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Hi all - looking at the possibility of starting an AP campaign with my son, friend's son etc. Would need to be suitable for children aged 7. I'm not so worried about the mechanical stuff, I've found (using the Beginner Box and the stuff at the back of the Dark Waters Rising hardback) that I can handle the rules-crunch fine, and they pick up on a lot of stuff about the d20 system very quickly, but I'd like something that was mostly PG-rated, not much R stuff which I'd need to edit. A couple I've just bought and am wondering might be suitable are Skull & Shackles and Shattered Star; I was also wondering about Jade Regent? I'm currently running Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne for adult groups; both are on the edge of what I'd consider ok.
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Legacy of Fire is surprisingly appropriate, there are references to slavery, eating people, and harems...but that's pretty much it, explicitly anyway. Fun AP thematically, too.
I've only skimmed Reign of Winter, but it too looked fairly appropriate. Certainly as much so as CotCT, anyway. Also looks like lots of fun.
Serpent's Skull also seems fairly appropriate for the most part. Indeed, thinking about it, I'm not coming up with anything inappropriate except cannibalism and violence. I might well be forgetting something, but probably nothing too major. Maybe the least cool of the three, but still solidly neat, IMO.
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Jade Regent is fairly suitable. You might want to use the Ruby Phoenix Tournament add-on - it replaces a long torture-themed dungeon with a tournament event.
I'm running Reign of Winter now with my 2 kids (ages 10 and younger) and my wife, it is very kids friendly with just a few changes:)
others that are good for kids: Skull & Shackles (PIRATES!!!!!!!!!)
Serpent's Skull (tho it needs work with maps in book 3)
Carrion Crown (if its run with a Harry Potter-still-in-magic school-vibe, also switch book 4 with The Harrowing by Crystal Frasier)
Jade Regent (if they're into asian culture, samurais and ninjas)
Kingmaker (the most kid friendly of them all, but is sand-boxey)
thats the big dogs for kids right there (tho everyone will most likely vehemently disagree with me on Carrion Crown, i've done it for kids, it works!)
also Shattered Star isn't bad but would need some work in books 2 and maybe 3 and 5.
it depends on how comfortable you are with sexual depictions and such
Reign of Winter book 5 would be difficult to me...
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no OP, no
Skull & Shackles is not suitable for kids that young, straight out of the books
pretty much no matter what you pick, it is going to be on you to be responsible, read ahead and edit accordingly
S&S isn't going to be suitable straight out of the books, but with a little modification, it might just be the AP most likely to go over well with a young group. "You're pirates" can be quite a fun plot.
I second Mummy's Mask. It probably needs a little tweaking, but there is nothing in it so far that would cause serious issues. It might also inspire an interest in ancient Egypt!
I agree that there is no way that Skull 'n Shackles would be suitable out of the box. But it could work with some modifications. The NPCs are certainly cool, there are some good combats and players get to be pirates! I'd try to make the plunder and slavery a bit less brutal somehow though. I wouldn't want to whitewash it entirely, but I'd try for a feel that is a bit more original Pirates of the Carribbean than how the adventure is written at the moment.
Reign of Winter has a really fairy taleish feel. It's a but Grim, a bit Doctor Who and a bit twisted. I'd say it's more for 10 year olds than 7 year olds, but if you're okay with CotCT than this would be fine.
The first two parts of Serpent's Skull are also cool. It looses track in the third book but can be salavged easily. erge the middle books, play up the evil of
Well this has got me a bit interested in Serpent's Skull. :)
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As far as Books 1 & 2 go, Mummy's Mask is PG13 at its worst, PG elsewhere.
Book 1:
Fantasy Violence
UndeathBook 2:
Fantasy Violence
Undeath
Scary Imagery
'Ends justify the means' scenario
Book 3:
Fantasy ViolenceSo far, halfway through, Mummy's Mask is very appropriate for kids comfortable with PG to PG13 material. If the Brendan Fraiser Mummy movies (which coincidentally have a ton of fantasy and realistic violence and undead) don't scare them, then they will have no issues at all with the material in the first half of the AP.
Unfortunately I don't like Egyptian stuff myself, so Mummy's Mask is out. I hadn't thought about Kingmaker, but it's a possibility.
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Unfortunately I don't like Egyptian stuff myself, so Mummy's Mask is out. I hadn't thought about Kingmaker, but it's a possibility.
i didn't know it was possible to use "don't like" and "Egyptian stuff" in the same sentence.
still doesn't make sense! but to each their own:)
but yes do look into Kingmaker!
i've found pretty much anything with magical treasure,dragons, dinosaurs, pirates or Faeries (or all the above like S&S) goes over very well with kids:)
funny thing is my a~*@&~$ brother had my daughter and her cousin (also not his kid) watch Zombieland so now anything involving rising Zombies or such is off the table,
so no Mummy's Mask for me in the near future:(
Have you considered shorter adventures, such as the module line, or 3PP stuff?
We've done some shorter adventures already, and I'm thinking of using Crypt of the Everflame, but I was thinking about something longer term. Maybe Shattered Star's more episodic nature would work best, and the location fits with the Sandpoint-area stuff we've been doing.
As others have said, no to skull and shackles and no to shattered star.
The legacy of fire is very kid friendly (although it's for 3.5) and kingmaker is also very kid friendly (although dial down the kingdom building minigame rules because i really doubt that 7 year olds can handle spread sheets).
As others have said, no to skull and shackles and no to shattered star.
The legacy of fire is very kid friendly (although it's for 3.5) and kingmaker is also very kid friendly (although dial down the kingdom building minigame rules because i really doubt that 7 year olds can handle spread sheets).
Heh, yeah - I've learned to discard the minigames/subsystems even when running for adults, never mind kids! :) I find PF works well for kids though because I can keep track of eg their attack, damage & hit point numbers myself, and it plays quite fast at low level.
I don't feel terribly enthusiastic about Kingmaker though. Hmm, pity if Shattered Star's not useable.
also Shattered Star isn't bad but would need some work in books 2 and maybe 3 and 5.
it depends on how comfortable you are with sexual depictions and such
Paizo-level sexual depictions wouldn't be a problem I think, I'm not American (British), although I might be GMing for an American friend's kid as well so I suppose there might be an issue there. I'm more concerned about gore and horror, eg violence against innocents. From what I've seen of Paizo's stuff it has the usual US teen-market thing where sexual allusions are very light, but some of the art is incredibly gory, enough to make me go 'ick' sometimes. I might be more sensitive than my son about that, but I'd prefer to avoid extreme gore.
Examples of what I'm thinking of would be the Pathfinder comic #5, the demon exploding from the pregnant Lamashtu priestess (an earlier pic of her belly was pretty bad too), and a picture in I think the Advanced Player's Guide of the Inquisitor Iconic hitting some humanoid and it exploding in a shower of viscera.
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Well as far as I know most of the Player's Guides don't have icky stuff in them, and you won't need to worry about stuff behind the screen showing up unless you want it to.
The biggest thing is about how you run most games. I can run the same adventure for a group of adults and a group of children and it seem like a totally different game, because of things like how the NPCs act, and how graphic certain depictions are described. In some cases, really minor adjustments can be done on the fly. For example, in one adventure I wrote, there is a portion where you're trying to rescue some kids from a ghoul that kidnapped them. Depending on how dark you as the GM want things the ghoul could have already killed some of them, or hasn't gotten around to it yet.
If I was running it for children, I'd definitely go with the "hadn't got around to killing" route. While I'm not an expert on the APs (I tend to use more modules and/or work on my own games), I can say that what I have GMed of Curse of the Crimson Throne (first book), Jade Regent (first book), and Rise of the Runelords (first book) can be stripped of obvious adult themes simply with a change in the way you narrate the story and what portions you put emphasis on.
If it matters, I've been GMing for children for a long time. I started GMing at 13 and GMed for my fellows 13 and younger for lots of years. I GMed for my little brother when he was about 4 and continue to GM for him today (he's about to turn 16). My games online with my fellow adults tend to involve lots of dark elements (one example is where the party recently purchased a child prostitute to get her out of an exploitative situation, and is working to bring down an underground slavery operation behind it), but it's quite easy (and often refreshing) to shift to kid-mode when needed. :)
Personal opinion, without a HEAVY dose of modification, PF, and especially the AP's aren't really kid friendly or kid appropriate.
If you wish to modify all the adult material OUT of them...then ANY AP is good enough, but if you don't...I'd say make your own AP because all of them have stuff that would probably make me uncomfortable as an adult relating it to children.
In some places, some of the stuff being related to children in the APs may even be illegal to a degree so modifying them in those nations is actually a must.
The APs touch on some very seriously adult stuff and situations. I'd say in some areas, the violence and items is pretty extreme. For example, someone mentioned cannibalism in an AP with the idea that AP may be appropriate...for children 7 years and up...
Perhaps I'm a prude, but children that young really don't need to be facing the horrors of cannibalism...
That would be a prime example for me of something that is just a tad too adult for that age group and would need to be modified out along with anything that referred to it in that AP.
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Personal opinion, without a HEAVY dose of modification, PF, and especially the AP's aren't really kid friendly or kid appropriate.
Which APs? It varies quite a bit.
If you wish to modify all the adult material OUT of them...then ANY AP is good enough, but if you don't...I'd say make your own AP because all of them have stuff that would probably make me uncomfortable as an adult relating it to children.
Such as? I mean, some are clearly not appropriate (some parts of RotRL and almost all of WotR leap to mind)...but there's almost nothing more explicit than the violence inherent in the game in either Legacy of Fire or Serpent's Skull. Certainly nothing worse than some of the stuff in many fairy tales, such as Snow White or Little Red Riding Hood. Well, maybe one or two easy to cut things.
In some places, some of the stuff being related to children in the APs may even be illegal to a degree so modifying them in those nations is actually a must.
This...is probably true regarding sexual topics, but those are really pretty easy to avoid.
The APs touch on some very seriously adult stuff and situations. I'd say in some areas, the violence and items is pretty extreme. For example, someone mentioned cannibalism in an AP with the idea that AP may be appropriate...for children 7 years and up...
So...Hansel and Gretel is inappropriate for 7 year olds? Because that involves cannibalism.
Perhaps I'm a prude, but children that young really don't need to be facing the horrors of cannibalism...
See above regarding Hansel and Gretel. Given that, I find this attitude...somewhat extreme and unreasonable.
That would be a prime example for me of something that is just a tad too adult for that age group and would need to be modified out along with anything that referred to it in that AP.
Eh. The Lion King involves references to what might as well be cannibalism (intelligent animals eating each other). As do too many fairy tales to mention, even the sanitized versions. And if they play Pathfinder at all, they're likely to be killing stuff, having a tribe of cannibals as enemies doesn't seem any worse than that.
I'm currently running Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne for adult groups; both are on the edge of what I'd consider ok.
Honestly speaking, if Runelords is anywhere near the bar for acceptability for you, almost every other AP should be fine. That sucker gets dark.
Particularly good choices that come to mind would include Legacy of Fire above everything else, followed by Jade Regent, and then maybe Kingmaker... but there's a fair bit of bookkeeping and moral ambiguity that might bore away a younger crowd there.
Also I wish I'd heard about that JR substitution when I first ran it, that dungeon really broke my group just with how long it drags on for.
Well as far as I know most of the Player's Guides don't have icky stuff in them, and you won't need to worry about stuff behind the screen showing up unless you want it to.
The biggest thing is about how you run most games. I can run the same adventure for a group of adults and a group of children and it seem like a totally different game, because of things like how the NPCs act, and how graphic certain depictions are described. In some cases, really minor adjustments can be done on the fly. For example, in one adventure I wrote, there is a portion where you're trying to rescue some kids from a ghoul that kidnapped them. Depending on how dark you as the GM want things the ghoul could have already killed some of them, or hasn't gotten around to it yet.
If I was running it for children, I'd definitely go with the "hadn't got around to killing" route. While I'm not an expert on the APs (I tend to use more modules and/or work on my own games), I can say that what I have GMed of Curse of the Crimson Throne (first book), Jade Regent (first book), and Rise of the Runelords (first book) can be stripped of obvious adult themes simply with a change in the way you narrate the story and what portions you put emphasis on.
If it matters, I've been GMing for children for a long time. I started GMing at 13 and GMed for my fellows 13 and younger for lots of years. I GMed for my little brother when he was about 4 and continue to GM for him today (he's about to turn 16). My games online with my fellow adults tend to involve lots of dark elements (one example is where the party recently purchased a child prostitute to get her out of an exploitative situation, and is working to bring down an underground slavery operation behind it), but it's quite easy (and often refreshing) to shift to kid-mode when needed. :)
I don't use a GM screen; I do find art more visceral than description and my son likes to see all the art, so that is a major factor.
I agree that a lot can be done in presentation; I certainly wouldn't consider a threat of cannibalism per se to be particularly bad, whereas people being eaten on-screen would be IMO. With the Graul homestead in RoTRL I'd say there were human bones, but not specifically children's bones I think - but I don't think it would bother my son who is very robust, really this is more about me and what I'm comfy with.
The story of Hansel & Gretel with the witch being burned in the oven is kind of in that edge case area to me, I think that can be presented ok as in The Wizard of Oz where
In some places, some of the stuff being related to children in the APs may even be illegal to a degree so modifying them in those nations is actually a must.
I can't think of anything I've seen in any Paizo AP that could conceivably be illegal in any Western nation, even the USA AFAIK.
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I don't use a GM screen; I do find art more visceral than description and my son likes to see all the art, so that is a major factor.
Well I meant "behind the screen" metaphorically. I don't use a GM screen either, but I meant that most of the roughest stuff is only the literary bits that you read as the GM. For example, in Curse of the Crimson Throne...
However this fact doesn't actually show up in the game, and there's no artwork for it in the book (just a picture of him and his gator). In a similar fashion, in Rise of The Runelords...
Thank god there's no illustration of this fun tidbit in the book, because I rather like my eyes and would rather not wrench them from their sockets in response to seeing such a horror rivaling that of a Lovecraftian mythos.
I agree that a lot can be done in presentation; I certainly wouldn't consider a threat of cannibalism per se to be particularly bad, whereas people being eaten on-screen would be IMO. With the Graul homestead in RoTRL I'd say there were human bones, but not specifically children's bones I think - but I don't think it would bother my son who is very robust, really this is more about me and what I'm comfy with.
That's very honest of you and I appreciate it. I know where you're coming from too. You never want to scare or damage a kid mentally. Though to be honest, I think kids are often a bit more well-headed than people give 'em credit for.
For example, my parents made allowed me to watch quite a few R-rated movies as a child, and I mean as a small child. When I was 5 years old, my favorite movies were Terminator II, Aliens, Sword and the Stone, and Sleeping Beauty. The catch was, my parents made it very clear that all of it was make-believe, pretend, not real, and made using special movie effects, and that none of it was anything to actually be afraid of.
The funny thing is, as a result, when I was hanging out with other friends my age later on, I wasn't scared of monster movies and stuff, and I've never really cared for gore-movies so much as I like thrillers that play with your psychologically (chainsaws and blood don't interest me). I wondered why other kids had horrible nightmares if they saw a scary movie, while I had dreams about having a pet Xenomorph.
when my very young daughter wanted to see pirates of the caribbean i made sure we watched the making of.. Video on the dvd
when my very young daughter wanted to see pirates of the caribbean i made sure we watched the making of.. Video on the dvd
Good call. ;)
Also I wish I'd heard about that JR substitution when I first ran it, that dungeon really broke my group just with how long it drags on for.
Are you talking about the
I can't think of anything I've seen in any Paizo AP that could conceivably be illegal in any Western nation, even the USA AFAIK.
In some places, some of the stuff being related to children in the APs may even be illegal to a degree so modifying them in those nations is actually a must.
Be glad you live in the USA if you do, freedom of speech, even though some feel there are some restrictions in the US, is actually pretty free in relation to some places.
The US (and much of North America) has more stringent rules on sexuality, but seem far more open to violence and having it for open viewing than many other nations. In many places outside N.A and much of (far?) Beyond Western (and Northern) Europe, they allow you to make judgement calls around your own children, but if their friends are involved, and you cover certain topics, you can be prosecuted for criminal acts.
Depending on the approach, they can be seen very similarly to as if you were discussing doing such acts (whether you were going to or not).
There are topics in the US that are like this as well but normally dealing with sexually pornographic materials instead of graphically violent pornographic material (in the US and some western influenced nations pornography has become more in line with the sexual side and ignores the violence sides of the coin), however, that does not mean the rest of the world uses ONLY that definition in it's cautions and laws.
Not everyplace is the US, and the protections against violence against children differ in application and adherence from nation to nation as well as interpretation.
Actually, even in the US there are some differences even between the states. There are topics that you may discuss with ease in California, but could be reported to child protection agencies in Utah or Oklahoma or other locations.
Be glad you live in the USA if you do, freedom of speech, even though some feel there are some restrictions in the US, is actually pretty free in relation to some places.
I live in the UK. We have much less free speech in general than in the US (people go to jail for speech crimes fairly often), but sexual mores are looser, especially depictions of sex & nudity without violence are more ok. We don't have things like the US nipple ban (ban on depiction of female nipples in art accessible to children in some US states), for instance, which would make 'Page 3' illegal.
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Popping on late in the thread just because I've been in this boat:
- Ran Curse of the Crimson Throne for my kids when they were 7 and 10. Other than seriously toning down Laori Vaus when they were paying attention (much to my disappointment) and not going into detail as to why Raksashas are so bad, I had no issues.
- Ran Rise of the Runelords in front of my kids, and even had them play the goblins in Books 1 and 2. On the other hand, we had to play pretty much all of Book 3 when they were out of earshot, so I'd give it a thumbs-down. You can't do Book 3 with kids. Too much.
- Started Shattered Star with an all-kids group. Unfortunately, Book 1's investigations proved a little too hard for them; they just couldn't focus on the plot thread. So I didn't hit anything kid-unfriendly, just kid-uninteresting.
- Running Serpent's Skull with an all-kids group. They're getting frustrated at being stuck on a desert island, but at least it all makes sense to them, and, "Hey, a wild animal just ate our friend! Let's kill it!" is right along their plotline level.
- Played through Carrion Crown. Surprisingly, as an homage to horror films, I think you could pull it off, but the plot is so thinly-connected that kids might get frustrated. "Wait a minute! Why are we trying to find Dracula again!?!?" It also has a lot of, "We're going to kill a PC in a completely-unforeseen way just to show that we can," moments. Kids would get frustrated at the random lethal traps and ambushes.
So basically the only places I really found out-and-out kid unfriendly were books 3 and 5 of RotRL (the Grauls and the wing of Lust) and the various, "You made a mistake, now you're dead!" moments of CC. Everything else I could tone down to my level of comfort with my kids.
SUMMARY:
- 3 full APs (CotCT, RotRL, CC)
-- ONE worked well with slight "omissions" (CotCT)
-- RotRL has too much graphic stuff in 2 modules
-- CC has too many "kill you for the heck of it" moments
- 6 started APs (Kingmaker, Second Darkness, Shattered Star, Wrath of the Righteous, Council of Thieves, and Serpent's Skull)
-- ONE has worked well so far (Serpent's Skull)
-- Two lost the kids' interest (Shattered Star, Council of Thieves)
-- I worry about Kingmaker because of the kingdom-building
-- I worry about Second Darkness because of the complex relationships between the various crime lords in books 1 and 2
-- I think Wrath of the Righteous is awesome, but I'm only in book 1. Maybe it gets darker. Seems like it's playable, but I defer to others.
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When I was 5 years old, my favorite movies were Terminator II, Aliens, Sword and the Stone, and Sleeping Beauty.
You were... 5... when T2 came out?
Gods I'm old!
EDIT: Well, at least I hadn't graduated from grad school in '91...
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When I was 5 years old, my favorite movies were Terminator II, Aliens, Sword and the Stone, and Sleeping Beauty.You were... 5... when T2 came out?
Gods I'm old!
EDIT: Well, at least I hadn't graduated from grad school in '91...
Well I was actually 4 when it came out, but I was five when it was my favorite movie because I saw it on VHS and not in the theater.
Well I was actually 4 when it came out, but I was five when it was my favorite movie because I saw it on VHS and not in the theater.When I was 5 years old, my favorite movies were Terminator II, Aliens, Sword and the Stone, and Sleeping Beauty.You were... 5... when T2 came out?
Gods I'm old!
EDIT: Well, at least I hadn't graduated from grad school in '91...
Yeah. Thanks! That helps. A lot.
I think I hear my knees creaking. Gotta go!|
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When I was 5 years old, my favorite movies were Terminator II, Aliens, Sword and the Stone, and Sleeping Beauty.You were... 5... when T2 came out?
Gods I'm old!
EDIT: Well, at least I hadn't graduated from grad school in '91...
...but you were in grad school when T2 came out?
Me too!
(Offers high-five.)
Well, after all that I started running Wrath of the Righteous for my nearly-7 son Bill yesterday! :) He loves the WoTR minis we have so that was the one. I only have Book 1, I'm planning to run that with him and see how it goes. He's playing solo as Valeros the Fighter, starting at 3rd level with the three tagalong PCs. I made the transsexual character Anevia a natural born woman and Irabeth's squire, albeit clearly obsessed with Irabeth. Bill liked the idea of Irabeth being the child of a happily married orc/human couple, so we kept that. I'm thinking my Irabeth will be basically asexual, whatever her gender preference(s) or fondness for Anevia might be she's much too committed to the Crusade to be worrying with romantic love, sex or marriage.
Popping on late in the thread just because I've been in this boat:
- Ran Curse of the Crimson Throne for my kids when they were 7 and 10. Other than seriously toning down Laori Vaus when they were paying attention (much to my disappointment) and not going into detail as to why Raksashas are so bad, I had no issues.
- Ran Rise of the Runelords in front of my kids, and even had them play the goblins in Books 1 and 2. On the other hand, we had to play pretty much all of Book 3 when they were out of earshot, so I'd give it a thumbs-down. You can't do Book 3 with kids. Too much.
- Started Shattered Star with an all-kids group. Unfortunately, Book 1's investigations proved a little too hard for them; they just couldn't focus on the plot thread. So I didn't hit anything kid-unfriendly, just kid-uninteresting.
- Running Serpent's Skull with an all-kids group. They're getting frustrated at being stuck on a desert island, but at least it all makes sense to them, and, "Hey, a wild animal just ate our friend! Let's kill it!" is right along their plotline level.
- Played through Carrion Crown. Surprisingly, as an homage to horror films, I think you could pull it off, but the plot is so thinly-connected that kids might get frustrated. "Wait a minute! Why are we trying to find Dracula again!?!?" It also has a lot of, "We're going to kill a PC in a completely-unforeseen way just to show that we can," moments. Kids would get frustrated at the random lethal traps and ambushes.
So basically the only places I really found out-and-out kid unfriendly were books 3 and 5 of RotRL (the Grauls and the wing of Lust) and the various, "You made a mistake, now you're dead!" moments of CC. Everything else I could tone down to my level of comfort with my kids.
SUMMARY:
- 3 full APs (CotCT, RotRL, CC)
-- ONE worked well with slight "omissions" (CotCT)
-- RotRL has too much graphic stuff in 2 modules
-- CC has too many "kill you for the heck of it" moments- 6 started APs (Kingmaker, Second Darkness, Shattered Star,...
Just to say this was a great post and very helpful, thanks!
As mentioned before, Legacy of Fire seems pretty easy to hold a kid's interest, and no really objectionable content I can think of.
Reign of Winter is literally about Hansel & Gretel level, candy house and everything. Although you do get to see that Baba Gaga was generally more successful. I've actually read Baba's background to my eight-year-old nephew, and he enjoyed it a lot.
Also remember that as DM, you have total editorial and censorship privileges over the content of an AP. If you worry that something may not be appropriate for your kids, DON'T READ IT TO THEM.
As mentioned before, Legacy of Fire seems pretty easy to hold a kid's interest, and no really objectionable content I can think of.
Reign of Winter is literally about Hansel & Gretel level, candy house and everything. Although you do get to see that Baba Gaga was generally more successful. I've actually read Baba's background to my eight-year-old nephew, and he enjoyed it a lot.
Also remember that as DM, you have total editorial and censorship privileges over the content of an AP. If you worry that something may not be appropriate for your kids, DON'T READ IT TO THEM.
So thats why my kids keep having nightmares about getting eaten by Hillbilly ogres!
thats the last time i read them Hookmountain massacre before bed, maybe Wake of the Watcher would be better....
Well, after all that I started running Wrath of the Righteous for my nearly-7 son Bill yesterday! :) He loves the WoTR minis we have so that was the one. I only have Book 1, I'm planning to run that with him and see how it goes. He's playing solo as Valeros the Fighter, starting at 3rd level with the three tagalong PCs. I made the transsexual character Anevia a natural born woman and Irabeth's squire, albeit clearly obsessed with Irabeth. Bill liked the idea of Irabeth being the child of a happily married orc/human couple, so we kept that. I'm thinking my Irabeth will be basically asexual, whatever her gender preference(s) or fondness for Anevia might be she's much too committed to the Crusade to be worrying with romantic love, sex or marriage.
Be wary and read ahead. WotR gets very heavy. There are situations at several points that I found very tough to read-- and I've seen a lot. The demon-run bordello in Book 6 is particularly disturbing.
Be wary and read ahead. WotR gets very heavy. There are situations at several points that I found very tough to read-- and I've seen a lot. The demon-run bordello in Book 6 is particularly disturbing.
Heh heh - if we ever get that far I'd expect some heavy editing, yup!
So far after a couple short sessions we're still in the starter caves, I'm running it pretty light & loose. There was a fun bit where he rolled a '20' on an Animal Handling check with the wounded snake, and ended up with a new serpent friend tagging along. :) Been having fun with the NPCs, especially cowardly Horgus Gwerm. And since I thought the four pages of Anaviel/Irabeth was written a lot like s/Lash fanfic for some TV show character, with Irabeth the canon character and Anaviel the author-insertion, I made 'Squire Anaviel' into a slightly creepy obsessive 'fan' of Irabeth, constantly going on about how 'her knight' Irabeth is the Greatest Paladin EVAR... >:)
Be wary and read ahead. WotR gets very heavy. There are situations at several points that I found very tough to read-- and I've seen a lot. The demon-run bordello in Book 6 is particularly disturbing.Heh heh - if we ever get that far I'd expect some heavy editing, yup!
So far after a couple short sessions we're still in the starter caves, I'm running it pretty light & loose. There was a fun bit where he rolled a '20' on an Animal Handling check with the wounded snake, and ended up with a new serpent friend tagging along. :) Been having fun with the NPCs, especially cowardly Horgus Gwerm. And since I thought the four pages of Anaviel/Irabeth was written a lot like s/Lash fanfic for some TV show character, with Irabeth the canon character and Anaviel the author-insertion, I made 'Squire Anaviel' into a slightly creepy obsessive 'fan' of Irabeth, constantly going on about how 'her knight' Irabeth is the Greatest Paladin EVAR... >:)
That does sound cute. I am curious why you thought their story needed to be changed. I genuinely really like the characters as-written (but I also like my tough-as-nails fighters to have a softer side, so that might be the difference)
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Honestly, I liked the presentation of a happy, stable, good-aligned, same-sex couple in the game. If I ever run Wrath of the Righteous, I won't be changing the relationship between Irabeth and Anaviel or their backstories at all.
As for the desire to "protect" children from knowing about sexual minorities: Kids accept things if you present it matter-of-fact and age-appropriate.
One of my kid's best friends has two moms. Our kids met in kindergarten, and our families have become pretty close as well. At the time, I simply explained, "Most families have a mother and a father, but some aren't like that. Some families have only a father or a mother; some have two moms, and some have two dads." It's not an issue, and has never been.
One of my cousins transitioned when my kid was 8. Again, "Uncle Roy is now Aunt Roberta. Please call her that now," was really all the explanation that was needed at the time. (My kid's 15 now, and understands the complexity surrounding transitioning.)
there certainly isnt anything in wrath of the righteous that kids dont see watching Glee:)
Well, in general *any* AP can be made kid-friendly by avoiding anything you believe the kids will be uncomfortable with. It's more a question of, "Does this AP still flow smoothly when I remove all of the questionable content?"
For example, Rise of the Runelords has an essential plot point that takes place in the Wing of Lust of the Runeforge. If you are uncomfortable explaining the difference between "Love" and "Lust" to your 10-year-old, you would have to make significant on-the-fly changes to the AP, so it's "kid-inappropriate" in the sense that I can see many parents uncomfortable enough with the content that it would require major changes. The whole Hook Mountain Massacre book can be toned down, but you'd have to skip many of the read-aloud descriptions, and explaining Myriana (one of my favorite parts of the entire AP) might be hard.
On the other hand, Curse of the Crimson Throne can easily be adjusted, as long as Laori behaves herself a bit. (My (then) 11-year-old developed a major crush on her.)
So my focus was, "Which APs would I run for kids with the fewest revisions?" At the moment, CotCT wins hands-down.
On the other hand, my kids' game has expanded to 5 players (2 10-year-olds and 3 13-year-olds) and I was utterly amazed when they all performed a detailed autopsy on a yellow musk zombie trying to figure out what had killed her. Far more graphic depictions of human dissection than I would have expected for 10-year-olds.
That does sound cute. I am curious why you thought their story needed to be changed. I genuinely really like the characters as-written (but I also like my tough-as-nails fighters to have a softer side, so that might be the difference)
Irabeth in particular felt 'off' to me, as if there was an original character plus an overlay of something else. On reflection I decided it reminded me of fanfic, where an author takes canon character (here, brave & virtuous paladin character) and puts them in a decidedly odd sexual situation/orientation - as written Irabeth is (presumably?) sexually attracted to Anevia, without regard for Anevia's gender or biological sex - that felt odd to me. I also didn't think it seemed right that Irabeth would have thrown her life away but-for-Anevia upon discovering her parents' death - it made her look weak, and I wanted Irabeth to be a strong character. Maybe if her parents had been butchered in their beds by orc-hating humans, I could see her being really upset, but they died on crusade, swords in hand against the demons - such a fate is surely hardly an uncommon fate for crusaders against the Worldwound, and presumably Irabeth's likely fate too, as far as she knows! I'd think grim stoicism was more in order.
More prosaically, my nearly-7-yr-old is ok with the general concept of lesbian couples, he knows several via his mother's Rugby team, but I definitely don't fancy dealing with transsexualism. And I'm not sure if I want the crusader knights to be getting married at all, at least not while actively in the field. Whether they can get married to someone of the same sex is another issue. I decided to keep Irabeth chaste, albeit she probably does love her odd squire Anevia. (I'll see how it develops in play - for all I know the pair of them might get married 'on screen'! But it depends what we're both comfy with. Right now it's more of a Xena/Gabrielle thing.)
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That does sound cute. I am curious why you thought their story needed to be changed. I genuinely really like the characters as-written (but I also like my tough-as-nails fighters to have a softer side, so that might be the difference)Irabeth in particular felt 'off' to me, as if there was an original character plus an overlay of something else. On reflection I decided it reminded me of fanfic, where an author takes canon character (here, brave & virtuous paladin character) and puts them in a decidedly odd sexual situation/orientation - as written Irabeth is (presumably?) sexually attracted to Anevia, without regard for Anevia's gender or biological sex - that felt odd to me. I also didn't think it seemed right that Irabeth would have thrown her life away but-for-Anevia upon discovering her parents' death - it made her look weak, and I wanted Irabeth to be a strong character. Maybe if her parents had been butchered in their beds by orc-hating humans, I could see her being really upset, but they died on crusade, swords in hand against the demons - such a fate is surely hardly an uncommon fate for crusaders against the Worldwound, and presumably Irabeth's likely fate too, as far as she knows! I'd think grim stoicism was more in order.
More prosaically, my nearly-7-yr-old is ok with the general concept of lesbian couples, he knows several via his mother's Rugby team, but I definitely don't fancy dealing with transsexualism. And I'm not sure if I want the crusader knights to be getting married at all, at least not while actively in the field. Whether they can get married to someone of the same sex is another issue. I decided to keep Irabeth chaste, albeit she probably does love her odd squire Anevia. (I'll see how it develops in play - for all I know the pair of them might get married 'on screen'! But it depends what we're both comfy with. Right now it's more of a Xena/Gabrielle thing.)
And that is absolutely fine.
Don't let people dictate what you do with your kids (and not theirs).
Glad to hear you are able to adjust the AP as you wish and are having fun (at least it sounds like you guys are having fun) playing the game!
My own problems would deal more with the depictions of some of the demons (especially later on), but every family has the touchy and non-touchy points, as well as their own experiences and wisdom on what they wish to do in raising their own kids. Every kid is different as well, and what could give one nightmares, would be fine with others (for example, we saw a trailer for King Kong (PJ's version) and while my daughter was fine with it, my little boy got nightmares from the Ape. That was just the trailer, figured we wouldn't let him see anything else similar.
So it seems excellent that you are having fun and spending time with your kids doing something both of you enjoy doing (once again, at least from the sounds of it). So many parents don't spend any time with their children. To be able to spend time with them and make it enjoyable is a double win!
Hope it keeps going well with the AP!