Slayer ACG and Ranger Combat Style

[masterdb]

Several questions on this subject.

1. Say at level 4 I use a Slayer Talent to take Ranger Combat Style Two Weapon Fighting. Do you have to take the Ranger Combat Style at 6th and 10th levels? Or can you take them whenever, just not before those levels?

2. Can I take it more than 3 times? Or is 3 the max?

3. If I am level 10 Slayer and took Ranger Combat Style 3 times then took 2 levels of Ranger, are ALL the Combat Style feats available to chose from?

Let the discussion begin!

[Harrowed Wizard]

1) No you don't have to take them at 6 & 10, because it says you can take them at those levels, not that you have to. You can take that Slayer Talent after levels 6 & 10, but when you take the talent the second time you still only qualify for the level 6 Ranger feats.

2) Three is the max. Normally you cannot take a talent more than once, unless otherwise specified in the Talent. The Ranger Combat Style Talent specifically calls out when and how many more times you can take the Talent

3)The Combat Style you get from Ranger and the Combat Style you get from Slayer do not stack, as it does not specifically call it out in Slayer "Ranger Combat Style Talent".

ACG pg. 8 wrote:

While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).

Now, I'll be honest I don't know if a Ranger Combat Style would count as a "one-time" choice for the Slayer as it is not required, unless they pick up the Talent. I would say it is a "one-time" choice for the Ranger. Meaning that ultimately it would not make any sense for a Slayer/Ranger to take the "Ranger Combat Style Talent" since the abilities overlap, instead of stack.

[Rhatahema]

1. I think the wording on this talent would be clearer as "At 6th level or later, a slayer can select this talent a second time.." and "at 10th level or later, a slayer can select this talent a third time..."

3. What qualifies as a "redundant ability" is kind of left up to interpretation. Allowing you to multiclass with your parent class was a decision made post-playtest, and I think the intent is that you handle it on a case-by-case basis. I would rule that your ranger would have to select the same combat style he selected as a slayer talent, but that he gains an additional feat from the list offered by that combat style (at the appropriate levels).

[Trekkie90909]

You can take a feat from the ranger combat 2 weapon style list any time you gain a slayer talent. At slayer levels 6 and 10 this list expands. You may select this talent once before slayer level 6, up to twice after 6, or up to three times after 10.

Levels in Slayer do not count as levels in Ranger; therefore you would have to wait for the appropriate Ranger level to unlock the feats on the Ranger list.

[masterdb]

I see the points pretty clearly in the first two questions. The only thing that I question more is the third.

Through the Slayer I select Ranger Combat Style (Ex)

Second level Ranger is a Combat Style Feat (Ex)

Since the Two Weapon Combat Style is selected for both, I do not see why the list is restricted when it's clearly the same Style with the selection of feats opened up.

It's almost like saying "Your BAB does not stack because it's a different class"

It's the same Combat Style with the selection of Feats ADDED to the style.

Same style should mean same open list to chose from.

[Chess Pwn]

Thing is since it's different classes the two styles are different. The ranger style slayer talent lets you pick a list to choose from and then adds to that list. It never modified the style, just the list the slayer could pick from. So the rangers list is the same as if he had no levels of slayer.

maybe this will help.
Think of wizards and sorcerers. Both cast arcane spells from the exact same list. If my wizard get's 3rd level spells does that mean my sorcerer should get them too? I feel this is a similar enough example of when talking about parent classes and hybrid classes. How would this work if they were a wizard and sorcerer.

Also BAB is all a +# bonues. A lv9 figher doesn't have a BAB of 9. He has a BAB of 0 + 9. So since all BAB increases are untyped + bonuses from different sources they stack. :D

[Harrowed Wizard]

Rhatahema wrote:

3. What qualifies as a "redundant ability" is kind of left up to interpretation. Allowing you to multiclass with your parent class was a decision made post-playtest, and I think the intent is that you handle it on a case-by-case basis. I would rule that your ranger would have to select the same combat style he selected as a slayer talent, but that he gains an additional feat from the list offered by that combat style (at the appropriate levels).

I might be inclined to rule similarly at a home table. Since I'm already in the camp that feels Martials do sometimes need a little leg up to be as flexible as a full caster. Definetly same combat style, just like with bloodlines for a possible Bloodrager/Sorcerer or Arcanist/Sorcerer (or school with Arcanist/Wizard)

masterdb wrote:

Since the Two Weapon Combat Style is selected for both, I do not see why the list is restricted when it's clearly the same Style with the selection of feats opened up.

This shouldn't work simply because than you could conceivably go Slayer 2/Ranger 2 and have access to the Level 6 feat list, get 4 more levels of either class so Slayer 6/Ranger 2 or Slayer 2/Ranger 6 and have access to the level 10 feats 2 levels early as well.

I'm sure your intent was when the total Ranger + Slayer level is 6 or 10 those feats would open up, but I feel that muddies the rules up even more for a case-by-case issue