Kitsune Disguise - how does it work?

[eddv]

In light of the news that you can play kitsunes starting after Gencon I decided I wanted to play a kitsune rogue or perhaps bard or sorceror (Rakshasa bloodline) who specialized in disguises and such but it seems there are some corner rules issues in play and I wanted to ask about them.

The Kitsune have their personal alter self spell that allows them a +10 bonus towards being disguised as humans (specifically their chosen form). If I wish to disguise myself in that form as someone else, does that bonus apply?

Is a person attempting to pierce that second level of disguise capable of figuring out I'm actually a kitsune?

Further, should I use a spell like Disguise Self am I able to use that on my human alter self form?

Or would I only be able to use it on my kitsune form directly? Would trying to do this basically necessitate my taking the Realistic Likeness feat? Would disguise self be redundant if i did?

Thanks for your patience as I'm not really sure on any of this.

[SCPRedMage]

The kitsune Change Shape racial ability says they have a specific human form; this is just what they look like as a human, and every time they use it to take their human form, they always look the same.

In other words, it's not really a "disguise" in any form other than as a human.

Now, as to the bonus the ability provides...

Change Shape (Su) wrote:

A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human.

The bonus only applies to checks made to appear human; checks made for any other purpose, like to imitate a different person, would not get the bonus.

In other words, the ability to take a specific, set-in-stone human form does not grant you any bonus to make that fake mustache you pulled out of your disguise kit look real; if it did, the Realistic Likeness feat would be pretty much useless.

As to disguise self, as an illusion it pretty much takes priority over your actual physical appearance, but the two don't really interact.

[Ellias Aubec]

There is a feat that allows you to change your human form to look like specific other human(oids) if you want to do that.

[Dylos]

The +10 disguise is for others to realize you are not human, it does not add to mundane or other magical disguises.

In the case of being disguised in your human form here is how I personally would handle it. First they make a perception roll vs your disguise, for example, let's say you are disguised as Shelia Heidmarch, the first perception is to realize that you are not Shelia Heidmarch. Should they succeed at this first roll, they make a second to realize that you are not even human, if they failed the first roll then they think you are Shelia Heidmarch and never get a chance to realize you are not human, unless something tips them off. If they succeed at knowing that you are not human, they do not know that you are a Kitsune, as Kitsune are not the only creatures capible of polymorphing into a human form, they may even believe that you are a doppleganger.

As far as disguise self, it's an illusion, not a polymorph, so you can certainly use it in either form, but you recieve no additional bonuses for either form. If you use disguise self in your kitsune form and they succeed their will save, they will realize you are a Kitsune.

Something to keep in mind about the change shape ability, it is a physical transformation, your body literally becomes that of a human. If you are using Realistic Likeness, then your body is identical to that of the person you choose to copy, the disguise roll is made because you don't necessarily act like that person.

[SCPRedMage]

Dylos wrote:

If you are using Realistic Likeness, then your body is identical to that of the person you choose to copy, the disguise roll is made because you don't necessarily act like that person.

I'd say the disguise check represents more than just behavior...

[Dylos]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Dylos wrote:

If you are using Realistic Likeness, then your body is identical to that of the person you choose to copy, the disguise roll is made because you don't necessarily act like that person.

I'd say the disguise check represents more than just behavior...

Fair enough, though Realistic Likeness doesn't say that you can improved upon certain features.

An interesting thought occurred to me though, if one had a Kitsune Monk with Realistic Likeness, it would be possible, at 12+, to go to the men's restroom as Valeros and then come out of the women's restroom as Kyra.

[LazarX]

Dylos wrote:

SCPRedMage wrote:

Dylos wrote:

If you are using Realistic Likeness, then your body is identical to that of the person you choose to copy, the disguise roll is made because you don't necessarily act like that person.

I'd say the disguise check represents more than just behavior...

Fair enough, though Realistic Likeness doesn't say that you can improved upon certain features.

An interesting thought occurred to me though, if one had a Kitsune Monk with Realistic Likeness, it would be possible, at 12+, to go to the men's restroom as Valeros and then come out of the women's restroom as Kyra.

Well, if you do it at Dexcon, it can be the same bathroom, as they tend to be designated as unisex bathrooms.

[The Morphling]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Dylos wrote:

If you are using Realistic Likeness, then your body is identical to that of the person you choose to copy, the disguise roll is made because you don't necessarily act like that person.

I'd say the disguise check represents more than just behavior...

Hell YEAH, El Goonish Shive!