So I fell in love with the bolt ace when I saw it. I started out trying make a huge vital strike but that failed. Even with a double crossbow it was just not enough.
With all buffs going (witch only 2 free actions and swift) his attack sequence is +42/+42/+42/+37/+37/+32/+32/+27 for 1d8+4d6+50 with a keen light crossbow. With a permanent reduce person a small race can use a bird as a mount. This allows movement and a full attack every round. No cover or concealment has any effect and no range penalties.
Average damage for all hits and not crits is 616. The weapon is keen so crits aught to outweight misses.
I went goblin but any small race with a dex bonus will do quite well. A halfling will have a better cha and could take divine protection. Just need to change 1 archetype to gain blessings. I think a human would be more playable. Change the bird companion to roc and that should solve the mount issue. The roc is really a better mount.
I want to find a way to drop the bird to diminutive and myself to fine so I can fly through my foes spaces while peppering them with itty bity bolts.
One assumption is that gloves of dueling can be combined with gloves of storing for extra cost. Another is that gloves of storing will allow two weapon fighting with crossbows. Not sure if quick draw allows sheathing but if it does then that will allow it as well but for feat. My last assumption is that the trifler trait allows arcane strike.
Not sure the best favored enemies to take. Instant enemy can be cast 4 times so that will help. Wands can help with the 1st and 2nd level spells but they are not on the list. Skills are not calculated but the maxed out ones should be good except UMD witch is just enough to work the staff.
Although this build invokes AoO when reloading your mount can use bodyguard on you 6 times around and adds 9 to you AC for doing so. He aids on anything but a 1.
The bird will fight defensively every round with crane style witch takes his AC to a respectable 53.
Treasure is quite a bit over for 20th level but is with in the limit if you train in master crafter and make most of the stuff yourself. 44K left if you do things that way. Doubled up thing are for the bird.
treasure:
Permanent Reduce Person 8K
Wish x5 +5 Dex 134K
Belt of Dex/Con +6 90K
Belt of Dex 36K
Headband of Wis +6 36K
Bracers of Armor +8 64K
+5 benevolent Chain shirt 28K
2x Amulet of Natural Armor +5 100K
2x Ring of Protection +5 100K
2x Luck Stone (+1Luck to Saves) 40K
Gloves of Storing/Dueling 30K
Boots of Speed 12k
2x Light Crossbow +1 Corrosive, Shock, Flaming, Frost, Keen, Distance, Ghost Touch, Furious 326K
Efficient Quiver 2k
2x Dusty Rose Prism (+1 insight to AC) 10K
Jingasa of the Fortunate Solider (+1 Luck to AC) 5K
Clock of Resistance +5 25K
3x Cracked Pale Green Prism (2x +1 Competence to Saves/Attacks) 12K
2x Clear Spindle (No food/Water) 8K
2x Wayfinder 1K
2x Cracked Pearly White Spindle (Regen 1/hr) 8K
2x Eyes of the Eagle 5K
Sky Marines Elite Saddle 14K
2x Dark Blue Rhomboid (Alertness) 20K
2x Iridescent Spindle (No Air) 18K
Cloak of Elvenkind (+5 Stealth) 4K
Bolts 1K
10 Adamantine Bolts 600
10 Cold Iron Bolts 2
10 Elysain Bronze 200
10 Silver 3
20 Bolts 2
Random Gear 1k
Staff of Greater Magic Weapon +5/Detect magic 27k
Wealth Life Style 1K
2x Ring or freedom of Movement 80 K
5x Amber Spindle (+5 resistance to saves) 50K
Pale Rube Trillion (+5 Competence to stealth) 5K
Total 1290K (830K with master crafter + 6K retraining)
If some one wants to present this better (because I suck) I would be grateful.
No comments on crossbow user who breaks 600 damage a round, ignores all cover, has no range penalties, flies, and can more 80 feet a round while full attacking.
Defenses are pretty good to except will.
The mount has poor saves for 20th level play but I know not what to do about that.
Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen.
Good news is, Bracers of Falcon's Aim is an inexpensive and comparable alternative. I'd suggest seeking in place of keen, for dealing with all non-concealment based miss chance.
Quick draw does not decrease the time it takes to sheath a weapon.
Bolt Aces get Vigilant Loading as a first level deed, so no need to worry about provoking while reloading. Point-blank master would keep you from provoking while firing, but with your mobility I might not worry about it.
Signature Deed requires 11 levels in gunslinger. If you stick with Bolt Ace till level 11, inexplicable reload can reduce the reload time of a crossbow from a free action to "not an action", which looks to mean your crossbow is loaded automatically, with no action on your part (it is called inexplicable reload, after all). If so, no need for gloves of storing for TWF.
Not sure I see the need for the ricochet shot deed and signature deed (ricochet shot). You're already investing in a mount for the mobility, so you should be able to get line of effect without it. I'd go for improved precise shot instead, and if you stick with Bolt Ace to 11, signature deed (sharp shoot). You've got a high attack bonus, but hitting touch AC is never a bad idea. It also cuts the need for blind-fight.
Otherwise, looks solid! Haven't investigated the ranger levels.
Thanks for the feed back. Nice find on the Bracers. Will have to pay more for them to combine with bracers of armor. Seeking will work for those rare times that blink is around. Wish I could find a way to get around the wind spells. Ricochet helps against walls but if it is windy everywhere then it is more difficult.
I thought that signature deed was character level 11. Thanks for catching that. I will change it to improved precise shot.
I typed wrong the the source of the AoO but I agree with you on the point blank master.
Not sure I will drop the deed since it gets around total concealment and cover but with IPS I can just pay the grit when needed. The deed also gets rid of any range penalties since you can shoot far and then pick the origin square.
This build works great but assumes you can two weapon fight with a glove of storing. If not I will need an extra hand hopefully with out giving up +20 BAB.
Ranger provides all the bonus feats for twf and a +6 favored enemy that I can target on anyone 3 times a day. Traded out favored terrain for iron will and +2 nat armor 100 min a day in 10 min segments.
Six more levels of gunslinger would be harsh but might be the only way to get two fighting on full BAB. Maybe a small tiefling with prehensile tail but I would need animal soul for reduce animal since reduce person would not work. A level of witch would work but hurts deadly aim and is only for a few min a day. Alchemist costs even more but works better.
signiture deed is lv 11 bolt ace, gunslinger, swashbuckler. I wish it was just lv 11 though, or had a footnote for lv 11 and requiring the get some grit feets.
big note for the damage is saw you doing.
How are you getting an arcane caster level for Arcane Strike? Ranger is divine, I don't see a trait for it. Is it some SLA on your race? (I know little of non standard races)
Your small or reduced right? Your damage dice isn't reduced appropriately
Reduce person's last paragraph
"Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves the reduced creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them)."
The last line specifies projectiles damage is based on the size of weapon, so your smaller xbow would deal smaller damage dice.
I have arcane strike prereqs with the trifler feat that grants prestidigitation 3 times a day.
I am small and reduced so I am in fact tiny. I need to change the damage to d6 since I am using gravity bow. I thought the damage would be base on projectile but was wrong.
To bad about signature deed but I can see reserving some things as special to a class.
Thanks for the catch. Damage goes down by 9 but is still over 600/rd average. That is with no crits and no miss.
What I really need is a diminutive monstrous humanoid and ring of continuation. With reduce person I am fine and pup shape with reduce animal gets me a diminutive mount.
The mount gets worse and only my accuracy goes up.
That would be fun though.
I want to be the brownies is willow doing 600 damage a round.
Personally, as a GM, I would not allow Trifler to qualify you for Arcane Strike. You do not actually have the ability to actually cast arcane spells. Prestidigitation becomes a "spell-like ability", usable thrice daily. I may be splitting hairs here, but you're trying to cheese the system.
Also, I'm not sure how you're pulling off dual wielding ANY kind of crossbow, but it sounds like more rule-bending cheese.
The system can be easily enough cheesed without pulling stuff like what you're doing. For example, my Ratfolk Gulch Gunner/Urban Barbarian/Vivisectionist (or Mutagen Warrior) combo is plenty cheesy without even BENDING the rules. And I'm not even going into the feats, traits, magic items, etc. that would be inclusive with my concept/build.
Personally, as a GM, I would not allow Trifler to qualify you for Arcane Strike. You do not actually have the ability to actually cast arcane spells. Prestidigitation becomes a "spell-like ability", usable thrice daily. I may be splitting hairs here, but you're trying to cheese the system.
Also, I'm not sure how you're pulling off dual wielding ANY kind of crossbow, but it sounds like more rule-bending cheese.
The system can be easily enough cheesed without pulling stuff like what you're doing. For example, my Ratfolk Gulch Gunner/Urban Barbarian/Vivisectionist (or Mutagen Warrior) combo is plenty cheesy without even BENDING the rules. And I'm not even going into the feats, traits, magic items, etc. that would be inclusive with my concept/build.
So, you are houseruling this FAQ out of your game?
Personally, as a GM, I would not allow Trifler to qualify you for Arcane Strike. You do not actually have the ability to actually cast arcane spells. Prestidigitation becomes a "spell-like ability", usable thrice daily. I may be splitting hairs here, but you're trying to cheese the system.
Also, I'm not sure how you're pulling off dual wielding ANY kind of crossbow, but it sounds like more rule-bending cheese.
100% Legal. It strikes some people as "cheesy" at first, but once you get down to it, it doesn't actually let you do anything that powerful.
He's dual-wielding Hand Crossbows, which are in the CRB and explicitly count as light weapons for dual wielding. You probably never saw them because there was literally no reason to use one, let alone two, until now. Reloading them would probably require Bolt Ace 11 + Rapid Reload to reduce the reload time to "not an action".
You want the Alluring, The Lantern Bearer, Light-Bringer, The Patriarch, or Wendifa Apprentice trait, which give you a Spell-Like Ability with a caster level equal to your Character Level.
Thanks, those are much better for arcane strike purposes. I did not know they were there. That is a lot of damage at higher levels.
I am actually using light crossbows with the extra -2 penalty.
Rapid reload plus a glove of storing for the twf bit. Many think this is to many free actions and I tend to agree.
Could not find Patriarch, lantern bear, or wendifa traits but alluring is quite nice.
I am working on a new build that uses mutation warrior 7 gain an extra arm. That way I do not need the glove of storing. At 20th level I go full cheese and can justify going way over on wealth and having a custom staff but when I try the level 8, 12 and 16 version I will stick to regular WBL.
Flurry blows for 3 extra attacks on full bab
Rapid shot for 1 extra attack
haste/speed for 1 extra attack
ki for 1 extra attack
So (just bab and the mods from flurry and rapid shot with extra attacks from speed and ki):
+16 (base)
+16 (rapid shot)
+16 (ki)
+16 (flurry of blows)
+16 (speed)
+11 (base)
+11 (flurry of blows)
+8 (base)
+8 (flurry of blows)
+3 (base)
You have up to 10 attacks with only have 1 weapon, you don't have to worry about the reloads, and only two classes.
Of course you still have weapon training, the dex to damage and so on.
Well it probably won't help you. but on my bolt ace I dipped Hunter for the aspects and for spells. in particular gravity bow and eventually reloading hands.
but wands is likely easier for ya
Personally, as a GM, I would not allow Trifler to qualify you for Arcane Strike. You do not actually have the ability to actually cast arcane spells. Prestidigitation becomes a "spell-like ability", usable thrice daily. I may be splitting hairs here, but you're trying to cheese the system.
Also, I'm not sure how you're pulling off dual wielding ANY kind of crossbow, but it sounds like more rule-bending cheese.
100% Legal. It strikes some people as "cheesy" at first, but once you get down to it, it doesn't actually let you do anything that powerful.
He's dual-wielding Hand Crossbows, which are in the CRB and explicitly count as light weapons for dual wielding. You probably never saw them because there was literally no reason to use one, let alone two, until now. Reloading them would probably require Bolt Ace 11 + Rapid Reload to reduce the reload time to "not an action".
Yes, 100% legal, and still 100% cheesy abuse (IMHO). Even worse going the trait route to qualify for scaling arcane damage. Our games allow for a lot of, hmmm... flexibility in regard to rules, but I'm pretty sure everyone at my table would agree with my opinion on this.
As far as dual wielding crossbows... I know what a hand crossbow is. I also read the write-up for the character. Light crossbows. Only 5 or 6 levels of Bolt Ace, so no Inexplicable Reload. And reloading is the issue. How do you reload when you don't have a free hand with which to reload? Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of dual-wielding crossbows (or pistols), but the reload is the issue. I suppose Gloves of Storing would work, but... eh, I'm just not keen on it. But I guess it would work.
Maybe I should totally cheese my GM. My Ratfolk chose the Double-Barreled Pistol as his gun of choice. Why not dual-wield those with Gloves of Storing? Imagine the level 20 potential. (I think I just made myself sick. :P)
Uh oh... I may have found a hole in the Glove of Storing idea. These last two lines in the item write-up:
"A glove of storing uses up the wearer’s entire hands slot. The wearer may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot."
Since a single glove can only store a single item at any given time, how are you reloading both crossbows (or pistols... or whatevers)? In order to store the second crossbow in the glove, you would first have to extract the first crossbow from the glove. Now that hand is occupied by a crossbow, so you can't very well (or very easily) place the other crossbow in the glove while the hand is occupied, and switching hands might be tricky.
Now, if your GM ignores this specific limitation on the magic item, allowing you to have two Gloves of Storing, then the idea is completely feasible, if pushing the suspension of disbelief a tad bit.
Uh oh... I may have found a hole in the Glove of Storing idea. These last two lines in the item write-up:
"A glove of storing uses up the wearer’s entire hands slot. The wearer may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot."
Since a single glove can only store a single item at any given time, how are you reloading both crossbows (or pistols... or whatevers)? In order to store the second crossbow in the glove, you would first have to extract the first crossbow from the glove. Now that hand is occupied by a crossbow, so you can't very well (or very easily) place the other crossbow in the glove while the hand is occupied, and switching hands might be tricky.
Now, if your GM ignores this specific limitation on the magic item, allowing you to have two Gloves of Storing, then the idea is completely feasible, if pushing the suspension of disbelief a tad bit.
Well, one of my characters is a TWF hand crossbow Rogue (Sniper). My solution was Weapon Cords and Quickdraw, juggling the weapons (free to drop, quickdraw makes drawing free, weapon cords keep them from going anywhere), and it worked alright. It was by far one of the most feat-starved builds I've ever done, though.
Continually qualifying for SA was a pain, though I did manage a particularly effective solution, eventually...
Personally, as a GM, I would not allow Trifler to qualify you for Arcane Strike. You do not actually have the ability to actually cast arcane spells. Prestidigitation becomes a "spell-like ability", usable thrice daily. I may be splitting hairs here, but you're trying to cheese the system.
Also, I'm not sure how you're pulling off dual wielding ANY kind of crossbow, but it sounds like more rule-bending cheese.
100% Legal. It strikes some people as "cheesy" at first, but once you get down to it, it doesn't actually let you do anything that powerful.
He's dual-wielding Hand Crossbows, which are in the CRB and explicitly count as light weapons for dual wielding. You probably never saw them because there was literally no reason to use one, let alone two, until now. Reloading them would probably require Bolt Ace 11 + Rapid Reload to reduce the reload time to "not an action".
Yes, 100% legal, and still 100% cheesy abuse (IMHO). Even worse going the trait route to qualify for scaling arcane damage. Our games allow for a lot of, hmmm... flexibility in regard to rules, but I'm pretty sure everyone at my table would agree with my opinion on this
Arcane Strike does a small amount of damage, doesn't lead into anything that powerful (that I know of), and most classes have better things to do with their Swift Action.
I think that switching witch hands you hold things with is a free action but the gloves of storing is an issue.
The sohei would be a good build overall. I may well use it when I make the lower level builds. At 20 you lose too many other things. (weapon spec, rage, favored enemy) Also the feats may be an issue as well. The ones from ranger are made up for in flurry but the 4 levels of fighter can not be replicated with monk.
