At a random point during the day. earliest I saw was 10AMish.Do they drop these things at midnight or what?
Where do you live? Longitudinally.
It is currently 7:33PM for me. I would expect the PDF to come up about 16-30 hours from right now.
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Honestly when I hear the title "Occult Mysteries" I think of stuff like Ouija Boards, Mentalists, Fortune Teller shops, and those "psychics" that will speak to the spirits of your loved ones. That seems to be the general feel for the book that I'm getting.
The book will have 1 new class: con artist. The rest of the book is a list of prices for "services" ranging from bending spoons to speaking with the dead.
I would love to see a telepath of some sort.
I am hoping for a telepath as well, especially if it gets some kind of synergy with a creature that already has telepathy or a limited version like the Lashunta.
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It's 0640 here and I'm awake. I want my beta test because entitlement!
(hype train goes choo choo)
+1
I actually like Psionics, I was GM for lengthy Darksun and Eberron campaigns, where psionics is an essential part of the campaign milieu.
You proved my point, if people don't think 3.5 psionics is broken, how can it be rigorously playtested.
Few examples:
Touchsight: pretty much radar, automatically detects everything.
Is the same thing with a shorter range, but longer duration. Psionics often has similar but lesser effects to spells, with more convoluted language. In this case "Grants Blindsight 60 feet".
Vigor: A 9th level Psionicist can spend 9 power points and receives 45 hit pointsWhich is basically just Greater False Life with a higher cost
And there is the Psicrystal (psion familiar) coupled with the Share Pain ability making a psion one of the best tank builds (combined with a few other builds) you have ever seen.[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shield-other]Which is identical to Shield Other.[url]
Nice quick analysis although not precise or accurate enough to recognise the broken elements of d&d 3.5 psionics.
A 9th level psionicist has 120 power points (with +4 stat boosting item and two low level cognizance crystals). 4 augmented vigors =180 hit points, 36 power point cost.
A 9th level level wizard has 4 4th level spells. Uses all his 4th level slots to cast greater false life getting 80 hit points. Costing him a huge loss in power for those extra hit points.
while the psion is still bristling with power.
Shield other functions quite different to share pain especially in gameplay. While the fighters and barbarians are bleeding on the ground the psion has a smile on his face as his psicrystal is taking all the damage.
As a gm you want all the characters to feel like they are important. Not one character dominating gameplay because his character uses mechanics and rules that are grossly overpowered.
Touchsight is a low level power allowing a psion to use it all of the time. No creature can hide from the psion through traditional means or invisibilty.
Psionics has no need for a verbal component and can be used easily without detection.
I like psionics but the game mechanics need to be heavily playtested and will hopefully have a unique feel although not at the cost of dismantling people's campaigns.
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Here we go again. Take it to one of the debate threads, please.
EDIT: Here. Here's one. Go debate if power point psionics is broken over there.
Design Manager
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So, is this seriously supposed to come out today? Our gaming group took a little break from Pathfinder after GenCon and we're just now getting back into playing on a regular basis. Would love to play psionics.
Just so it's clear, it isn't so much psionics as it is "Victorian and/or Kingsian (Stephen Kingsian, that is) occultism with mentalism and psychic phenomenon as its core".
Nice quick analysis although not precise or accurate enough to recognise the broken elements of d&d 3.5 psionics.
I won't comment on 3.5 Psionics since I don't know them. But Pathfinder Psionics are balanced.
A 9th level psionicist has 120 power points (with +4 stat boosting item and two low level cognizance crystals). 4 augmented vigors =180 hit points, 36 power point cost.
"Using this power again when an earlier manifestation has not expired merely replaces the older temporary hit points (if any remain) with the newer ones."
A 9th level level wizard has 4 4th level spells. Uses all his 4th level slots to cast greater false life getting 80 hit points. Costing him a huge loss in power for those extra hit points.
That's about the same cost, actually. Think of a Psion as more of a Spontaneous caster. A Sorcerer would get 4 4ths (base), that's 1/4 of his spell slots. Likewise, that's roughly a quarter of the Psion's PP. The comparison comes out in the Sorcerer's favor when you factor in high Cha.
Shield other functions quite different to share pain especially in gameplay. While the fighters and barbarians are bleeding on the ground the psion has a smile on his face as his psicrystal is taking all the damage.
Um...not it doesn't. They work exactly the same way (except Shield Other grants a +1 AC and saves in addition). You designate a target, that target shares damage with you halvesies. It's as simple as that. A Cleric with a familiar can do the same thing.
As a gm you want all the characters to feel like they are important. Not one character dominating gameplay because his character uses mechanics and rules that are grossly overpowered.
Touchsight is a low level power allowing a psion to use it all of the time. No creature can hide from the psion through traditional means or invisibilty.
For a few minutes a day. Echolocation will last for hours (it has a duration 10x as long), and has the same effect.
Psionics has no need for a verbal component and can be used easily without detection.
One of the few edges Psions have over casters, yes.
I like psionics but the game mechanics need to be heavily playtested and will hopefully have a unique feel although not at the cost of dismantling people's campaigns.
They only dismantle campaigns when people (like you) have a fundamental misunderstanding of how powers work and rules interact, usually due to not reading them all the way through.
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Design Manager
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So, is this seriously supposed to come out today? Our gaming group took a little break from Pathfinder after GenCon and we're just now getting back into playing on a regular basis. Would love to play psionics.Just so it's clear, it isn't so much psionics as it is "Victorian and/or Kingsian (Stephen Kingsian, that is) occultism with mentalism and psychic phenomenon as its core".
...Except the Kineticist apparently, who is very much a superhero/anime/action figure kind of class. In a good way.
...Except the Kineticist apparently, who is very much a superhero/anime/action figure kind of class. In a good way.So, is this seriously supposed to come out today? Our gaming group took a little break from Pathfinder after GenCon and we're just now getting back into playing on a regular basis. Would love to play psionics.Just so it's clear, it isn't so much psionics as it is "Victorian and/or Kingsian (Stephen Kingsian, that is) occultism with mentalism and psychic phenomenon as its core".
Huh. When I finished reading the Kineticist, my thought was "hey look, the 3.5e warlock with more versatile fluff, turned up to 11!"
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Design Manager
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Huh. When I finished reading the Kineticist, my thought was "hey look, the 3.5e warlock with more versatile fluff, turned up to 11!"...Except the Kineticist apparently, who is very much a superhero/anime/action figure kind of class. In a good way.So, is this seriously supposed to come out today? Our gaming group took a little break from Pathfinder after GenCon and we're just now getting back into playing on a regular basis. Would love to play psionics.Just so it's clear, it isn't so much psionics as it is "Victorian and/or Kingsian (Stephen Kingsian, that is) occultism with mentalism and psychic phenomenon as its core".
I meant that it veers from the pseudo-Victorian/Lovecraftian/Kingsian vibe of the other classes and has a different feel to it. It honestly feels like it belongs to a completely different genre than the other classes.
I meant that it veers from the pseudo-Victorian/Lovecraftian/Kingsian vibe of the other classes and has a different feel to it. It honestly feels like it belongs to a completely different genre than the other classes.
I disagree that it veers from the Kingsian vibes. While yes, they do get some great abilities inspired by Avatar, they are still very much the class to make Carrie or the girl from Firestarter.
I meant that it veers from the pseudo-Victorian/Lovecraftian/Kingsian vibe of the other classes and has a different feel to it. It honestly feels like it belongs to a completely different genre than the other classes.
Mmmm. I guess. I don't go for the whole horror genre in general, but I figured it's like Carrie or some such. Haven't there been a whole bunch of gothic and King type movies where when child/woman get angry, objects start flying around, fire erupts out of nowhere and the like?
So far I'm finding the Psychic the head-scratcher. I'm not quite done reading it, but it doesn't say "psychic" to me in any way so far. It's coming off as "sorcerer, only now we call bloodlines 'disciplines'".
Overall I've liked the classes so far. I'm very pleased with the distinct lack of overlap with psionics. These are likely just more stuff I'll allow at my table.
I meant that it veers from the pseudo-Victorian/Lovecraftian/Kingsian vibe of the other classes and has a different feel to it. It honestly feels like it belongs to a completely different genre than the other classes.Mmmm. I guess. I don't go for the whole horror genre in general, but I figured it's like Carrie or some such. Haven't there been a whole bunch of gothic and King type movies where when child/woman get angry, objects start flying around, fire erupts out of nowhere and the like?
So far I'm finding the Psychic the head-scratcher. I'm not quite done reading it, but it doesn't say "psychic" to me in any way so far. It's coming off as "sorcerer, only now we call bloodlines 'disciplines'".
Overall I've liked the classes so far. I'm very pleased with the distinct lack of overlap with psionics. These are likely just more stuff I'll allow at my table.
I think the main thing about the psychic is the fact that psychic magic works differently (if you haven't read that bit). Psychic magic having slightly different rules is enough to make a dedicated caster feel unique.
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I meant that it veers from the pseudo-Victorian/Lovecraftian/Kingsian vibe of the other classes and has a different feel to it. It honestly feels like it belongs to a completely different genre than the other classes.I disagree that it veers from the Kingsian vibes. While yes, they do get some great abilities inspired by Avatar, they are still very much the class to make Carrie or the girl from Firestarter.
I don't really agree that it's anything even remotely like Carrie, beyond the fact that it can start fires. Carrie was a telekinetic whose powers included pyrokinesis but expanded substantially beyond that. It may contain a build that fits Charlie from Firestarter, though even then it's much more Human Torch than pyrokinetic savant.
It's a good class, it just doesn't give me the same vibe as the other classes in the playtest.
Now that its here, and plainly NOT psionics, isn't it time to declare this thread done?
Weirdly, there's several spells and powers that are almost direct ports of psionic powers, both in name and mechanics, and undercasting is basically just slot based augmentation in reverse, so there's actually a lot more "psionics" in here than I expected based on what had been said about the release.
That being said, there's certainly a lot of cool stuff here and I'm enjoying playing with it, but I had hoped for the lines between psionics and the new psychic magic to be a little more defined. It's going to be weird at my table when I have to remember which player is undercasting mind thrust or id insinuation and which player is augmenting it. Or whether a character is using the Wild Talent he got from Ultimate Psionics or the one he learned from his levels of kineticist. So on and so forth.
Carrie was a telekinetic
I can't tell you how tickled I am to find out that I got that much right. Honestly, it was a stab in the dark! Sibyl... no... Cujo... no... um... Christine?
I really don't do the horror thing, so I plead ignorance.
I think the main thing about the psychic is the fact that psychic magic works differently (if you haven't read that bit). Psychic magic having slightly different rules is enough to make a dedicated caster feel unique.
I look forward to getting to that bit then. I'm a big proponent of different is better. I've been underwhelmed by ACG for instance since it's mostly a mashup of existing stuff. I love different mechanics as systems to master, which is part of why I've always liked psionics, Incarnum (now Akasha), and martial maneuvers. I also always wanted to try the stuff in Tome of Magic (and have bought the modern Pact magic stuff too). So hey, if this turns out to be more different than I've read so far, bonus!
Now that its here, and plainly NOT psionics, isn't it time to declare this thread done?
Meh. While there's still people interested in discussing the shape, feel, and style of the product then I'd have to say "no".
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Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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Erik Mona, Lisa Stevens are great editors with significant experience. They edited the superbly designed and produced Advanced Player's Guide. They need to be hands on again with their products.
I think you'll probably be happy to learn, then, that I am helping to write this book, and have been poking my nose into it at the slightest provocation. I'm also going to be helping to proofread the book as well, so if you think my involvement is magical fairy dust, you should be pretty pleased with this book.
We've also implemented some tighter controls editorially to prevent some of the problems that crept into the Advanced Class Guide. I apologize that that product fell short of your expectations, and I will do everything within my power to make sure that Occult Adventures is one of the best books Paizo has ever published.
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Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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Wayne Reynold's (and the designers original concept) original iconics, were iconic.The Indian monk, The female African paladin, the female Middle Eastern Cleric, his dynamic artistic style and variety of different types of characters was refreshing.
The new iconics are mass produced, non-progressive and uninteresting unlike their forebears. Far from being iconic.
I have to say I really don't agree here at all. I do think some of the class concepts in the ACG, for example, are by definition "less iconic" than, say, a wizard, but we've continued to match interesting concepts with a variety of ethnicities and Pathfinder races, and I don't think that commitment has lessened as the line has gone on. Not at all.
I'm also not sure how having a trangendered iconic can be seen as "not progressive," but perhaps that's a discussion for a different day, and a different thread.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, we've already got male and female iconics of every core race in the game. We've already got male and female iconics of most major real world ethnicities. So when we sat down to decide what the iconics in this book would look like, we really pushed things around, and I think you'll find that at least a couple of them are very far from what you might expect.
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ALL THAT BEING SAID, we've already got male and female iconics of every core race in the game. We've already got male and female iconics of most major real world ethnicities. So when we sat down to decide what the iconics in this book would look like, we really pushed things around, and I think you'll find that at least a couple of them are very far from what you might expect.
Does that mean non-core race iconics? Or non-real world ethnicities?
Lashunta psychic!!!
:D
(Which actually reminds me- I can now get closer to creating Golarion-esque versions of Moondragon and Mantis from Guardians of the Galaxy with the classes in the playtest. Moondragon a psychic, and while Mantis was going to be something like a druid/monk, I may go with a kineticist/monk with a Wood Element/Fibrokinetic variant. :D )
EDIT: Thinking about this on the ride home. If we were to get non-core iconics for this, my choices would be:
Samsaran Medium
Lashunta Psychic
Fetchling Mesmerist (Only the Shadow knows!)
Ratfolk Occultist (always picking up little trinkets and things he finds)
Suli Kineticist
Dhampir Spiritualist
I would have loved a female lashunta kineticist iconic but I would be fine with a female lashunta psychic iconic. I would also love to see a female catfolk iconic(really wish it was the swashbuckler) as well. Man a male dhampir slayer iconic would have been awesome.
Wayne Reynold's (and the designers original concept) original iconics, were iconic.The Indian monk, The female African paladin, the female Middle Eastern Cleric, his dynamic artistic style and variety of different types of characters was refreshing.
The new iconics are mass produced, non-progressive and uninteresting unlike their forebears. Far from being iconic.
I have to say I really don't agree here at all. I do think some of the class concepts in the ACG, for example, are by definition "less iconic" than, say, a wizard, but we've continued to match interesting concepts with a variety of ethnicities and Pathfinder races, and I don't think that commitment has lessened as the line has gone on. Not at all.
I'm also not sure how having a trangendered iconic can be seen as "not progressive," but perhaps that's a discussion for a different day, and a different thread.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, we've already got male and female iconics of every core race in the game. We've already got male and female iconics of most major real world ethnicities. So when we sat down to decide what the iconics in this book would look like, we really pushed things around, and I think you'll find that at least a couple of them are very far from what you might expect.
I have to agree here. While I wasn't impressed at all by the ACG rule set (and I won't even start on the editing/QA), the iconics are far and away my favorite thing to come out of the whole ACG development cycle. They have excellent backstories and some of the best character art I've seen yet in a Paizo publication. Most importantly, they exemplify the classes they represent. I hope the occult iconics can meet the new standard.
Erik Mona, Lisa Stevens are great editors with significant experience. They edited the superbly designed and produced Advanced Player's Guide. They need to be hands on again with their products.I think you'll probably be happy to learn, then, that I am helping to write this book, and have been poking my nose into it at the slightest provocation. I'm also going to be helping to proofread the book as well, so if you think my involvement is magical fairy dust, you should be pretty pleased with this book.
We've also implemented some tighter controls editorially to prevent some of the problems that crept into the Advanced Class Guide. I apologize that that product fell short of your expectations, and I will do everything within my power to make sure that Occult Adventures is one of the best books Paizo has ever published.
Very much magical fairy dust.
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: you could navigate through a whole world with ease, rich with roleplaying hooks. You could easily explain greyhawk to new players while deepening the lore for veteran players.
Fiendish Codex I: The lore and detail made demons seem real, it really helped GM's make demons three dimensional villains.
Advanced Player's Guide: The most thoughtful and well-designed expansion book of a core ruleset. Power-gamed options were replaced with concepts that ignited the imagination of players of Pathfinder. Yes, it is that good.
Wayne Reynold's (and the designers original concept) original iconics, were iconic.The Indian monk, The female African paladin, the female Middle Eastern Cleric, his dynamic artistic style and variety of different types of characters was refreshing.
The new iconics are mass produced, non-progressive and uninteresting unlike their forebears. Far from being iconic.
I have to say I really don't agree here at all. I do think some of the class concepts in the ACG, for example, are by definition "less iconic" than, say, a wizard, but we've continued to match interesting concepts with a variety of ethnicities and Pathfinder races, and I don't think that commitment has lessened as the line has gone on. Not at all.
I'm also not sure how having a trangendered iconic can be seen as "not progressive," but perhaps that's a discussion for a different day, and a different thread.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, we've already got male and female iconics of every core race in the game. We've already got male and female iconics of most major real world ethnicities. So when we sat down to decide what the iconics in this book would look like, we really pushed things around, and I think you'll find that at least a couple of them are very far from what you might expect.
Looking back what I wrote, I believe my criticisms are overly harsh.
I sincerely apologize.
My critical thinking is meant to evoke discussion and I can see how what I said can easily be interpreted as offensive. Its not my intent.
I should of made comparisons between the iconics in a less provocative way.
Wizards and Sorcerors can run out of spell slots and still cast cantrips all day long. So, I guess they can not run out, ever.
It's going to be a big psychic surprise!
Hmm. Well, my speculations about non-core iconics is probably off, but since you mentioned covering most RW ethnicities, I suspect that means jumping off into some more fantastic regions for your iconics. Which leaves things like the Darklands (suitably appropriate, maybe dwarves or half-orcs), Numeria, Hermea, Jalmeray, Nex and Geb (among other regions) from which to draw on for iconics- all of which would be pretty suitable, actually, for the themes encountered in the playtest thus far. :D
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Design Manager
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Add me to the list of people who'd like to see an iconic modeled more after native American looks and cultures. Being native Alaskan myself, I immediately started picturing the Occultist's relics as totems and art done in Tlingit and Haida stylings.
It's going to be a big psychic surprise!
Sarusan Iconic Confirmed?
I highly disagree, iconics by definition should not be cast from "freak" races but be kept to core ones. Dhampir especially are problematic if used as pregens.
Why? And "by definition" definitely not.
Iconic simply means they're something "widely known and acknowledged".
"Dhampir vampire slayer" is as iconic as "Human Wizard" (moreso, actually. Pretty sure more people know Blade than Ezren). The race being less common has nothing to do with it.
It's going to be a big psychic surprise!
Prediction, for fun, is that one of them is a new playable incorporeal spirit race.
But seriously, Erik, if I can ask, is this (psychic magic) intended to slot into that-magic-common-in-Vudra or is that place being left as psionics as has been written to date?
I can see it both ways, but personally in-setting it feels most right to me that Vudra remains a lightly documented place where psionics are common and psychic magic is practiced over most of Avistan, perhaps most commonly (yet secretly) in Ustalov. In terms of money-making product sales I doubt it'll work out that way. So... curious.
So far I'm really pleased how this has basically nothing to do with psionics at all. Not a competitor, not equivalent, just another additional magic book.