do I need Charge Through if I'm mounted?


Rules Questions


so

overrun combat rules wrote:
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square.
Charge Through feat wrote:
When making a charge, you can attempt to overrun one creature in the path of the charge as a free action.

Okay, here goes.

1. I am mounted, and I'm wielding a lance.
2. I want to skewer a bad guy wizard.
3. There's some pesky fighter or summoned creature in my way.
4. I'm going to charge the wizard! So, both I and my mount are going to perform the charge action.
5. Somehow, my mount gets to take a standard action during its charge (according to the overrun rules), and either jump over or knock down the wizard's roadblock. Thankfully it's got both Power Attack and Improved Overrun (which are both animal feats). (and for kicks I've just used my tactician ability to give both me and my mount an extra +2 to this maneuver via Coordinated Maneuvers)
6. I finish my charge and stab the wizard.

Now, because my mount used an overrun maneuver on the meat shield, clearly it can't attack at the end of the charge as well. But that's okay, because since I'm using a lance (a reach weapon), my movement would stop before my mount would get to stamp the wizard anyway.

This works, right?

In other words, Charge Through is useful only under the following conditions:
1. You're charging the wizard on foot (ie, you don't have a mount to suck the standard action to overrun the defender).
or
2. You're not wielding a reach weapon, and you'd like your mount to attack the wizard too (and you've boosted your mount's Int to 3 so it can take the feat).

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I used to have a 9th level Overrun master with this feat and several other Overrun feats.

I quickly learned two things:
1) Nearly every table runs these feats differently.
2) Paizo doesn't want to clarify/FAQ or Errata anything related to Overrun no matter how often people ask or how many FAQ a post get.

So your best bet is to "ask your GM" and if PFS, ask every GM and be prepared to run it different for each table. That is what I did before I finally said "this is too much work I'll switch characters."


If you look at the text for Overrun you quoted... you'll note that you're overrunning your target... not some mook on the way to your target.

So you have to be charging the mook, to overrun the mook.

Charge Through seems to let you get around this, to overrun the mook, while charging the wizard.


EvilMinion wrote:

If you look at the text for Overrun you quoted... you'll note that you're overrunning your target... not some mook on the way to your target.

So you have to be charging the mook, to overrun the mook.

Charge Through seems to let you get around this, to overrun the mook, while charging the wizard.

Okay, so, the mount charges the mook, and I charge the wizard. Mounted charging just says that both mount and rider must charge...nothing says they have to charge the same target.

James, I see what you mean...

Liberty's Edge

ohako wrote:
EvilMinion wrote:

If you look at the text for Overrun you quoted... you'll note that you're overrunning your target... not some mook on the way to your target.

So you have to be charging the mook, to overrun the mook.

Charge Through seems to let you get around this, to overrun the mook, while charging the wizard.

Okay, so, the mount charges the mook, and I charge the wizard. Mounted charging just says that both mount and rider must charge...nothing says they have to charge the same target.

James, I see what you mean...

FAQ wrote:

Mounted Combat: When making a charge while mounted, which creature charges? The rider or the mount?

Both charge in unison, suffer the same penalty to AC, the gaining the same bonus to the attack rolls and following all other rules for the charge. The mounted combat rules are a little unclear on this. Replace the third paragraph under the "Combat while Mounted" section on page 202 with the following text. Note that a "mounted charge" is synonymous with a "charge while mounted," and that when a lance is "when used from the back of a charging mount" it is during a mounted charge not when only the mount charges.

A mounted charge is a charge made by you and your mount. During a mounted charge, you deal double damage with your first melee attack made with a lance or with any weapon if you have Spirited Charge (or a similar effect), or you deal triple damage with a lance and Spirited Charge.

This change will be reflected in future printings of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook

So you must charge the same target, not different targets.

And about:

ohako wrote:


Now, because my mount used an overrun maneuver on the meat shield, clearly it can't attack at the end of the charge as well. But that's okay, because since I'm using a lance (a reach weapon), my movement would stop before my mount would get to stamp the wizard anyway.
PRD wrote:


A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat.

You can attack from any of the square occupied by your mount, so you can attack with reach from one of the back squares of the horse while it can attack from its front squares. Both of you can attack the wizard.


okay okay, since both you and the mount have to obey the rules of the charge, you can't charge the wizard while the mook is in the way, unless you have Charge Through, and the mook isn't actually the target. You could I guess lance the mook and then the mount overruns it without needing Charge Through.

man, that image of a horse biting a bad guy while you're lancing it...in real jousting that horse's neck is going to snap just like the jousting lance...

was planning on doing this with a wolf anyway, so that sharing-space wizardry doesn't work with a Small rider on a Medium mount. Sorta makes the Trample feat pointless, unless you cast monstrous extremities on the wolf beforehand...more imagery I didn't need...


This is straight forward actually. You want to charge x.and y is between you and x. Without charge through you cannot declair any charge action on y.

There is no having your mount chsrgeing a seperate target.

The part that is unclear though is if the rider or mount needs the feats. My view its the rider.

Short story if you want to overrun and target a guy with another guy between you need charge through. Mounted combat does not change this.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

A useful trick that may work is leaping right over anyone who is in the way of your charge line. Your mount will need a good Acrobatics (or a really good foot speed, or preferably both) to pull it off, but as long as you can jump high enough as part of the charge you should be able to do it.
Unless they changed that for Pathfinder of course.

--Penn

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