Resurrection and the out of body experience


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

When I am possessing another creature with magic jar, and someone destroys my original body, what happens when I try to get my body resurrected before my magic jar duration expires with things like raise dead or resurrection?

Does it even work seeing as I'm not quite all the way dead yet? Does it rip my "self" out of the host body and place it back into the corpse upon its revival?

What exactly happens? How do these effects interact?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

First.... you die as per the rules of magic jar. Not when the spell expires but immediately on the death of your real body. as per the rules text of the spell.

Everything else proceeds as normal.


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Really good question since resurection need the soul to depart for the after life while its still "trapped" in the magic jar ... GM fiat.


No, LazarX said it perfectly, you are dead because the death of your real body cancels the spell immediately. Rules as normal.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We must be reading different spells.

If the spell ends while you are in the magic jar, you return to your body (or die if your body is out of range or destroyed).

It seems to me that you only die once the spell ends and you are unable to return to your body due to its distance or destruction.

If it was as you say, there wouldn't be much point in the above rule's phrasing.


My reading is that you would survive, inhabiting the host body, until the spell's duration expires (or the host is slain). At that point, you would be forced back into the jar (or instantly slain, if out of range). Given there are no rules provided to extend the current iteration of the spell by simply casting it again, I don't see a functional way to prevent the spell from eventually expiring - Casting it again would not prevent the original casting from expiring and forcing you back to your body.

As for the resurrection or raise dead, it seems pretty self-explanatory. The spell fails because you are not technically dead (yet.) Just your body is.

Quote:

Raise Dead:

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Your soul is not free. It is bound to a magic jar or inhabiting a host body.

Hey, it at least gives you a chance to plan your own funeral.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Robb Smith wrote:

My reading is that you would survive, inhabiting the host body, until the spell's duration expires (or the host is slain). At that point, you would be forced back into the jar (or instantly slain, if out of range). Given there are no rules provided to extend the current iteration of the spell by simply casting it again, I don't see a functional way to prevent the spell from eventually expiring - Casting it again would not prevent the original casting from expiring and forcing you back to your body.

As for the resurrection or raise dead, it seems pretty self-explanatory. The spell fails because you are not technically dead (yet.) Just your body is.

Quote:

Raise Dead:

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Your soul is not free. It is bound to a magic jar or inhabiting a host body.

Hey, it at least gives you a chance to plan your own funeral.

I had it wrong, and Robb has it right. If your body is slain while you are in the jar, you remain in the Jar (or in the host body you're possessing) until the spell ends, at which point you die. While you are in either the jar or the host body, you can't be raised, much like a soul trap. In fact, you won't even be aware that your body has died until the spell ends, unless someone informs you of that fact while you're inhabiting a body. (In the jar itself you are incoummicado)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alright, so assuming you are informed on the matter if your body's destruction, is there any way to prevent the "full death" from actually occurring? Is there any action at all that could be taken prior to the end of the spell's duration?

The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is limited wish/wish for the restoration of your original body.


Keep a Ring of Regeneration on your body. Regeneration will prevent the death of your physical body from hp damage.


Claxon wrote:
Keep a Ring of Regeneration on your body. Regeneration will prevent the death of your physical body from hp damage.

Assuming that the people destroying the body doesn't take the time to remove the ring of regeneration.

The only way that I can see to prevent death assuming you are told about the destruction of your body would indeed be Wish and/or miracle.

Sovereign Court

Could you cast a new Magic Jar while your old casting is still active?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Alright, so assuming you are informed on the matter if your body's destruction, is there any way to prevent the "full death" from actually occurring? Is there any action at all that could be taken prior to the end of the spell's duration?

The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is limited wish/wish for the restoration of your original body.

The thing is.... your death has already happened. It simply just hasn't caught up to you yet because of an oddball circumstance.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
Could you cast a new Magic Jar while your old casting is still active?

Yes. Insofar as I know, it would cause your host to be freed, and your spirit to return to the jar.

LazarX wrote:
The thing is.... your death has already happened. It simply just hasn't caught up to you yet because of an oddball circumstance.

If I am already dead, then resurrection magic should work on my corpse, no?

Sovereign Court

I think theoretically, you could just keep casting Magic Jar spells indefinitely, as long as the duration is sufficient so that you can continue to hop from one receptacle to another. This probably requires CL 9+, to have a MJ that lasts the 8 hours needed to regain spells.

MJ doesn't say you can't cast another MJ while it's in effect.

If the duration of MJ1 runs out while you're in MJ2, it doesn't really say what would happen. You're not in a host body, and not in MJ1. So neither of those effects would happen. This leaves you in "undefined", but MJ2 could keep you alive, as long as it lasts.

You should probably use a different receptacle for MJ1 and MJ2.

But this might be the way to make a "living lich".


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ascalaphus wrote:
But [perpetual magic jar] might be the way to make a "living lich".

Been there, done that. :D


Quote:


I think theoretically, you could just keep casting Magic Jar spells indefinitely

I don't believe this works like that. Casting another magic jar is just casting another copy of the spell, not extending the one you already have present. Magic Jar #1 will still expire as normal, forcing you back to your body. I'm not seeing anything in here that allows you to extend a spell by casting it again.

Quote:


If I am already dead, then resurrection magic should work on my corpse, no?

No, because you're missing a vital component - the soul must be free and willing to return. Yours is not free (being stuffed in a gem is not exactly "free")

Sovereign Court

@Robb: you're not extending the first spell.

However, MJ1 only has text telling you what happens if you're in a stolen body or in MJ1 when the spell ends. If you're in MJ2, neither of those is the case, so MJ1 ending does... nothing.

Meanwhile, your soul is in MJ2, which still has some time left in the parking meter. So MJ2 can just hold your soul there.


Wish miracle and maybe lesser wish can give live back to your body whitout a free soul. It'll be an otomaton until ur soul is free from the magic jar. Regeneration may do the same trics along whit a few other spell as gm allow it.


Lifat wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Keep a Ring of Regeneration on your body. Regeneration will prevent the death of your physical body from hp damage.

Assuming that the people destroying the body doesn't take the time to remove the ring of regeneration.

The only way that I can see to prevent death assuming you are told about the destruction of your body would indeed be Wish and/or miracle.

Sorry, I think I imagined a slightly different scenario from others.

In my group when someone uses magic jar, we keep the body with us near by. With the proper magic we keep the body in an extradimensional space. So not easy to get to.

So, I was imagining using Magic Jar mid combat and now your body is exposed and vulnerable. However, I also imagined your party being present. So while an enemy could get to it, and damage it enough to kill your body, they would be under to much pressure to take the ring or anything until either the entire party was killed or they were defeated.

So, I think I was just imagining a different scenario from everyone else.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
In my group when someone uses magic jar, we keep the body with us near by. With the proper magic we keep the body in an extradimensional space. So not easy to get to.

That also puts your body in the "out of range" category when the spell's duration runs out. Being effectively in a different plane counts as out of range in my book.


LazarX wrote:
Claxon wrote:
In my group when someone uses magic jar, we keep the body with us near by. With the proper magic we keep the body in an extradimensional space. So not easy to get to.
That also puts your body in the "out of range" category when the spell's duration runs out. Being effectively in a different plane counts as out of range in my book.

True, but when you know how long you've got (and it's on the order of hours) it's not too hard to get your body back out so you can return to it.

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