Perhaps it was a 3.5 rule, but I thought for a specialist one of your new spells must be from your school.
I couldn't find this rule in the Pathfinder rules. Do you think it was removed?
I don't think it was. Here's the relevant rule:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.
It's definitely still in there.
It's at page 219 of the Core.
It's definitely still in there.
It's at page 219 of the Core.
The line was removed from the PRD and from new editions of the Core book. That section now reads
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his prohibited schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook. At each new wizard level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new wizard level) for his spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to his own (see Magic).
It's definitely still in there.
It's at page 219 of the Core.
The line was removed from the PRD and from new editions of the Core book. That section now reads
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his prohibited schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook. At each new wizard level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new wizard level) for his spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to his own (see Magic).
You're reading the wrong section where I originally found the text.
On the PRD, the section reads thusly:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
Compared to what I found at the D20PFSRD site:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.
Since the PRD lacks the bolded part, which is the rule they had in place originally, apparently they did decide to remove it, but I do not have this change reflected in my books. Then again, I wasn't even aware that it changed in the first place.
Good to know; all it does is grant even more freedom and power to the already overpowered casters...
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@ Lifat: It makes a good enough difference. Maybe it won't to non min-maxers, but when you can pull off an amazing spell combination with 2 of your new-found spells, progressing from that level just got a lot easier. It's the greatest difference with 9th level spells, since instead of automatically learning spells like Wish, Time Stop, and/or Create Greater Demiplane, you can only learn one of those sorts of spells and one that is your specialty, and not learning the ones you need to learn will result in PC voiding.
It also gives them a lot less restriction for their WBL purchasing, such as getting scrolls to scribe, or borrowing spellbooks to memorize, since they can simply take the "hard-to-find" spells and then buy the rest if they really want them, or not because the "hard-to-find" spells are the only ones they really need, which means they can spend their WBL on other, more important things.
I also always liked that rule since it symbolized both flavor and balance for the class; if you're an Evocation specialist, but hardly ever take Evocation spells to cast with, how are you an Evocationist exactly? Why even call yourself a specialist if you can just take whatever the heck spells you want?
The slightest things can have some of the greatest impacts. You won't notice it until it takes effect.
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It is an advantage, even if not so powerful. The scrolls found in most AP and published adventures are primarily from the CRB. Same thing for the fixed spell in the enemy spellbooks. So adding spells found in the CRB to your spellbook is easy. Spell found in other hardbound a bit less. Spell found in a different softbound is almost unheard unless the GM decide to give them to some caster or they are reprinted in the adventure (and it is logic, the adventures are meant to be playable with what is in the CRB or at most in the PRD, they shouldn't require you to own some specific softbound).
So being able to add 2 less know spells to your spellbook is useful.
Personally I would restrict the automatic new spell access (without some spell research played by the PC or finding them in some way [non in the magic mart at the corner of the street]) to the spells in the CRB and some spell in the other hardbound.
Edit: or softbound, if appropriated. Essentially I (the GM) decide if a spell si common knowledge and so it can be automatically learned, or not.
Every wizard with 9th level spells knowing Aroden spellbane sound ridicule to me. At that point you can remove the "Aroden" part from the name and call it spellbane, as it is a common spell.
As that can create some problem for spontaneous spellcasters, I would allow to freely exchange researched spells for those a spontaneous spellcaster know, while found spell would have to be retrained as for the UCamp (or exchanged for older spells, as for the normal rules for spontaneous spellcasters).
That has the added benefit that if some future product publish a new spell that is very appropriate for a spontaneous spellcaster and he hasn't hte chance of exchange it as for the CRB rules, he can still learn it doing some research or retraining.
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Spellbane is, in fact, quasi-generic in the PRD content.
No seebs, it is not in any hardbound. And the d20PFSRD remove the Aroden part of the name for copyright purposes. It do the same thing other spell and abilities, where it remove the copyrighted part of the ability name.
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I don't think removing the 'has to take one spell for his specialist school' clause automatically opens up all non-Core spells - that's a different issue (just as with the clause it was a different issue). Technically any spells outside of Core need to be found or researched (hence there's stuff like benefits in the Factions book which let you find some non-Core spells in return for some prestige, and references to 'new and unusual' spells in the Core magic section)... it's just that it's a more-ignored rule than most.
I checked the latest errata document for the Core book, and it's specifically listed as a change they made - which was news to me, so thanks to the OP for asking the question and making me look! :)
Is there possibly a link to this? I ask because I and my DM typically use the D20PFSRD during games for ease of use, (unless the rule is disproven with such documents) and the rule still shows on the site. If this is true, I might make a small change to a pick I just made for my leveled up wood wizard.
You should probably change from the D20PFSRD and use the PRD, as this will be official material (but won't be useful for 3rd party items).I checked the latest errata document for the Core book, and it's specifically listed as a change they made - which was news to me, so thanks to the OP for asking the question and making me look! :)Is there possibly a link to this? I ask because I and my DM typically use the D20PFSRD during games for ease of use, (unless the rule is disproven with such documents) and the rule still shows on the site. If this is true, I might make a small change to a pick I just made for my leveled up wood wizard.
On the other hand, the PRD only contains content from the "core line" of hardcover books.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy88yj
Look specifically at:
Fifth Printing to Sixth Printing (v5.0) - Download (2.2MB zip/PDF)
Which says:
• Page 219—In the Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook section, in the Spells Gained at a New Level paragraph, delete the last sentence of the paragraph.
Thank you much!
You should probably change from the D20PFSRD and use the PRD, as this will be official material (but won't be useful for 3rd party items).
I shall take that into consideration, as of yet though, we haven't found many problems using it. Thanks for the info though.
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FYI, d20pfsrd.com has been updated per a report someone sent to us.
Content from books other than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product line are not added to the PRD but they ARE added to d20pfsrd.com.
You are, as always, free to use d20pfsrd.com or not, at your discretion. We strive to ensure that the site is as up-to-date and convenient for in-game use as possible. If you come across issues you can always contact us (there is a "REPORT AN ISSUE" link at the top of the main page of the site, you can email me jreyst@gmail.com, you can PM me here... you can tag me on Facebook 'John Reyst', you can join the Fans of d20pfsrd.com Facebook group... I monitor all of them and usually respond within minutes.)
I think better visibility of what is 3rd party and what is paizo made would be popular. A lot of GM's I play with strictly disallow 3rd party stuff, including psionics.FYI, d20pfsrd.com has been updated per a report someone sent to us.
Content from books other than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product line are not added to the PRD but they ARE added to d20pfsrd.com.
You are, as always, free to use d20pfsrd.com or not, at your discretion. We strive to ensure that the site is as up-to-date and convenient for in-game use as possible. If you come across issues you can always contact us (there is a "REPORT AN ISSUE" link at the top of the main page of the site, you can email me jreyst@gmail.com, you can PM me here... you can tag me on Facebook 'John Reyst', you can join the Fans of d20pfsrd.com Facebook group... I monitor all of them and usually respond within minutes.)
They put the source at the bottom of the feat/spell/etc. It is clear as to who created what.
They put the source at the bottom of the feat/spell/etc. It is clear as to who created what.I think better visibility of what is 3rd party and what is paizo made would be popular. A lot of GM's I play with strictly disallow 3rd party stuff, including psionics.FYI, d20pfsrd.com has been updated per a report someone sent to us.
Content from books other than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game product line are not added to the PRD but they ARE added to d20pfsrd.com.
You are, as always, free to use d20pfsrd.com or not, at your discretion. We strive to ensure that the site is as up-to-date and convenient for in-game use as possible. If you come across issues you can always contact us (there is a "REPORT AN ISSUE" link at the top of the main page of the site, you can email me jreyst@gmail.com, you can PM me here... you can tag me on Facebook 'John Reyst', you can join the Fans of d20pfsrd.com Facebook group... I monitor all of them and usually respond within minutes.)
On top of which, they actually have sections in several (though not all) entries that denote 1st party (Official Pathfinder) and 3rd party content (3PP). I believe it's quite obvious what subject is what. I think what needs to be established is what content comes from hardcover rulebooks and what content comes from softcovers, APs, etc.
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I didn't know about this, but I totally endorse it because I'm playing a diviner, and I have long since run out of divination spells.
Actually, this is the exact issue that caused that line to be removed. When you level up as an X specialist, but already have all the spells of the levels that you can prepare of that school in your spellbook, you lost out.
Now, you should still, especially when a new level of spells open up, be taking a spell of your specialty school, you have additional options later, so that you don't lose out on the free spells you are supposed to get when leveling up.
Believe me, your PC Wizard will feel the burn the first time a new spell level opens up, and they only take spells outside their specialty, since they will have spell slots that they won't be able to put anything into... Other than metamagicked lower level spells, including the lower DC for the saves...
Edit: typos
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Those are nearly always the first spells to take, yeah.
But I've been aggressively pursuing spells. A lot. Like, enough that even with Cypher Script, I still had cases where I ran out of time to copy spells before I ran out of spells I wanted to copy. And since so far as we know, you can actually copy spells you can't yet cast, I have at least once reached a new spell level and already had every divination of that spell level in my books.
(And even with Cypher Script, I'm now on my second Blessed Book.)
No doubt, but not everyone pursues spells that assiduously.
Experienced spellbook casters, and those that play with them regularly, know that you get as many spells as you can, as often as you can, and that you can Take 10 on the Spellcraft check to scribe the spells, which means that a typical spellbook caster usually can easily scribe spells up to 6th or 9th, as appropriate for their class, at fairly low levels.
For newer players, though, it can be problematic.
But, the rule change was for situations where, like your PC, the specialist already has all the specialty spells of every level he can cast already in his spellbook(s).
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On top of which, they actually have sections in several (though not all) entries that denote 1st party (Official Pathfinder) and 3rd party content (3PP). I believe it's quite obvious what subject is what.
I was going to say this as well. Most of the 3pp stuff (feats, magic items, spells, etc.) are in their own 3rd Party section of the site entirely. Stuff like class archetypes are under the classes they're archetypes of but they always very clearly indicate that they're not from Paizo.
I think what needs to be established is what content comes from hardcover rulebooks and what content comes from softcovers, APs, etc.
Since we always go to the point of indicating what book something comes from, I think that's about as far as we're going to go. At one point we had a special graphic indicating "This is a 'core' product" and "This is a 'peripheral' product" but ultimately we felt it was too hard for us to make the judgment call as to what is and isn't "core". So we indicate the source and let the GM determine if it's "core" to him (or her.)
Honestly, for me the best thing with d20pfsrd is that it's so much easier to navigate and find things.
In a heated rules debate I will go to the PRD, or if something seems "too good to be true", but if I want to get ideas, or cross-reference stuff, or in particular when making monsters, d20pfsrd is invaluable.
(Granted I also like looking in the physical books for ideas, though I have less than I'd like).
In 99% of cases, d20pfsrd is the better site for me. But in the last 1%, the PRD is really a must have.
Our GM insists that the specialist take BOTH spells from her school, though there are a lot more spells in the campaign, mostly culled from 3rd party sources our generated by PCs. My po' hapless Ranger has over 20 spells to chose from of level 1 alone. Best thing is that I 'know' them all and I am only limited by slots!
This should light up the next PFS nite's discussions!
Our GM insists that the specialist take BOTH spells from her school, though there are a lot more spells in the campaign, mostly culled from 3rd party sources our generated by PCs. My po' hapless Ranger has over 20 spells to chose from of level 1 alone. Best thing is that I 'know' them all and I am only limited by slots!
This should light up the next PFS nite's discussions!
If a GM told me that I would go generalist or sorc. There is only so much a diviner can do.
Kinevon, you brought up a point I hadn't thought about. Still worth doing after the fact though.
By which I mean, specialist wizard at level 3, pick up a school spell you really want (Unless you don't want to use the extra school spell slot), at 4th, pick whatever you want (if what you want is still in school, even better).
Really? You'd go generalist over something that small? I wouldn't care at all. If my GM made me take all 4 spells from my specialty school I'd still be going specialist. I'd simply look ahead and try to fill up my book with the essential spells of the next spell level that I haven't learned yet.If a GM told me that I would go generalist or sorc. There is only so much a diviner can do.Our GM insists that the specialist take BOTH spells from her school, though there are a lot more spells in the campaign, mostly culled from 3rd party sources our generated by PCs. My po' hapless Ranger has over 20 spells to chose from of level 1 alone. Best thing is that I 'know' them all and I am only limited by slots!
This should light up the next PFS nite's discussions!
I understand it as saying that both of the spells gained at a new level had to be from the school.
If so, then yes. That is not a small thing. A large portion of the spells come from the free spells.
Really? You'd go generalist over something that small? I wouldn't care at all. If my GM made me take all 4 spells from my specialty school I'd still be going specialist. I'd simply look ahead and try to fill up my book with the essential spells of the next spell level that I haven't learned yet.If a GM told me that I would go generalist or sorc. There is only so much a diviner can do.Our GM insists that the specialist take BOTH spells from her school, though there are a lot more spells in the campaign, mostly culled from 3rd party sources our generated by PCs. My po' hapless Ranger has over 20 spells to chose from of level 1 alone. Best thing is that I 'know' them all and I am only limited by slots!
This should light up the next PFS nite's discussions!
I understand it as saying that both of the spells gained at a new level had to be from the school.
If so, then yes. That is not a small thing. A large portion of the spells come from the free spells.
I usually have 10+ spells of any given spell level that I can cast. And sometimes I run amok and that is when my wizard needs to get a haversack for his spellbooks alone.
That means that with standard rules where 1 specialty school spell has to be chosen per level would constitute 20% and with all free spells must be specialty school I'd be at 40%... The difference in my case isn't that different.
Even if you said no free spells have to be from specialty school, then you'd usually still get at least 1 spell from your specialty school at any given spell level, which means 10%... Not that big a difference either. I could EASILY live with either rule.In a game where you only get 5-6 spells known at any given spell level then it would be a huge deal, but at that point I'd ask why you were playing a wizard in the first place.
In some games you can do that, but it still takes a while. At low levels that rule can be extremely limiting, and if I die I wont ever get to those extra spells. Now if your GM gives you a lot of time to shop and craft then it would not be so bad, but I prefer to not have to depend on the GM so much to get spells.