Magus vs. Revised Vanguard? (Or is the Vanguard useless by comparison?)


Advice

Dark Archive

For reference, the revised Vanguard class(which is different then the old/non-upated one founds on the SRD) can be found here: http://paizo.com/products/btpy8gcp?The-Genius-Guide-to-the-Vanguard

Anyway...now to the main discussion of the thread. I like the idea of a character who blends melee and arcane casting. Yet, I don't like playing characters with dumped-cha for RP reasons. Needless to say, when I found the cha-based Vanguard 3rd party class which is a cha-casting gish, I was excited. However, while it certainly looks fun, I am having trouble seeing how it can possibly compete with the magus. Thats why I've made this thread. I want to start a discussion on the strengths and weaknesses of each class, and figure out if there really is any good reason to play a vanguard other then the RP of being charismatic? If anybody knows the revised vanguard and has some positive points about it I'd be interested in knowing them. The main plus, from what I can see, that the vanguard has is twofold. First, it can cast without a free hand as long as it has it's weapon, meaning it can go sword and board and is better-suited to two-handed weapons and archery then the magus. Second, it gets default access to the wis/sorc list, which is better then the magus list. The big downside that I see, though, is that it cannot add metamagic to spells it casts through it's weapon, meaning that in terms of damage it will be lagging behind a magus significantly, unless somebody more well-versed in the class knows if it has some feature that gets around this drawback?

If anybody who has experience with the revised vanguard in-play could tell me whether or not it really is useless when compared to a magus, or can actually be a respectable gish who is not pointless when put next to the magus? Any thoughts/imput on this would be grateful


If you bought the book for the vangaurd it has some over powered feats for the class. One of the feats allows you to apply metamagic to your channeled spells. Another feat which can be taken multiple times increases your ability to cast your spells as swift actions.
The vangaurd is overpowered.

Dark Archive

I did buy the book, but I didn't really look at the feats. At base/without the feats, it actually looks strong, but worse off in terms of damage then the Magus. However, if there is a feat that allows it to metamagic with it's weapon then yeah, it is not an inferior magus at all. The lack of metamagic with it's weapon channeling was -the- main thing that made it seem weaker, to me.

Scarab Sages

Nothing says you have to dump charisma on a magus.

Mine is quite diplomatic: Dariamus


So, if I'm understanding correctly, the Vanguard is at least comparable to the magus, or possibly is even stronger than it?


Archmage Joda wrote:
So, if I'm understanding correctly, the Vanguard is at least comparable to the magus, or possibly is even stronger than it?

Stronger if you take the feats they list within the Vanguard book.


Actually I had a hard time seeing how you couldn't easily break the revised vanguard. I'm currently playing one and he is fun. My biggest problem was I am a Charisma caster but don't have bluff or diplomacy. I don't have trouble doing damage or hitting my target though. I like having Combat Casting instead of an ability that allows me to take even more negatives to hit to get a bonus to concentration checks. I also like having an innate scalable magic missile so if I want to be melee I don't need a ranged weapon. Sure you don't get spell combat and have to rely on just a spell strike for the vanguard, but swift spell is nice later on.


You think the Vanguard is really that potent, Fnipernackle? Elaborate on how easily broken it is? What is your current one's build?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Magus vs. Revised Vanguard? (Or is the Vanguard useless by comparison?) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice