| Rudy2 |
Besides the Iroran Paladin guide,
15 pt. Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 7 Cha 15
Race - Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 7 Cha 17
Level- Str 18 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 7 Cha 18
Way I see it, you can either plan on a Iroran Paladin 2 / Oracle+, Iroran paladin 4 / Oracle+, or just an oracle dip depending on what you want. Oradin would work fine here, as would the various dips to take advantage of CHA to AC and CMD/reflex saves
Paladin 4, in this case, gets your personal trial to +2, 2/day, and gets you +4 to ac, as well as getting you the ki pool. Ki pool isn't as amazing if you're not going to dip into sohei for flurry.
If you can get Bluff as a class skill, you can consider going
Scion of Humanity > Racial Heritage (Gnome) > Bewildering Koan, which is a fantastic way to use your ki points if you don't have flurry of blows.
| Rudy2 |
For an Oracle dip, your best choices are between a Life Oracle (Oradin) and a Lore/Lunar/Nature mystery dip for the CHA to AC. The latter only works if your GM lets you apply CHA to AC twice (once from the Oracle, once from the Iroran Paladin).
I'm not a huge fan of the latter version myself; I think you're sacrificing too much for a build which already has very, very good defense. If you like it, though, more power to ya.
| Rudy2 |
Another thought that occurred to me is, if your party needs a Knowledge guy, the dip into Lore oracle for all knowledges as class skills, plus the revelation that lets you use CHA for knowledge checks, plus the Deific Obedience (Irori) feat (+4 sacred bonus to ALL knowledge) checks, makes you very effective at knowledge checks.
A single rank in a knowledge check will get you 1+3trained+4CHA+4sacred = +12. More when your charisma goes up, and get mossy ioun stones later, and you may never need to invest more than one rank.
| Rudy2 |
Hmm... it's tough. Yeah, if you're not going to get flurry, I would recommend a reach weapon, yes. Your unarmed strikes will not be that great until higher levels.
Power attack is never remiss, though if you're going to be primarily a paladin I do unsurprisingly recommend Fey Foundling as your 1st level feat.
| Rudy2 |
Well, it comes down to: do you want to be a superior healer in addition to a combatant? If so, Life Oracle 2 / Paladin + for Oradin (And definitely get Fey Foundling in that case). Do you want to be a damage dealer? If so, I recommend Monk (Sohei) 1 / Paladin + instead of Oracle. Do you want to be a tank? If so, then pick an oracle dip with the AC boost, with the rest Paladin.
| Rudy2 |
Is Lunar, Nature, or Lore the best way to go?
Well... there's a few things to consider.
First, your dex modifier to AC which will effectively be twice your charisma modifier (once from Paladin, once from Oracle). So, with 18 charisma, your dex bonus to ac is effectively +8. This will be capped by your armor's max dex, though, so you're going to end up wearing something really light. This is one of the reasons I'm not impressed by the CHA to AC twice.
The choice between the three mostly comes down to whether you want charisma to CMD or to reflex saves in addition to AC.
| David knott 242 |
That double dip works best if most of your levels are as an Iroran paladin -- otherwise, you may find that your best AC option is the medium armor and shield combination available to the oracle. It also works well if you have some reason to take monk levels and not completely dump wisdom (something that I could see doing with some added D&D 3.5 material but not with pure Pathfinder rules).
blackbloodtroll
|
I actually like the light armor idea.
As I am envisioning it, the PC would be as close to nude as possible.
Flavor reasons.
Maybe, UMD, and a Wand of Nereid's Grace?
| Rudy2 |
That double dip works best if most of your levels are as an Iroran paladin -- otherwise, you may find that your best AC option is the medium armor and shield combination available to the oracle. It also works well if you have some reason to take monk levels and not completely dump wisdom (something that I could see doing with some added D&D 3.5 material but not with pure Pathfinder rules).
With 15 point buy, there's no way to get a reasonable charisma, wisdom AND strength to make it worth while to go without armor.
The build that blackbloodtroll wants will probably end up using a haramaki, with no max dex bonus. Once you get to 20 charisma, your effective dex bonus is +10, and it's pointless to wear anything else.
| Rudy2 |
Another point about the choice of mysteries. It's not 100% clear whether the charisma bonus from Iroran Paladin applies to CMD. I think that a strict RAW reading says "no", but I think a strong intent argument can be made that it is meant to enhance your dex bonus for the purposes of both AC and CMD.
If your GM does not allow it to apply to CMD, then CMD is a weak point which I recommend you shore up by choosing the Nature mystery.
If your GM does allow it to apply to CMD, then your CMD should be good enough, and I would take the Lore or Lunar mysteries to enhance your reflex saves. Probably Lunar, for the reason that it gives Perception as a class skill (if you're sure you don't want knowledge skills).
| AndIMustMask |
off the top of my head: dual-cursed (???/legalistic) lore/nature/lunar oracle 1 / iroran paladin 14?
any of the mysteries work nicely, it just depends on whether you want higher reflex or CMD. your saves should be respectable anyway, so i usually go for the CMD in that case.
lunar can also net you a full-progression animal companion if you spend the feats for extra revelation and boon companion (which isn't too painful since paladins are usually rather feat-light).
wolfscarred/lunar (with a wolf AC/later mount) might work nice thematically.
| Rudy2 |
Perhaps later, but that's definitely not worth the expenditure for you at 4th level. Your AC will already be crazy good. And you won't be able to UMD reliably anyway. I would suggest holding off, myself.
off the top of my head: dual-cursed (???/legalistic) lore/nature/lunar oracle 1 / iroran paladin 14?
any of the mysteries work nicely, it just depends on whether you want higher reflex or CMD. your saves should be respectable anyway, so i usually go for the CMD in that case.
lunar can also net you a full-progression animal companion if you spend the feats for extra revelation and boon companion (which isn't too painful since paladins are usually rather feat-light).
wolfscarred/lunar (with a wolf AC/later mount) might work nice thematically.
How are you getting a "full-progression" animal companion? It's based on your oracle level; even with Boon Companion, it won't keep up, since that only boosts it by 4. You can't apply it more than once to the same animal, if that's what you were thinking.
| Rudy2 |
Also, I can get UMD up to about +16 at 4th level.
If I so choose.
How do you manage this? 4 ranks, 5 charisma. Are you making it a class skill with a trait? +2 competence from ioun stone.
Oh, and I said this in the other thread, but while the archetype does not explicitly say that you have to worship Irori, I believe that is only because the author thought it was obvious. RAW, you don't have to, but I wouldn't let a player play one without worshiping Irori. Your results will depend on your GM. If you can get away with worshiping Torag... good on you, I suppose.