cleric do you want to play? First step is making this decision.
There are basically 5 different kinds of clerics:
- Standard Casters- pump WIS to the max, focus on spellcasting. This is often roped into the healbot niche because you focus on getting extra spells. Healing Domain is a good choice, as is Protection and/or Defense for focusing on spellcasting and not combat. You will spend a lot of time buffing and throwing out Save or Die spells usually because the cleric really doesn'y make for a good DPR blaster. Scribe Scroll is an amazing feat for this because it let's you add to your versatility.
- Standard Melee- Formerly referred to as ClericZilla, you have to really balance those stats, focusing primarily on STR, CON, and WIS. You build to do melee combat, so spells like Divine Favor, Blessing of Fervor, and other strong buffs are what you prepare most of the time. Remember to often set up with Sanctuary to allow yourself time to buff. Heighten Spell let's Sanctuary matter at later levels. Pretty much always expect to take Power Attack on this kind of build. Good Domain choices are Travel for added mobility which makes combat a lot easier, and either something to pump your attacks like Strength Domain, War Domain, or Destruction Domain.
- Channel Battery- This kind of build focuses on the clerics ability to channel energy. Most commonly this build is great in campaigns where you know there will be lots of undead for you to damage and destroy. Channel Smite and Guided Hand make your melee prowess pretty alright so your stats can focus on WIS, CHA, and possibly also STR. If you're going to go into variant channeling, or channel negative energy, this is how you build. Travel is another good Domain choice here because mobility again becomes a factor, only problem is that channeling doesn't really gain too many more uses. Good news, Improved Channel stacks with Ability Focus (Channel Energy) if the DM allows that kind of shenanigans. Spell Finesse is a 3PP feat that let's you switch your primary casting stat to CHA which gives you synergy with your channeling ability.
- Archer Clerics- These are not anywhere near as good as they were in 3.5 because Zen Archery went from being a fet to being an entire class... a monk class. Focus on DEX and WIS. Good domains are things like Feather Subdomain which boosts your Perception checks, and Revelation Subdomain gives it to you as a class skill. The archery feats are pretty much gonna eat up all of your options here, Point Blank, Precise, Rapid, and Many Shot(s) along with Deadly Aim are pretty much all of your feat choices.
- Reach Clerics- This is a very strong build that plays with the game's mechanics to optimize all of the different things a cleric needs to do in a round. Not unlike the standard melee guy from before, you are going to spend some time buffing yourself. Only difference, you can buff and attack in the same turn. It requires that you have at least 15 DEX, and you have to take Combat Reflexes and eventually Lunge. Idea here is that you will be casting a spell during your regular turn, then instead of attacking on your next turn, you will use a reach weapon (most likely the longspear) and your Attacks of Opportunity to make attacks in the same turn that you cast your buffs. Because of the speed and efficient use of resources, this is often heralded as a great use of a cleric build. Good Domains are things that boost your damage potential, like Strength or War.
|
Advice above is excellent. I just want to wade in and tell you NOT to make the same mistake I did with my PFS Cleric. I took a low Charisma, not realizing I needed a 13 Charisma for Selective Channeling feat. Without it my chenneling will heal everyone, including the bad guys. Nothing I can do to change it, the character is past 2nd level so I am stuck.
Remember - charisma of 13 or better if you are going to be a healing cleric! Select Selective Channeling at first level.
|
|
Agreed, the default Support Cleric build is usually advised to take a decent Charisma, positive channeling, and the Selective Channeling feat. A support cleric can get by without that feat, but at the potentially serious cost of occasionally healing a foe. E.g. An Evangelist Cleric support build, which gets bardic Inspire Courage in exchange for weak channels, sometimes will not bother with Selective Channeling.
Okay, this is good advice so far. I have only built wizards so far, that have quite a bit of flexibility in gameplay but don't have that much range in the character build, so I didn't think a fellow prepared caster has such a large spectrum.
How much would you say the wisdom needs to be maxed out in the different builds? Are there enough SoS spells to justify a 20 wisdom at level 1, can you go as far down as a 16? The game will probably be low level, so I might start with the level 4 ability boost and maybe get at some point to the level 8 boost, but I doubt we'll move fast enough to get to the 12 anytime soon.
|
|
I've played melee clerics that started with a 13 Wisdom, but 14 is usually considered the minimum. One needs just enough Wisdom to cast the maximum spell level. PFS PCs retire at 11th level, where you want to have at least 16 WIS to cast 6th level spells. Never cast spells offensively. There are enough support spells to easily fill all spell slots.
Wizards have much better offensive spells than do clerics. It's usually not worth while to pump WIS to 20, but some casters do. E.g. A Theologian Archetype Cleric of the Fire Domain is arguably the best blaster & battlefield control caster in the game. That build casts Fireball metamagic better than an equivalent wizard, can wear lots of armor and carry a shield, is a martial combatant, and can also heal.
At low levels the various battle clerics are extremely effective. As levels increase the caster cleric approach catches up with, and eventually surpasses, the battle cleric approach. E.g. A low level battle cleric is a primary frontline martial combatant, and can also heal 80% as well as a healing specialist cleric who does not fight.
Even though it makes total sense I have a very strong urge to slap you for taking 13 on your main casting stat XD I guess you can take the roleplayer out of the class but you can't take the class out of the roleplayer.
Okay, two more questions for the mix:
1. What action does it take to start the unspecified domain abilities? Examples of this are Destructive Aura, Might of the Gods, Chaos Blade etc.
2. Why is power attack held in such high regard? Isn't the penalty to the attack roll extremely painful for a medium BAB class?
|
|
Okay, two more questions for the mix:
1. What action does it take to start the unspecified domain abilities? Examples of this are Destructive Aura, Might of the Gods, Chaos Blade etc.
2. Why is power attack held in such high regard? Isn't the penalty to the attack roll extremely painful for a medium BAB class?
1. Usually when it's not specified the answer is a Standard Action. However, in this case that would be incorrect. Might of the Gods seems to be a free action, and only applies to non-combat uses of Strength. I'm not sure which 'Destructive Aura' you mean. Chaos Blade is also fuzzy, but I think that one is supposed to be 'Standard Action to perform, then lasts x rounds'. Anyone have a better answer?
2. Math favors almost always using Power Attack with a two handed weapon. That's -1 to hit for +3 damage. Situations where it's best to turn off power attack are rare, so the simplest answer is 'always power attack'. That said, if you miss on a natural 18 then turn off Power Attack. Consider running, too, when that happens. Perhaps turn off Power Attack when your foe is nearly dead, to avoid overkill. In all other situations power attack is a win. If in doubt, Power Attack!
|
|
Well like they mentioned on the domains entry, unless it is specified, it is a standard action, which makes some powers not very good to use.
If the game is going to be low level like you mentioned, you might consider just playing a warpriest if you want to do a melee cleric. Swift action will find some uses with the warpriest and avoid you to waste too many actions on buffing yourself up.
Beside that when it comes to domains for cleric, it varies a lot, depend on your setting , alignment etc...and available gods.
2. Okay, the math makes complete sense and I feel stupid.
1.a. Destructive aura is the 8th level power of the destruction domain.
1.b. Why do you think Might of the Gods is a free action and Chaos Blade not? they have the same activation description, and chaos blade isn't very good if it takes a standard action.
Eltacolibre- currently this is purely research on clerics on general, as the game is still a bit off and a lot of things aren't decided, but I'll look at the warpriest. As for gods and other criteria, it's a homebrew game, and anything could go if I have a good explanation, so if you know of a great combo that isn't usually available do tell.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would never play a cleric that can't cast spells unless he finds an item .
Min ever is 15 wis and up it as the spells come .
If playing a battle cleric, 13 or 14 should be enough for PFS. You can always put your level ups into Wisdom. Strength is more important at first level. I would go higher for a more pure caster, but it still isn't as SAD as a wizard build can be.