Well, nothing in the Sacred Weapon ability prevents it. So you could spam Ray of Frost for higher damage. I'm not sure about the ability to enhacne your weapon, though; it says that the enhancement stops when the weapon "leaves the Warpriest's possession". Is it meant to be useless for thrown weapons? I don't think so, so it should probably be fine with rays, too.
So, how do we make this useful? A dip in Magus, to spam Ray of Frost while wielding a Whip? How do we get more attacks per round? Obviously, you should build a Lantern Archon Warpriest.
I don't have the rules right here, but I believe it either mentions melee weapon or that the sacred weapon bonus disappears when the weapon leaves your hand (which was what brought up questions of thrown weapons and bows).
I don't have the rules right here, but I believe it either mentions melee weapon or that the sacred weapon bonus disappears when the weapon leaves your hand (which was what brought up questions of thrown weapons and bows).
The effect ends when the weapon leaves your possession. Yes RAW that means is doesn't work on thrown weapon. I'm not sure that was the intend and it might see some change in the final version but the playtest version would not work with anything that leaves your hand/eg your possession before dealing damage.
Furthermore, the most you get out of it is a replacement to the ray's normal damage. So either you're not building caster level up so you don't get very many rays per day or you are a class that is building up caster level and your rays will have better damage anyway.
Unless you are a lantern archon. Then you're set, heh. Those mobile laser platforms absolutely trounced the golems I threw at my players in the 5-8 level range. They are some mean sons of... uh... do they even have mothers? Do they come from hound archons? Because if so, then I could probably finish that saying... Or maybe I shouldn't and instead should just end this post.
Grapple isn't a weapon and you can't weapon focus (grapple).
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Grapple isn't a weapon and you can't weapon focus (grapple).
Have you read the Weapon Focus feat?
See here.
I stand corrected, however grapple doesn't do any damage so there is no gain from sacred weapon.
AFAICT, the damage replacement works for any ray, even one that doesn't otherwise do damage. That seems unreasonable.
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I stand corrected, however grapple doesn't do any damage so there is no gain from sacred weapon.You do not seem to know how grapple works either.
@BBT, that isn't helpful.
What BBT is referring to is the automatic unarmed strike damage you can do with a successful grapple. In that case, I would think that the Warpriest's ability would apply. However, I would think you could instead just do Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) instead of Weapon Focus (grapple) and get more benefit.
If this wasn't caught in playtest it should probably be FAQ'ed now so they can catch it before it gets into print. Adding in to the Sacred Weapon text like "A sacred weapon is any manufactured weapon, unarmed strike, or natural weapon in which the Warpriest has Weapon Focus" would be a good idea.
Grapple doesn't do damage. Grapple lets you, as one option upon a successful grapple maintenance roll, do damage with a one handed melee weapon or natural attack you have without having to roll to hit. Weapon focus (grapple) would just give you a +1 on grapple checks.
I think we can all agree on the intent here; it is weapon focus (weapon). It is called Sacred Weapon and the rule throws the word weapon around left and right. You also cannot imbue weapon enchantments on rays.
Can it technically work with a ray as currently written? Probably. Is it intended to? Unlikely. Again, I don't have the rules in front of me but I think RAI is clear.
I don't see why it needs to be caught. It's not going to break anything.
Granted that they'd have to cross-class to get it, but Ray of Frost is a level 0 ray. A Warpriest with Weapon Focus (Ray) would (by the current wording of the class ability) then have an unlimited ranged touch attack that dealt scaling damage (up to 2d8 at max level) that he could enhance with any of his sacred weapon abilities. Since it has the Cold descriptor, he could Rime it (at no level increase, with the proper traits). A couple of rods of Quicken metamagic and now the Warpriest can pop off a swift Ray of Frost dealing sacred weapon damage and then take his full attack with a different melee sacred weapon.
I can't understand how it could possibly do damage on its own. I guess it provides +1 damage to the free damage, but so would weapon spec in that specific weapon. Seems kind of silly is all.
I can't understand how it could possibly do damage on its own. I guess it provides +1 damage to the free damage, but so would weapon spec in that specific weapon. Seems kind of silly is all.
Not sure what you mean. By RAW, you can take Weapon Focus (Grapple). A Warpriest who takes Weapon Focus in a weapon - again by RAW - can make it a sacred weapon, meaning that it deals scaling damage. Even if it's a dagger, you still do whatever damage your sacred weapon does for the level; hypothetically if you had a weapon that dealt 0 damage but was still a weapon, you could take Weapon Focus in it as a Warpriest and deal sacred weapon damage with it.
There ya go.
True, but how many zero-level spells a day can a warpriest cast?
Meh, I don't think it's hard to find these exploits in a playtest class that hasn't been officially published. The ray thing is clearly unintended, and will likely not make it to publication. In fact, it's very likely that a playtest participant gave feedback about this loophole. That's one of the reasons for playtesting, and also a good cause for many GMs to not allow playtest classes until official release.
I'm pretty sure Warpriests can hold their own without blatantly ignoring RAI on this class feature.
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I don't see why a ray being a sacred weapon is an issue. Best case, you have a higher die roll on a cantrip. This would be a concern if the warpriest was able to stack other damage bonuses on the ray. The best ray builds I have been able seen are still along the lines of expected damage from a similar level fighter (at best) and typically require using non-cantrip spells to be comparable. These builds require levels in casting classes and prestige classes to get the bonus dmg. Thus the warpriest levels get slacked off and the sacred weapon damage boost makes little difference if any. The spell must have a die less than the warpriest sacred weapon die to get any benefit. There are very few ray spells which benefit would from this ability, and those that do are going to fall short on damage comparably without picking up other damage bonuses.
A 20th level warpriest choosing to cast a 2d8 dmg cantrip is not really a concern. Similarly, a 1st level warpriest choosing to cast a 1d6 dmg cantrip is not an issue.
I don't see why a ray being a sacred weapon is an issue.
My only issue with it, as with other ranged sacred weapons is that the wording of the current ability states that it doesn't work. Because if you loose possession of the weapon (the moment you launch it) the bonus damage and BAB increase vanish.
Apart from that I have real problem with that. The shuriken, on the other hand, looks broken because you can throw several of those per turn.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sacred Weapon only apply if the weapon in question is your deity's favored weapon?
Ray: Its nice if you dip into wizard and spam Ray of Frost, I guess. This don't seem any crazier than if you worshipped a deity whose favored weapon is a firearm.
Grapple: I understand that you can do it. But why not take unarmed strike instead? You can deal unarmed strike damage with a successful grapple check, so by choosing unarmed instead of grapple, you can theoretically get more mileage out of Sacred Weapon. And again, wouldn't you need to find a deity with favored weapon: grapple?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sacred Weapon only apply if the weapon in question is your deity's favored weapon?
That was the first version. In the updated playtest document any weapon you have weapon focus in works as long as it's in your possession.
True, but how many zero-level spells a day can a warpriest cast?Unlimited.
Like all classes that cast Cantrips and Orisirons.
Minor quibble, "Like all classes that have the Cantrips or Orisons class feature." Adept gets 0-level spells but cannot cast them at-will.
I don't see why a ray being a sacred weapon is an issue.My only issue with it, as with other ranged sacred weapons is that the wording of the current ability states that it doesn't work. Because if you loose possession of the weapon (the moment you launch it) the bonus damage and BAB increase vanish.
Apart from that I have real problem with that. The shuriken, on the other hand, looks broken because you can throw several of those per turn.
...tell me people are not seriously interpreting the text that way. Is it not obvious that that sentence refers to the enhancement bonus?
I have seriously interpreted it that way. But it might be as you say that it is only about the enhancement part. Let's hope it is worded more clearly in the final version.
And at least I hope it will not work with shuriken because it is way too strong with them, at least in my subjective view.
So I have to reverse my position on this being overpowered. I don't think it's the intent of Sacred Weapon to function with rays, but I also don't believe that it would be terribly overpowered - or at least, no more overpowered than having a gun as a sacred weapon.
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I have seriously interpreted it that way. But it might be as you say that it is only about the enhancement part. Let's hope it is worded more clearly in the final version.
And at least I hope it will not work with shuriken because it is way too strong with them, at least in my subjective view.
im sorry but it would be really nice to actually have a thrown weapon build thats actually worth a damn for once in pathfinder. as it stands anything thrown is a nerf dart past level 5.
im sorry but it would be really nice to actually have a thrown weapon build thats actually worth a damn for once in pathfinder. as it stands anything thrown is a nerf dart past level 5.I have seriously interpreted it that way. But it might be as you say that it is only about the enhancement part. Let's hope it is worded more clearly in the final version.
And at least I hope it will not work with shuriken because it is way too strong with them, at least in my subjective view.
I would not mind it working with other thrown weapons. But the change in power with the shuriken would be too big and there are too many special abilities for shuriken to consider.
Actually, shuriken can be used in conjunction with TWF and Rapid Shot, so you should be able to get up to 9 attacks a round with Haste. Granted, that's only going to happen if you build for it, but if you're building a thrown weapon character, you probably already are.
Actually, shuriken can be used in conjunction with TWF and Rapid Shot, so you should be able to get up to 9 attacks a round with Haste. Granted, that's only going to happen if you build for it, but if you're building a thrown weapon character, you probably already are.I get where you are coming from now. That's the potential for all thrown weapons though (Quick Draw).
Have you built this out? The DEX score required is going to sacrifice enough stats to greatly diminish the returns?
It's one of those niche things. It may or may not work depending on the campaign and stuff. With TWF and Rapid Shot you need a Dex of 15 (not all that hard to pull off) and you can focus on strength for damage. Once you get a Belt of Hurling, you can focus on Strength even more for accuracy. If you just want to equal the number of projectiles that an archer can fire, all you need is TWF and Rapid Shot. Imp. TWf and Grtr. TWF are just gravy that you may be able to qualify for if you get a +6 Dex item and start with a Dex of 13; it depends on if your GM lets you add the Dex to the Belt of Hurling.
The problem with shuriken is the same problem any thrown weapon build has: magical weapons. Especially since shuriken are treated like ammunition when used (50% chance to be destroyed or lost). Granted, you can use things like Abundant Ammunition and Greater Magical Weapon to mitigate this to some extent, but it's not perfect. Throwing Daggers or Axes got a big boost via the Blinkback Belt, but that doesn't really help with shuriken because there is still that 50% rider.
