What exactly is needed to preform an intimidate in a creature by the rules exactly. I've heard quite a few things that seem to go outside the raw, and I would like to know limitations, and the basic necessities.
The same with demoralize too would be great.
I am currently discussing with a dm on this matter, and I won't reveal the positions taken by which party, but I'll simply write information, and hopefully someone can clear it up.
1. Do you need line if sight (you to target and/or target to you) to use intimidate to change the targets attitude? If so, then is that sight on the limitation if maximum 30 of distance apart?
2. When performing an intimidate to change an attitude of a target, must your intimidate be verbally conveying a message if a physical that onto the target? Murder, or harm needed to even work, or can lesser kinds if threats, gestures, etc be sufficient?
These questions may seem obvious to some, but others posting about it could be very beneficial for forwarding this thread for analysis.
Fun fact: I sleep walked to pick up my phone and typed this all out. Upon hitting the submit I regained awareness, and was shocked I could articulate things like this while in such a state. Woah
This is a case where I am glad there is a grey area. RP should play a part of it. As always, the effort counts for a lot.
RP aside and severe circumstances, I would generally require line of sight. I would prefer to determine range case by case, but 30 feet sounds pretty good.
Demoralize via Intimidate
Success: If you are successful, the target is shaken for one round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten an opponent this way if it is within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you. Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.
So, RAW you do not need to see them, but they need to see and hear you.
Influencing takes 10 rounds, so a lot of the combat limitations are irrelevant. While in reality you can intimidate someone using completely non verbal means you must still communicate what it is that you want from them. I see no reason why a written note could not suffice.
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I'm imagining a Wizard of Oz sort of situation.
The party sees what they believe to be "The Wizard", and hears what they believe to be "The Wizard", and they're intimidated by what they see and hear, but the man behind the curtain doesn't necessarily need to see or hear them.
Or the proverbial "approaching shadow" from down the corridor.
Anyone show me exactly where in the skill it says anything about the NOT DEMORALIZE part where intimidate needs sight to cause it's effects? This is something I need.
Demoralize is clearly subject to those conditions, but the skill otherwise I'm having issue proving this at all. Someone can't intimidate through a telephone?
Fear effects really an issue when dealing with creatures immune, and if so, is that only with demoralize? Mindless creatures also immune?
Do you need line of sight to use Diplomacy?
How about Bluff?
Sense Motive?
This, again, is going to be one of those open-ended discussions that doesn't necessarily have a right or wrong answer. Situations will vary.
Make a call, and move on.
It sounds like you have a very lively gaming group.
Just like to be fair and fulfill expectations when people come expecting rules to be ran by the book.
I am staying neutral on what my position is as best I can, but I am looking for proof that you absolutely need line of sight.
Exact example as far as my knowledge contains is this.
Devil is in a room, and is down in a pit being contained there by some magic. It's not confirmed what is in the pit, but dialog is being done between PC and NPC once they enter the room. PC interacts to intimidate and is told line of sight is needed, and that the devil needs to feel threatened. Due to the circumstance that the devil feels safe in the pit, both parties cannot see one another, are within 30 feet, and to threaten him would to be to release him, AND that the devil just feels confident that they don't fear the PC, the Devil can't be intimidated.
It is argued that you just need to at any distance just communicate your intimidate to the creature, and then beat their DC. Simple as that, but the skill is looked at to exactly and rules are pointed out. Now it's an issue of where in the rules are these things reflecting clarity on the positions.
So, in that example, should the creature have been intimidated, or at least should the player have been entitled to roll his check to beat the DC?
Also, we made a call or rather the GM did, and we moved on. Now it's post game, and we are figuring things out from when in game happens we don't have to just hastily make a call that could be correct. Having a clear understanding of the rules to meet all expectations is the responsible thing to do.
It's literally written on the published booklet? So this can all be resolved by simply reading the published book, and seeing blatantly something saying "the devil in this pit does NOT need to see the players to be intimidated"?
Can anyone confirm this so I can simply resolve this issue? I think that we'll have to do something to account for this, since it sounds like something important was missed in regards to extracting information from the devil.
Also, in terms of general rule. What is the general rule for how a normal intimidate is dealt with. I see the line of sight being applied to demoralize only.
i Have been a DM for thirty years. This is simple. For intimidation to work you must have line of sight and speak their language. intimidation is also about body launguage, if they can't see or understand you they will probably just laugh at you.What exactly is needed to preform an intimidate in a creature by the rules exactly. I've heard quite a few things that seem to go outside the raw, and I would like to know limitations, and the basic necessities.
The same with demoralize too would be great.
I am currently discussing with a dm on this matter, and I won't reveal the positions taken by which party, but I'll simply write information, and hopefully someone can clear it up.
1. Do you need line if sight (you to target and/or target to you) to use intimidate to change the targets attitude? If so, then is that sight on the limitation if maximum 30 of distance apart?
2. When performing an intimidate to change an attitude of a target, must your intimidate be verbally conveying a message if a physical that onto the target? Murder, or harm needed to even work, or can lesser kinds if threats, gestures, etc be sufficient?
These questions may seem obvious to some, but others posting about it could be very beneficial for forwarding this thread for analysis.
I am concerned with the rules of the game and not home rules. The rules say you beat a DC and it works. Can you support your claims and point it out clearly? I need to be able to have it clearly be stated so to convince one of the parties. One says it clearly says it, and the other says they're just confusing demoralize. It looks like they're confusing demoralize, but they say they aren't and that the other party should read the entire skill. Help me out here.
Nefreet, I'll message you for specific details on this if you don't mind.
Nefreet, I misread what you wrote and thought you wrote that it doesn't need to see you. I apologize for my mistake.
Creature A is in the darkness, where no one can see
Creature B is also in the darkness, but elsewhere, and inside of a box, 35 ft away from creature A
Creature A speaks to Creature B, and they both understand one another
Creature A says things that would be considered to be intimidating creature B
"You like having company around, right? Would be a shame if you no longer had anyone around anymore to talk to you. Maybe I would leave for some reason and never came back. Maybe... something would happen to you, without me here to even look after you. You know... Something..."
Does creature A get a intimidation check on creature B?
Creature B would have a total DC of 10+their HD+Wis Modifier, right?
Creature A would apply their full intimidation skill bonus but anything circumstantial like sight based bonus' wouldn't apply
Is this all correct, and if not, what isn't correct, and why?
i Have been a DM for thirty years. This is simple. For intimidation to work you must have line of sight and speak their language. intimidation is also about body launguage, if they can't see or understand you they will probably just laugh at you.
Depends how, I would think. I'd feel pretty intimidated by having a tiger snarl in my face. (But maybe I implicitly understand 'snarl'.) You don't need to understand the words to know someone's shouting at you and waving a fist in your face.