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[Please be forewarned, this post is pretty spoilish for those that haven't played We Be Goblins Too!]
I have a situation that I'm sure will come up from time to time that I was hoping to get some experienced insight on. I completely understand that the scenarios/modules are to be run AS WRITTEN. And, I do that...I'm quite careful about that, but like anyone I've overlooked stuff or forgot something (like in WBG Too, see below).
I've played WBG Too once and it took 5 hours to complete (and I know scenarios are allowed to take that long) and I've just GM'd it and IT took 5 hours. I even forewarned the players that it could run long. I noted that the game is all about role playing and to play it up, but in the back of your minds keep track of time.
Some of the players seemed a little put-off that it ran 5 hours. To be honest, I was not thrilled about that either. Being new to GM'ing, I might have incidentally added 15 to (at worst) 30 minutes to the play time due to figuring out various rules that I was not familiar with or tactics that needed to be discussed.
Keep in mind, there are something like 8 possible encounters for the players and that's AFTER they do the 3 dares during the moot. My players did 7 out of the 8 encounters.
So, I had a thought. If I were to GM this module again (and, being a free RPG day module, it's only for 1 PP), I might "break" the rules a bit and tailor down the module slightly to (hopefully) decrease the necessary play time.
The Stirge Stomp can take forever. My players actually had 2 characters left to kill every last one of the 12 Stirges....lots of combat rounds. How about stating that the players only need to take out 6 of the Stirges to complete the dare and they have the option to go on if they wish? Technically, the players can simply finish after 6 anyway and just jump into the bog to disqualify themselves and end the dare anyway.
I don't think I can do anything with the pie dare, but that one can take quite awhile as well.
For the next day, I think the Princess Cracklin' encounter (in the upside down boat) can be removed entirely. Maybe just have Squealy Nord inside the boat for them to search and discover.
And, leave everything else as is. That stuff alone should remove at least half an hour of play.
What's interesting is that we ended right at 5 hours, but I goofed and misplayed the last encounter and essentially made it much easier for them. Pa Munchmeat should have had Fire Resistance going. Well, I noted in my head that he took the potion but forgot to apply it during play and the players basically wiped him out with fire. That encounter could have taken a bit longer and perhaps been more deadly had I not overlooked that. That would have exacerbated the time situation and possible player frustration.
I've definitely played other scenarios up to 5 hours and had one very frustratingly long 6 hour experience (which I would think the GM shouldn't have allowed to occur). Is it kosher to make some decisions to ensure the scenarios shouldn't go much past 4 hours? This assumes that significant portions or key areas of the scenario remain unaffected.
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There should be an encounter that's labelled as an "optional" encounter, which means you leave it out if your game is going longer than anticipated. However, normally the note that it's an optional encounter comes up 2-3 pages after the actual encounter! Just be sure to note which one is the optional encounter when you're doing your prep work.
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They don't HAVE to fight all of the encounters at the farm...they just need to defeat/drive off Pa IIRC.
Also, the timing on the front end stuff is completely to the GM to pace really. Try and keep things moving so you can finish it in 2 hours, and that would leave 2 hours for the combat part. The stirge stomp is completely up to the characters on how long its going to take. That part for me has never ran much more than half hour or so before they get pushed in or fallen in to the creek...
YMMV, but it's a rough one to cut much out of IMO, as it's got a lot of flavor going for it.
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My players took less than 2 hours to complete the first part (moot) yet the next 7 encounters ate up the next 3 hours. I did try to move it along as much as possible. Perhaps there are areas that I could tighten up. But, at the time, I consciously did not let things drag...yet they did.
Did they not try to fireball the house? I heard a lot of groups do that, and it combined all the encounters. When that happened for us, it was over quickly after that.
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My players took less than 2 hours to complete the first part (moot) yet the next 7 encounters ate up the next 3 hours. I did try to move it along as much as possible. Perhaps there are areas that I could tighten up. But, at the time, I consciously did not let things drag...yet they did.Did they not try to fireball the house? I heard a lot of groups do that, and it combined all the encounters. When that happened for us, it was over quickly after that.
My first group was out of fireballs by the end of the first bird challenge...we don't need no stinkin' bow! Fried pigeon for all!
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Yes, they did want to burn the house down.
Actually, when I played, our group did that but I thought it would make whatever was about to happen much more difficult, and I was correct. Pa came out on the patio, eventually fell through, the battle went on and on. This was after we went into the house to take out Guffy.
As a GM, I have a hard time trying to figure out the dynamics of what that means to burn down the house. It's in a swamp, things are damp. Would the wood just catch that easily, even with a fireball, with no real accelerants?
My players wanted to throw embers from the burning boat (oh yeah, I forgot to mention they decided to burn the boat after killing Princess Cracklin' and Squealy Nord was still in there AND they decided to go in and see what pig was squealing (and dying) in there. I had to make up rules off the top of my head for going into a burning upside down boat!
Anyways, I told them that the embers would not catch just by throwing them on the patio. The module gives no stats for trying to burn down the house. Does everything just run out and attack the PC's at the same time? That's how I'd run it! That could be an easy TPK and a dumb mistake on the part of the PC's if they didn't clear out the main house first.
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When I played, for the pie scene, I played Poog and he negative channeled and killed all the eagles and some of the spectators. BUT, even after that, there was round after round of Fortitude saves (for burning) and attempts to get untied and having players that were out to go around and untie everyone. It still didn't end the encounter that quickly.
My first group was out of fireballs by the end of the first bird challenge...we don't need no stinkin' bow! Fried pigeon for all!My players took less than 2 hours to complete the first part (moot) yet the next 7 encounters ate up the next 3 hours. I did try to move it along as much as possible. Perhaps there are areas that I could tighten up. But, at the time, I consciously did not let things drag...yet they did.Did they not try to fireball the house? I heard a lot of groups do that, and it combined all the encounters. When that happened for us, it was over quickly after that.
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Thanks "grandpoobah". This experience has been all online via VTT. Plus, this module is only for 4 people and there are no optional encounters (except for the PC's choices in the moot and how many of them participate in the first 2 parts of it). Hence, my quandary about creatively cutting a couple of non-essentials down or out. There were no situations where we were stuck for any extraordinary length of time trying to figure out a rule, maybe a few minutes.
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To add to GrandPoobah's great list...
8. Try to understand how long your estimated run time is, and make sure your players know what it is before the game starts. For example, I know that my sessions tend to last around six hours. If a player has a hard-stop four hours in, it is unlikely that my session will be done by the time he has to go. It's a good idea for both of us to be aware of this.
By the way, it's important for the players to make the table aware of their hard-stops before the game begins.
Also... online sessions almost always take longer than in-person sessions, for various reasons. A good guideline is to multiply the estimated session length by 1.5 if your game has voice-chat, by 2 or more if at least one person doesn't have voice-chat.
-Matt
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I agree with the poopah, most lost time is lost in combat, GM's should be ready to take action not think over tactics to long, or look up lots of spells, etc. That stuff all should be done prior to the session.
As a GM I stick to the written tactics so I just to the tactics and take that action, if the tactics are no longer approiate, the baddies attack the nearest person, or if there is a spell list start at the highest and go down the list until I see an approriate spell and use it. I don't review the whole list each time a bad guy goes.
If the game is running long anounce to the players who is on deck and they should be ready. If they don't know what they want to do on their turn give them about 30 secs to make up their mind if they still don't know put them on delay automaticly until they are ready in the interest of time. Be mindful if putting them on a delay if it might cause player death in those cases play exactly the way things are intended to be played, (no short cuts).
If a combat is decided and the players are just mopping up, go ahead and call it saying something like you wipe these guys out before they get to go again.
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As a rule, I say scenarios should be expected to last around 5 hours. It used to be 5-6, but faction missions are gone. Some scenarios would last as long as 8 hours and still do.
The We Be Goblins modules are supposed to be shorter 4 hour sessions. Possibly less if the players take weird shortcuts like yours tried to, and you're right, there's no good rules about how to deal with burning it all down. You'll get some players who want to play that all out, and will feel robbed if they don't get to; you'll get some players who want the game over quickly and are happy for you to storyboard it and say it's all over, going down in flames on top of them and it's done.
Just from the way you've described it, it sounds like the player's expectations need to be set in terms of how long you think it'll take. I had a player the other day tell me scenarios should only run 4 hours and that was all he allocated - that really isn't enough time, and it's unfair to the other players if you're made to unreasonably rush.
Basically:
- Keep players on their toes, if they get distracted with chatter that isn't about the game - prompt them. A minute matters - they add up.
- If a player sounds like they've walked away from the mic on their turn, don't give them more than 30 seconds - delay them. If it's a critical turn to the combat, let the other players decide what he should do, or if that's not possible, decide what he'd most likely do yourself. Better to delay if the other players can probably make do without that person taking their turn.
- If part of a combat can be skipped, it might be worth it to do so. Sometimes offer to skip the rest of it at the cost of a few charges of cure to compensate. Again, avoid this unless it feels like the players kind of want it knowing they'll beat it quickly anyway without much hassle. For bigger fights where someone might go down or take a nasty condition, you should play it out where possible.
- Back to the first point, sometimes scenarios will have players discussing strategy or roleplay. This is great - essential to the game - but even it should have a limit. There comes a point where the players have to make a decision, and as the GM, you need to enforce that decision. The party is expected to cooperate, and hopefully you don't get into a situation where some of the party is stubborn enough not to go with the majority. Gentle nudging can work wonders.
- Add "I need your decision", "What do you do", "How do you proceed" to your repertoire.