Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Hi everybody, I only started playing PFS literally 5 days ago, but I have some questions regarding
the beloved pregenerated characters.
I played quite a number of them already, and this allowed me bring my very first pathfinder character to level 2 ( played now only once at level 1 and once at level 2) with a a chronicle sheet to be applied at at level 4.
The ability to play in an event slot where no level 1 scenarios are offered, seems to be the greatest advantage of the iconics (allowing new players to play is very important too, but frankly not relevant to me, and I would guess rather more useful at level 1, a level 7 group will quite likely confuse most new players), but allowing a group to exchange an existing suitable character for an iconic to fill a role the group just can´t cover seems to be very welcome. Of course with a sufficiently large pool of players, and/or characters the need for pre-generated characters should disappear.
After searching a bit on these boards, the common argument seems to be, that aside from providing easy to play choices for new players, is that players should want to play their own characters. This of course, should drive sales of pathfinder products, since quite a lot of the interesting/powerful options are scattered among a number of books.
My slight problems with this theory is, that most players would always prefer to play their own characters and many of those have no problem with picking up plenty of product (and often even pay for the corresponding herolab package).
The other kind of player, who maybe just wants to have a good time, spend some time with their friends and RP, doesn’t really care all that much about their stats, and those players often can’t be persuaded read anything that isn’t particularly vital to their enjoyment of the game.
There is nothing wrong with that, and I think we just need to accept them as they are. Getting them to play with us, and have a good time while doing so, should be its own reward.
To give credit, I never played with a GM that didn’t let me prepare other spells (since I had all my source material with me on a tablet) with spellcasters that prepare their spells every day (Kyra), and I think it is quite reasonable to allow this. After all the other 3-6 players should not feel that the player with a pre-generated character is a burden on the group.
I think, that the same should be true for spontaneous spellcasters, since this would allow a player use the style of play they prefer.
Not allowing the equipment of the pregenerated character to be sold, I can kinda understand, players could, and quite likely would spend the money on consumable items (of course the guide allows the items to be sold to raise the dead or to clear conditions), but it would be nice to have a little money to spend. As it is you have to ask the other players to spend their hard earned cash to, eg. buy poor Kyra a shield, or a couple of cheap consumable items (alchemists fire, holy water) maybe a reach weapon, or a cheap cold iron weapon. Of course the flipside is, that many of the pregens have wands, and their wands of CLW will quite likely be the first to be expended.
I don’t think it would need much to make them a bit better/more customizable. In some cases you could quite easily change a weapon, a shield, a feat or two, maybe a domain and the character will feel quite differently. Even the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game does this, so why not? (Of course a little bit more work, but if thats the problem just make a product with PFS legal characters of a variety of classes and levels, paizo has already plenty of artwork for characters, I bought the NPC Guide, and other Golaron specific one).
Now to the question part (sorry for the rant):
Legal Pathfinder Society Characters
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level,
if you do not have a character in the correct level range,
you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character,
available on paizo.com or the 1st- and 7th-level iconic
characters on pages 275–297 of the Pathfinder RPG NPC
Codex. You must apply the credit to your character
as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated
character, you may apply credit from the pregenerated
character to one of your 1st-level characters, with
the gp gained reduced to 1,398 gp (or 699 gp for slow
advancement track characters). If you play a non-1st-
level pregenerated character, you may apply the credit
to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the
pregenerated character played. Equipment listed on the
pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear
conditions, such as death, during the play of the module
and any remaining gold does not carry over at the end of
the module.
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder
Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the
entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for
playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you
had played a pregenerated character. In this case, GMs
running the Adventure Path are not bound to the rules
of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign (such
as 20 point buy, unavailability of hero points, etc...) when
running the campaign or the sanctioned portion of the
adventure. Pathfinder Society characters and characters
from an ongoing Adventure Path campaign may not play
in the same adventure.
Is this correct, from my meager collection of chronicle sheets, the amount seems to be wrong (or rather right for Tier 3-4), and a forum search, and the way it was explained to me by the GMs, seemed to indicate, that the amount is reduced to 500 for normal advancement. (Not trying to get extra money here). It seems to be a bit weird, that a character level 2 character that had 3 chronicle sheets applied to him (never had to use consumable items) would end up with 4194 GP at level 2. If you just played the adventures with other level 1 characters, you would end up with less than 50 % of that amount. This seems a bit backwards.
Of course I could be missing something here.Another question when it comes, to applying a chronicle from a pregen, is it assumed when it comes to character knowledge, that the character the chronicle is applied to has played that scenario.
Example, I play a scenario with Lem the iconic bard, and in that adventure I fight a monster - lets be specific and say I fight plenty of Gearsmen - and in that adventure, through personal experience I learn, that a +1 short sword is quite useless against them. Of course the fighter with his greatsword, and the magus with the adamantine longword didn’t have the same problem.
Now the adventure is completed with complete success, and the chronicle is applied to a level 1 character, let’s call him Jon. That character now gains the XP, access to the specific loot and maybe the boon “Robotslayer”. Now Jon plays the next adventure, and the very first enemy is another Gearsmen, has the character a memory of the last encounter, would it be metagaming to use the adamantite durable arrows he just bought? After all the effect of his special material should be known to him (ignore DR, hardness).
Of course I am aware that this is a humongous jar of bees, after all, what would stop a player arguing (yeah in the last game a player rolled, like a +40 knowledge and told us all the weaknesses, and of course my character mentioned it in his diary….) so I would understand, if this is left up to the individual GMs.
Ok last easy question:
If my PC or pregenerated character dies permanently, what happens?
Player characters and pregenerated characters who do not return to the realm of the living receive 0 XP, 0 PP, 0 gold, and no items or boons. This is marked on their Chronicle sheet along with a note that the character is permanently dead. If a player was planning to hold the Chronicle from a pregenerated character and apply it to a lower level PC once the PC reached the level of the pregenerated character, they must either apply the Chronicle sheet immediately and report the PC as dead or assign the Chronicle sheet to a new level 1 PC (ie a new PC number) and report that character as dead.
So do I understand this correctly? You if you play a pregenerated character, you do not have to declare to which character you have to apply the chronicle to, until you actually get it ? So if you manage to kill the pregenerated character and they can’t sell your equipment to get you raised (level 1 and 4 pregen), you just “create” a new character to die? I assume, this is just to have a digital record, that you played the scenario.
Disclaimer: I realllly liked my first PFS experience, and feel like a thief (nice loot^^) helping my party to beat Bonekeep 3 with a pregen, I just wanted to give the opinion of an experienced gamers first experience with PFS. Catering to people like me, dragging them kicking and screaming out of their dark RPG cellars into the radiant sunshine, and then dragging them further into the PFS location, seems like an excellent idea to socialise like minded people. (It might even help to move more product, I love to use tools like d20pfsrd to find options.. and PFS got me to buy quite a number of pdf I was missing - carrying all those hardcovers would have been unfeasible).
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you're quoting the rules for Pathfinder Modules and Pathfinder Adventure Paths, not PFS scenarios. Pathfinder Modules and Pathfinder Adventure Paths are worth 3xp (an entire level) not the 1XP you got for a PFS scenario. This is also the reason the gold amount is 3 time what you were getting for a scenario.
Edit: I was going to answer this more thoroughly, but I had to run I'll try to come back later
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As I understand it, the Iconics are built the way they are because each has their own likes, dislikes, behaviors, and story to tell. They're "Iconic".
Giving Kyra a longspear instead of her scimitar, or switching out Lini's small cat with a velociraptor, would go against their nature.
Think of them as you would sitting down with any other character. If you played with a Ranger with a Badger, would you insist they switch it out for a wolf? If not, then why ask Harsk to do the same?
Although, I can see it plausible that, during a multi-day scenario, the party convinced Kyra to pick different spells. But she starts with the ones on her sheet.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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you're quoting the rules for Pathfinder Modules and Pathfinder Adventure Paths, not PFS scenarios. Pathfinder Modules and Pathfinder Adventure Paths are worth 3xp (an entire level) not the 1XP you got for a PFS scenario. This is also the reason the gold amount is 3 time what you were getting for a scenario.
Edit: I was going to answer this more thoroughly, but I had to run I'll try to come back later
Thank you, I must have read it once and then skipped the chapter (note to self, do a pdf search before you complain).
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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As I understand it, the Iconics are built the way they are because each has their own likes, dislikes, behaviors, and story to tell. They're "Iconic".
Giving Kyra a longspear instead of her scimitar, or switching out Lini's small cat with a velociraptor, would go against their nature.
Think of them as you would sitting down with any other character. If you played with a Ranger with a Badger, would you insist they switch it out for a wolf? If not, then why ask Harsk to do the same?
Although, I can see it plausible that, during a multi-day scenario, the party convinced Kyra to pick different spells. But she starts with the ones on her sheet.
I understand where you are coming from, but I can’t agree completely with you. The character background should inform roleplaying, Lem has very negative experiences with slavery, Seelah quite likely would be kinder to children trying to steal from her (been there, done that^^) and have a real problem with gnoll slavers.
Likewise asking them not to use/carry the favored weapon of their deity is a big ask, but handing Kyra a loaded crossbow and some holy arrows and saying “ Please take this weapon, it will help us to vanquish evil quicker, and that could save the live of innocents”. I don’t think, that someone like Kyra would let her own preferences endanger the lives of
innocents. Of course it depends on what sources you consider canon, if you add to comics to that list, Kyra seems to be a bit of a zealot, when it comes to defeating evil (the type who would charge into an unclear situation). Of course her relationship Merisiel is awesome on so many levels (a bit of buddy comedy and a fresh relationship).
Likewise, the spells are limited to those in the since this is the book most people on the table are assumed to have access to. In Inner Sea Gods page 240 she seems pretty confident with casting shield of the dawnflower, my point is, that there are plenty of fitting spells out there.
I assume, that Kyra doesn’t use a shield, since the combination with spellcasting/holy symbol are a bit complicated, and thats not useful for newer players, but even Merisiel learns to use a buckler by level 7.
Regarding animal companions, changing them might be a kindness, if the adventure will take place underwater, or in similarly hostile environments, storing them might be preferable. Not that is something I would actually want to do most of the time, but it seems a bit easier to argue, than trying to convince Harsk to exchange his beloved tea for beer.
On the same note, if the adventure happens to take place in Absalon or another temperate region, and Kyra has time to prepare spells before the adventure begins (let us say that you were woken up in the dead of night, and told about the mission on the next day^^) it would be reasonable for her to exchange her level domain spell (endure elements) for cure light wounds (unless she plans to cast it on Seoni to keep her from hypothermia).
The design of the iconics is very good and I think we have WAR to thank for it, our iconic ranger isn’t an elf with a bow, but a dwarf who doesn’t drink beer, talk about breaking the mold. Our iconic barbarian is a woman with a big big sword, so we can’t make the joke about compensating for something. Seelah is black, a woman and not an ass, so much new ground for paladins ^^. The iconic swashbuckler and gunslinger (and the duellist ), basicly the classes you would use to a character like the 3 musketeers, are all female and fully clothed.
The iconics - backstory and art - are good and a wonderful tool to show new players the classes, or provide a quick example of a character. Some of them are just very unfortunate, since their choices are sometimes quite, well Harsk. Rangers and favoured enemy, well the mechanic is what it is.
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If the PCs were awoken in the middle of the night (by you-know-who), I'd allow Kyra to prepare different spells that dawn, since that's when she prays.
But if the adventure begins immediately after the briefing, before dawn comes, the list on her sheet is what she'll have to use, since she prepared it the day before.
Same logic as asking Harsk to drop his badger. Those are the spells Kyra prepares on a regular basis. Players should honor her choices.
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So do I understand this correctly? You if you play a pregenerated character, you do not have to declare to which character you have to apply the chronicle to, until you actually get it ? So if you manage to kill the pregenerated character and they can’t sell your equipment to get you raised (level 1 and 4 pregen), you just “create” a new character to die? I assume, this is just to have a digital record, that you played the scenario.
Since nobody responded to this part, yes, you can just apply the pregen death to a new character, rather than forcing you to have a character death for the character you were going to apply the credit to if you'd lived. And the new, already dead, character should be named Doorknob McDeadGuy. That post from Mike Brock confirms that it's legal, since he's the top PFS guy at Paizo, so his word is law in PFS.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Its not the badger. He has an axe on his back and a crossbow in his hands. Axes have a core only viable combat style. Crossbows do not.
Since favored enemy got a major boost in the APG, I suspect, that favored enemy: giants is not very appealing (without access to the APG).
I just wait for the slayer pregen, studied target mechanic seems just plain better (and not quite as easy to break).So do I understand this correctly? You if you play a pregenerated character, you do not have to declare to which character you have to apply the chronicle to, until you actually get it ? So if you manage to kill the pregenerated character and they can’t sell your equipment to get you raised (level 1 and 4 pregen), you just “create” a new character to die? I assume, this is just to have a digital record, that you played the scenario.Since nobody responded to this part, yes, you can just apply the pregen death to a new character, rather than forcing you to have a character death for the character you were going to apply the credit to if you'd lived. And the new, already dead, character should be named Doorknob McDeadGuy. That post from Mike Brock confirms that it's legal, since he's the top PFS guy at Paizo, so his word is law in PFS.
Thank you, this way sacrificing your pregen is still a bummer, but it won't be totally devastating.