GMing question: "Rolled" Events


Advice


Quick query: As a GM, is it kosher if I let my players think that a planned event was actually something I rolled randomly? I've got a plotline coming up in my campaign. I think it might heighten fun for everyone (both my players and me) if I roll some dice and consult a table, letting my players think the plotline's opening acts are just random, rather than me announcing the event, and everybody going, "AHA!!! It's the next adventure!!" Am I being too much the sneaky GM if I do this?

Paizo Employee

Yeah, you're totally fine. It's an ancient and honorable GM technique. A lot of GMs, for example, will choose or preroll random encounters. If nothing else, it makes prep way easier.

I often will actually consult the table in situations like that... just in case whatever's on the table is cooler. If you get a "none" or something boring, slot in your idea instead.

Granted, all this assumes you're not playing in a very adversarial game. If you're out to get your players, stick to the rules :)

Cheers!
Landon


Sounds fine to me, but don't get too disappointed when they don't get it even after the plot is revealed, many players (me included) tend to treat (perceived) random encounters as just that - random.

As a GM. I regularly roll dice to make it seem like an event contains a random element, that in truth isn't there.

It's a balancing act between story telling (design) and gameplay (random outcome).


Sounds like a lot of fun to me. They might initially think the encounter was organic, but when things start to connect, they'll work it out.


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Yeah, that's fine.

But don't discount random encounters. They can really enrich the game if you let them be more than "1d6 monsters show up and try to eat you, roll initiative".

Example: a recent encounter with a Sphinx turned into a trivia contest. The player posed the sphinx a question about the BBEG that the sphinx just couldn't answer. Sphinxes get Legend Lore as a spell-like ability, so I decided she would use that to learn the answer. No sphinx would admit defeat in a contest of wits if she has any other option!

I had no idea it would take 1d10 days. The player rolled a 9 for that, and the sphinx wound up joining the party for 9 days.

So that random encounter turned into a named NPC (Beshala), and a chance for me to introduce some neat backstory the player would otherwise have been unaware of. It added a lot to the game, and I never planned it.


Heh. Every morning, for nine days:

"So, what is his favor colo—"
"SHUT UP STILL THINKING"

Sovereign Court

I endorse this method. Have fun.


... people still roll events?

Sovereign Court

Zhayne wrote:
... people still roll events?

Damn right we do. In-B-4 badwrongfun


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I find it a little disheartening that you would come to the forums and ask the question: Is it all right if I do something that will be totally fun for both me and my players?

I mean, that's what the game is all about, right? Having fun? If you think it will be fun for them, and you know it will be fun for you, you should never have to ask other people if it's okay. Just do it man! Now, if you thought it would be fun, but it turned into a disaster, then come back to the forums and say: Tried this, it sucked, if your group is like mine, don't duplicate.

:)

Paizo Employee

Pan wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
... people still roll events?
Damn right we do. In-B-4 badwrongfun

Even if I don't always use them, I find rolling helps jar the mental cogs. "Oh, six stone giants, why are they here and what are they doing... huh, okay, let's run with that." Or the classic "No, that's dumb, I'm going to do this instead."

Of course, I also almost always do it in advance. So I have a bit of extra time to weave random results into the ongoing narrative.

Cheers!
Landon

Sovereign Court

I think it's a good, thought-provoking question. I'll start with the trivial answer: yes, it's kosher. It's always good to keep the players on their toes a bit, to stop them from thinking they know everything.

I'd like to distinguish some different flavors of "random encounter", and why you might use any of them.

First, we have the wandering monster. The WM is actually a scripted monster that lives in a room in the dungeon (or hex) somewhere, but sometimes it walks out to grab a snack or go to the toilet or pick up some office supplies, so you might run into it. If the party stays in one spot in the dungeon for a long time, it becomes increasingly probably that a monster will wander into that room. You can use a random table to pick one of the monsters from the dungeon. If you kill the monster, obviously it won't be found in it's keyed room anymore if you reach that room later on. Likewise, if you kill the monster in the room, it won't be found wandering the halls anymore. (Well, unless it refuses to stay dead...)

This is somewhat different from the randon encounter that is also designed to throw the GM for a loop. The RE is generated through some table or maybe a nice internet website with a generator on it. It has nothing to do with whatever the PCs were on about, but they have to deal with it somehow - hide/avoid, flee, fight, negotiate or something else. It also challenges the GM, because he doesn't really know in advance what it'll be. It's like having a virtual third group at the table that can send both player and GM plans askew. I like this although I don't use it a lot; it reduces predictability which can be fun. If players are clever, they might get something out of the RE that's useful to their main quest. RE's shouldn't be used inside plot-heavy areas like a small dungeon, but they're good overland to add some flavor to travel. Don't use them too much otherwise the plot gets diluted or traveling becomes hugely annoying.

If you use them in during travel, chances are good that the PCs can avoid the RE, if they made Perception checks early enough (and since EVERY guide tells players to buy Perception...) You shouldn't rely on these encounters to drain the PCs resources. Conversely, since it isn't necessary to win the encounter, it's more kosher to use high-CR monsters that the PCs are better off going around rather than through.

Note that a RE might introduce an interesting NPC or monster that you later on use as an intentionally built plot. In fact, after a few levels the PCs might decide to go looking for it because now they're confident they can deal with it.

The RE is again different from the independent encounter. The IE is something the GM does plan - it's not random, although the players don't need to know that. The IE does not have anything to do with the main plot; that is it's defining feature. It can have several functions:
- drain some daily resources; since you know beforehand what the IE will be you can plan this better than a RE.
- inject some flavor into the area, by selecting a good tone-setting IE.
- foreshadow a later plot/quest
- break the sensation that everything that happens has to do with the plot. A red herring, if you will.

Both REs and IEs can be other things than monsters. They're not necessarily hostile to the party. They can be natural hazards/obstacles, traveling NPCs that may have stuff to sell, an interesting local town festival, the plot of an NPC adventurer party that bumps into the PCs by accident...

And obviously we have plot encounters - the regularly scheduled plot elements.

---

So you've got these things. You certainly shouldn't tell (always) the players which one they're encountering. If the players conclude something is a RE, they tend to pay less attention to clues. They're still alert for danger of course, but they can be a bit dismissive because "the random encounter doesn't mean anything". On the other hand, if everything looks like a main plot encounter, the world doesn't look alive beyond the PCs' activities.

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