When you move diagonally, do you have to continue the 1-2-1-2 movement if you have started new series of diagonal movements?
Even though this question should be very easy to answer, explaining it always seems very difficult, so I am just going to link a picture and ask if it is right or not.
Yes. It's every other diagonal step during your movement counts as 10' of movement.
Im more with the It's Wrong, sorry. In my opinion you have to aply this "extra 5ft" every 2 diags, even when not consecutive.
Dont know if its raw correct or not. Just my opinion.
I'm with Snigg on this one. Just feels munchkiny otherwise.
The one on the right should be correct, not the one on the left,, although I can't find anything explicit in the rules so you can probably adjudicate as you want.
The reason is because on the left you have actually gained 2.5 feet of movement in you initial diagonals by leaving the diagonal movement on an 'off step'. You still need to make this up somewhere, thus the extra 5 feet the next diagonal movement you take that turn. The diagonal movement is an abstraction so you are going to run into janky situations that don't make a lot of sense with either ruling.
Right one is actually right. Else you can move in waving motion up and down and travel same distance as moving in straight line, just because every time you start "new diagonal". Left one can be right only if depicting movement spread across several turns.
Per PRD: Diagonals: When measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares, the third counts as 1, the fourth as 2, and so on.
Nowhere does it mention consecutive diagonals. All the even numbered diagonals you move count as 2 squares or 10ft and the odds are all 5ft making the image on the right correct assuming this was all done in one movement. I believe you reset between your turns.
My game group just omits it, and goes for 1 square = 1 square, any direction of movement. A few people are pointed out the diagrams and 'physics' of it, but it hasn't impacted our game as imbalanced yet, due to enemies using it as well, and terrain features make dedicated diagonal movement not always the ideal choice. Keeps it simple for us.
resets on each move action, not on each change of direction. Its more consistent that way.
resets on each move action, not on each change of direction. Its more consistent that way.
I run resets each round personally.
Interesting indeed. But if you use actual measurements 1sq = 1 inch, the one of the left is measuring correctly while the other is costing the player more movement speed than it should.
For example:
So, why would a player have to start over their count, if they have moved at least two diagonal spaces in a row IN THE SAME direction, and have to continue that same 1-2-1 pattern, if they are traveling in a new direction.
Interesting indeed. But if you use actual measurements 1sq = 1 inch, the one of the left is measuring correctly while the other is costing the player more movement speed than it should.
For example:
So, why would a player have to start over their count, if they have moved at least two diagonal spaces in a row IN THE SAME direction, and have to continue that same 1-2-1 pattern, if they are traveling in a new direction.
This isn't a true miniatures game. The 1-2-1-2 pattern is rough approximation of real world measurements.
If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
But the official rules are the 1-2-1-2 pattern, with no specifications on starting a new diagonal or changing directions mid move or any of that.
You count every diagonal even if they are not consecutive. Since most people dont move more than 10 squares in a given round it is not that much book keeping.
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Each diagonal is 1.5 squares of movement. Count your total and round down. That way, you don't have to remember if you moved an even or odd number of diagonals so far.
I'd always assumed that the count resets every turn, so a double move is cumulative counting, not rounding down at the end of the first move action, then starting fresh. But now that you mention it, I don't think that's explicitly covered in the rules anywhere.
Running diagonally is terribly inefficient in pathfinder/3.5, you lose 10.3" every two squares that you move. What we really should do is keep a running tally of the total squares they've moved diagonally and multiple it by 2^(1/2) to determine how many squares they can actually move. Or you could just say every square is the same and be done with it, I don't know.
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Apparently some people like square balls. To each their own. Remember, the diagonal movement rule is a compromise between the reality of movement (so there aren't square fireballs) and having a simplified game mechanic (so you don't have to do trig equations every time you move your character). Is it perfect, or exact? Of course not. It's a game. But it's better than square balls.
The "1-2-1" rule is just shorthand to help calculate diagonal distance. In reality, you're calculating euclidean distance rounded down to increments of 5 feet.
If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
It's not about liking it or not, my math supports it. 1-2-1 is the game version of using a tape measure, its equal.
My question is, why the math fails if you try and continue the same 1-2-1 pattern as see in the original post picture.
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If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
It's not about liking it or not, my math supports it. 1-2-1 is the game version of using a tape measure, its equal.
My question is, why the math fails if you try and continue the same 1-2-1 pattern as see in the original post picture.
Because it's not equal to using a tape measure. The game rules claim that a diagonal is 1.5 squares, when it's actually around 1.41. For short distances, close enough, but you will lose squares over long distances because of it.
If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
It's not about liking it or not, my math supports it. 1-2-1 is the game version of using a tape measure, its equal.
My question is, why the math fails if you try and continue the same 1-2-1 pattern as see in the original post picture.
It is not equal and your picture does not show it being equal. You started your tape in a random spot in a square and ended it on a corner. You would have to start and stop at the same spot and it equal 6" for it to be equal. As others have pointed out, it is more like 1.4" than 1.5"
A wall built on 16" centers have studs with 16" from left side of one stud to the left side of the next stud. This means center to center and right to right is also 16". It does not mean center to right, right to left or left to center is equal to 16". It MUST be measured from the same spot on each stud.
If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
It's not about liking it or not, my math supports it. 1-2-1 is the game version of using a tape measure, its equal.
My question is, why the math fails if you try and continue the same 1-2-1 pattern as see in the original post picture.
It is not equal and your picture does not show it being equal. You started your tape in a random spot in a square and ended it on a corner. You would have to start and stop at the same spot and it equal 6" for it to be equal. As others have pointed out, it is more like 1.4" than 1.5"
Correct. The tape measure starts just to the left of the center of the leftmost square, and the 6 inch mark is just to the right of center of the right most square.
If you measured from the same point, say the bottom corners of those squares, you would see the measurement is closer to 5 and a half inches.
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By the way, in the example in your picture it doesn't matter. Either way it is 110 paces to the end. (In your "this is correct" you have the last three diagonals going "95, 100, 105" They should be "95, 100, 110")
That said, you are wrong.
Otherwise I can "knight move" (forward one, diagonal left one) repeatedly. So for a single 30 foot move, I go forward 1, diagonal 1, 3 times, for a total of 30 feet forward, and fifteen feet right
You guys are being extremely picky. :P
The reason the tape measure isn't exact in the picture is because I can't put it under the mini, the line effect label with out it falling over. It's got the metal notch at beginning of the tape measure.
If you put it under the mini and the line board, it would line up better. I suppose if I had a ruler, or a t-square something I could lay flat under the display it would look more accurate but then you can't see the numbers either.
do it yourself if you don't think so. Measure the same squares as in that second picture with the mite, and then put the mite and the line board down and it'll be EXACT.
I mean sure, if Paizo wants it to be mathematically incorrect, fine, it's their product and I'll keep using it that way since it is raw, but it's screwing players.
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When you move diagonally, do you have to continue the 1-2-1-2 movement if you have started new series of diagonal movements?
Even though this question should be very easy to answer, explaining it always seems very difficult, so I am just going to link a picture and ask if it is right or not.
In the picture you provided, assuming the creature can move 110' in a round, the picture on the right is the correct measure of distance. At least using the rules for movement. The 1-2-1-2 movement for diagonals resets with each round. So for one long continuous movement you have to keep track of your diagonals.
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You guys are being extremely picky. :P
The reason the tape measure isn't exact in the picture is because I can't put it under the mini, the line effect label with out it falling over. It's got the metal notch at beginning of the tape measure.
If you put it under the mini and the line board, it would line up better. I suppose if I had a ruler, or a t-square something I could lay flat under the display it would look more accurate but then you can't see the numbers either.
do it yourself if you don't think so. Measure the same squares as in that second picture with the mite, and then put the mite and the line board down and it'll be EXACT.
I mean sure, if Paizo wants it to be mathematically incorrect, fine, it's their product and I'll keep using it that way since it is raw, but it's screwing players.
Calls people out for being extremely picky, then makes a statement about how the rules are a known approximation and is screwing over the players. O.o
Math isn't close. It is right or wrong, especially with measuring.
You don't need a mini, you just need squares. If you measure from corner to corner through the center to the other corner it will be 1.41", 2 squares is 2.82", 4 squares is 5.65". Notice how that is not 6"?
Like others have said, just use a ruler if you want. But then what? What is flanking? How many degrees off of center counts? How close must mini bases be to count as threatened? Is it from base to base or center to center? Are all bases the same? If not, which part counts? How much of a mini must touch a piece of terrain to be hindered by it? Must the whole base clear the chasm, or just the tip?
Squares make it easier, not more realistic.
If you don't like that, and you are happy using a tape measure, feel free to toss out your grid and just use a tape measure to move in any direction you want, not just the 8 directions aligned based on a grid.
It's not about liking it or not, my math supports it. 1-2-1 is the game version of using a tape measure, its equal.
My question is, why the math fails if you try and continue the same 1-2-1 pattern as see in the original post picture.
Firstly, 1-2-1 is not mathematically equal to a tape measure 15ft as many people have already pointed out above.
Secondly, the reason the maths overcompensates on the second set of diagnoals is because it undercompensates on the first set. Your 'tapemeasure maths' does not take this into account.
How is this hard to understand?
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Actually, while the second one is correct, you get the correct distance in the first one, if you erase the 75. You would be moving that diagonal from 70 to 80, which uses the correct 10' for the even numbered diagonal on a turn, and the correct distance, since the next diagonal is back at 5', so 80-85, and that one non-diagonal is what is screwing up the distance traveled, since all the rest of the steps are correct.
Since the rest of the red area is not hard corners, you can presumably travel the diagonal from the 70' square, as well.
Sniggevert is correct. Another way you can look at it is to move diagonally every other square. Either way they equal the same thing.
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Okay, I put together my own little graphic:
The red square is where you start.
In a gridless system, you would be able to move your token anywhere where it's center stayed inside the purple circle.
Green is where the you can move your token right now.
Blue is the extra area opened by allowing 1-2-1-1-2-1 diagonal movement.
I believe you reset between your turns.I could see an argument that you wouldn't, but I'm not sure the additional accuracy is worth quite that level of bookkeeping.
You cannot end your movement on an invalid place. Thus, you loose that unspent portion of your move. The new turn starts out reset.
/cevah
Okay, I put together my own little graphic:
The red square is where you start.
In a gridless system, you would be able to move your token anywhere where it's center stayed inside the purple circle.Green is where the you can move your token right now.
Blue is the extra area opened by allowing 1-2-1-1-2-1 diagonal movement.
It's kinda neat how well the current system for diagonal movement actually works for making a circle.
This Spring Attack FAQ says that 2 move actions are considered as 1 movement, so i do not think resetting counter between them is how it works.