Are balance issues more likely to be addressed if they are martial in nature?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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As the tittle say.

Are the balance issue more likely to be FAQUED/ERRATED if they are options from martial than if they are option from casters?

The errata war It is a real thing or it just a coincidence?


I don't know. You could go to the FAQs and count them yourself. But then again, you won't have a window into the number of unanswered questions since anything short of actually examining the data would be a bit iffy. Posting a question like that here is only going to get you biased opinions and inaccurate assumptions by people who think "well, my question about X was/was not answered, so the DEVs must answer/ignore all questions about X".

I can make an assumption though. Martial questions tend to be focused on shared core rule systems. Can I trip someone who is prone? That can come from someone asking about Greater Trip, or someone who is wondering if they can trip a snake, or someone wondering if they can trip off the AOO of someone standing up. All those questions are about one issue and have a common theme that needs to be answered in order to mark several questions closed. It also can be asked by many different classes and levels.

A question like "how does frost tomb hex work" is very specific. It is a question about one spell used by some members of one class that are high enough to access it. A wizard doesn't ask about hexes. Even a low level witch may not ask about it.

Of course, there are rules about martial characters that are equally specific. Monks, flurry of blows, and multiple weapons for example. Stealth is a good example of a middle ground; not as many people use it as tripping, but far more than Ice Tomb. The monk question was around for awhile and the stealth question is still outstanding.

So the number of people affected by the question about a specific spell is far smaller, as a percentage of players who ask questions and read FAQs, than the ones who ask about the martial rules system.

I'd say it is a perception issue. The Devs post one answer that addresses five questions and people seem to think that counts as five answers and has a wider applicability area. When the Devs post one answer that addresses a single question, it is also noticed by far fewer players.

I can say from experience as a GM. I care about the FAQs to trip and stealth but I don't care about the ones for a witch. I have no witches in my party, I have never used one with Ice Tomb. I have players and used monsters that trip, however.


MurphysParadox wrote:

I can make an assumption though. Martial questions tend to be focused on shared core rule systems. Can I trip someone who is prone? That can come from someone asking about Greater Trip, or someone who is wondering if they can trip a snake, or someone wondering if they can trip off the AOO of someone standing up. All those questions are about one issue and have a common theme that needs to be answered in order to mark several questions closed. It also can be asked by many different classes and levels.

A question like "how does frost tomb hex work" is very specific. It is a question about one spell used by some members of one class that are high enough to access it. A wizard doesn't ask about hexes. Even a low level witch may not ask about it.

This make some sense.


MurphysParadox wrote:


I can make an assumption though. Martial questions tend to be focused on shared core rule systems. Can I trip someone who is prone?
A question like "how does frost tomb hex work" is very specific. It is a question about one spell used by some members of one class that are high enough to access it. A wizard doesn't ask about hexes. Even a low level witch may not ask about it.

So the number of people affected by the question about a specific spell is far smaller, as a percentage of players who ask questions and read FAQs, than the ones who ask about the martial rules system.

I'd say it is a perception issue. The Devs post one answer that addresses five questions and people seem to think that counts as five answers and has a wider applicability area. When the Devs post one answer that addresses a single question, it is also noticed by far fewer...

Right, I have two Rules Questions about very specific spells and how they are said to be abused.

I don;t think these issues come up IRL gaming much at all, mostly here on the boards in theorycrafting.

OTOH, Crane Wing was breaking some lower level PFS games.

Mind you, I think the "fix" there could have been limited to PFS only.


Oh Caster/Martial disparity thread


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Beating A Dead Horse wrote:
Oh Caster/Martial disparity thread

I'd try to beat you but my preferred method of doing so would probably be nerf'd.


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chaoseffect wrote:
Beating A Dead Horse wrote:
Oh Caster/Martial disparity thread
I'd try to beat you but my preferred method of doing so would probably be nerf'd.

Unless that method happens to be a swift-action no-save no-SR spell.

Then it'll be just fine. Might even get some nasty metamagic feats to boost it.


What are you implying, nicos?


chaoseffect wrote:
Beating A Dead Horse wrote:
Oh Caster/Martial disparity thread
I'd try to beat you but my preferred method of doing so would probably be nerf'd.

C'mon man It's so easy just make a knowledge check


Lemmy wrote:


Unless that method happens to be a swift-action no-save no-SR spell.

Then it'll be just fine. Might even get some nasty metamagic feats to boost it.

*Sees big bad caster, runs for life*


Only asking what the tittle say cheapy. Murphysparadox give a good reason why a general martial problem could be handled quicker than and really specific caster issue.

But still, I do not think that crane wings is more specific or power creep than, lets say, teleport subschool or more prolbematics things like simulacrum.


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Cheapy wrote:
What are you implying, nicos?

There's nothing to imply.

You said it yourself in the crane stance said "Martials can have nice things, as long as they aren't imbalanced things".

Casters don't need to worry about rules like that.


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I think that there is a lot of equal time given to casters and non-casters when it comes to the errata and FAQ. I think that one of the reasons why we might see bigger changes to the non-casters is because the effect on game play is bigger if they can't function as well. Crane wing, flurry of blows, multiple weapon attacks, etc. all affect more than a single class (except flurry but it affected an entire class from level 1 to 20). If there is a spell or spell-like ability that is selected by the player and the GM doesn't know how to handle it, then it's much easier to say, "ice tomb hex" or "simulacrum" aren't available options. Losing those doesn't disrupt the character so much. They can just pick a different option.


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The answer is no.

Balance issues are almost never addressed, martial or otherwise. Most martial items which were nerfed were legitimately viable (in some cases underpowered or overpriced) but were nerfed anyway to suit a certain aesthetic.

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