Unarmed Barbarian ala The Hulk

[RaizielDragon]

One of our players wants to play "The Hulk" in an upcoming campaign, and I always make his characters for him, so it is up to me to try to make it work.

Making Barbarians aren't normally all that complicated, but when you throw in wanting to not use weapons, it becomes a bit more complicated again.

Any suggestions on making it work? I know the Beast Totems lead up to Pounce, and give you natural weapons along the way, which are better than unarmed for non-monks, so there is that. Any other suggestions?

I'm looking at the Jotunkin and Invulnerable Rager archetypes. They only overlap on Trap Sense, so I'm going to discuss it with the DM and see if they are ok with allowing it, by just giving up those particular benefits all together.

[chaoseffect]

I came in here to say "go Natural Attacks." With Bite, Claw, Claw from the Beast line and then Power Attack, you are essentially done with mandatory things for the build. You could also take the standard anti-magic rage powers and the human/half-orc/half-elf/aasimar with scion of humanity favored class bonus to boost Superstition.

If you want to focus on being indestructible, take a look at Stalwart and Improved Stalwart as potential feats to fill up your feat tree; Half-Orc with the alternate racial for free Endurance + a luck bonus to saves would most likely be the best racial choice if you decide to go that way.

If you decide to go with Half-Orc, then I would also find room for the feat Grudge Fighter, as it is both awesome and fittings; with the appropriate +'d Furious Courageous Amulet of Mighty Fists, you're looking at up to +3 hit and damage off of a single feat.

[Secane]

Off hand thoughts,

Breaker archetype fits the hulk ideal, with the ability to grab and melee or throw anything as an improvised weapon at lv 3.

Seriously have you seen how hulk attacks? He uses his bare hands or GRABS anything at hand to use as a weapon.

Rage Powers to consider:
Body Bludgeon!!! (Get this totally, make it work! Hulk grabs YOU to SMASH!!!)
Strength Surge (Hulk's ANGRY!!!)

Just these off hand.

[Altus Lucrim]

Ok I totally got your back, Hulk isn't much of a Barbarian.... He's more an alchemist/masterchemist (rage Chemist) This is what I did for this effect:
Human:
Str: 15(+2) Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis 8: Cha: 13
1.Alchemist Feats: Skill Focus (Survival), Toughness
2.Barbarian
3.Alchemist Disc. Feral Mutagen, Eldritch Heritage (Orc)
4.Alchemist Str +1 (BTW Rage + Mutagen at this point =28 str, 30 enlarged)
5.Alchemist Disc. Preserve Organs 1, Extra Rage
6.Alchemist
7.Alchemist Disc. Preserve Organs 2, Power Attack
8.Master Chemist. Str+1

Continuing on Take Improved Eldritch Heritage at 11 and 13 for fear immunity and Extra Strength (Plus an excuse to turn green) Feats are basically filler, but Str will hit 50 around level 17 with Greater Eldritch Heritage.

[Imbicatus]

I would say go with a grapple focused Brutal Pugilist Barbarian with the Body Bludgeon rage power. It really lets you recreate the "Puny God" scene in Avengers. A one level dip in Martial Artist monk would give you the required Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple for free. If you go Martial Artist 5, you are immune to fatigue and can rage cycle.

[RaizielDragon]

Body Bludgeon and Breaker are great, thematically, but I think they involve too much investment for what you get out of them. I think it would be better to just focus on HULK SMASH.

As for Alchemist, I had considered it. I've seen a player play a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde build that did basically the same thing, and his action economy was pretty terrible. A standard action to use the mutagen is pretty bad. And you only get 1 per day. I agree that stacking them gives you some amazing Strength, but wouldn't it work better, action-wise to just pick one or the other?

[nate lange]

+1 to alchemist...
if you really want to do the Hulk you want a Ragechemist alchemist with 2 levels of Wild Rager barbarian (heading for Master Chymist). personally i'd bite the bullet and start with 18+ Str though. with those classes you'll have monster strength and a real danger of losing control (which is dangerous, but does allow you to rage longer each day).

[Imbicatus]

Personally, I am waiting for the Mutagenic Mauler brawler archetype...

[RaizielDragon]

The player nixed the idea of an uncontrollable Hulk, so no Wild Rager

[Duncan7291]

Imbicatus wrote:

Personally, I am waiting for the Mutagenic Mauler brawler archetype...

Similar minds, I was about to post this reply:

"If you want a brawler like Bane who is at her best due to chemical enhancements, the Mutagenic Mauler has your back."

[RaizielDragon]

Mutagenic Mauler sounds pretty close to the concept, being compared to Bane.

It sounds like it will be pretty similar to a Ragechemist, except that, instead of starting out as a scrawny, intelligent, scientist, who takes a strength-enhancing formula (ala Dr Jekyll), you just start out as an athletic person who uses some formula to get even stronger (ala Bane, obviously). Kind of a steroid-using muscle man.

All of these still don't quite capture the flavor of Hulk though. Sure, Bruce Banner was a smart scientist, and gains his abilities through a scientific accident. But once he has the powers, he doesn't have to drink something like Dr Jekyll. He just DOES it. This seems more like a Barbarian to me.

I think the Alchemist/Barbarian combination has the highest Strength potential, so I will discuss it with the player.

I'm still worried about the action economy.

Also, on race, Human is an easy default, but what about some more exotic ones, like Were-boar or Half-ogre?

[luverscastle]

RaizielDragon wrote:

Body Bludgeon and Breaker are great, thematically, but I think they involve too much investment for what you get out of them. I think it would be better to just focus on HULK SMASH.

As for Alchemist, I had considered it. I've seen a player play a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde build that did basically the same thing, and his action economy was pretty terrible. A standard action to use the mutagen is pretty bad. And you only get 1 per day. I agree that stacking them gives you some amazing Strength, but wouldn't it work better, action-wise to just pick one or the other?

2 things

1: Mutagen is not once a day, it just takes an hour to brew and you can only have one mutagen ready to go at a time.
2: Master Chemist actually gets a thing called mutagenic form 2/day and super long durations that lets you go to your mutagen effect. Totally worth it.

[nate lange]

yeah, Master Chymist has the Mutate power which is literally just turning into the Hulk (or whatever your chosen form is) without having to drink anything. as luverscastle said, they start with it 2/day (and gain more as they level), and they can still prepare mutagens on top of that (the effects don't stack, it does give you more uses per day though).

[RaizielDragon]

Is it still a Standard action to Mutate?

[nate lange]

yes
but it has a long duration, so that should only be an issue when you get surprised...

[Trahir]

I'm playing in a campaign where the whole group is playing as Avengers characters and I'm playing Hulk, so I've given this a lot of thought. I ended up going with your thought - Barbarian with Jotunkin and Invulnerable Rager. I also dipped into Brawler for a couple levels for the Unarmed feats and the flurry. Lots of good options for rage powers to mimic typical Hulk stuff. I haven't gotten to play it a ton yet so I don't know how it will play out long run, but it seems fairly solid thus far.