Player not feeling heard


Advice


So I am a somewhat new GM to table games. I've run many games on play by post so I wouldn't say I'm a new GM. Anyway last weekend my fiancee who's new to Pathfinder came up to me almost in tears after our latest session of ROTRL and said she was thinking about quitting because she doesn't feel the group listens to her input. Its very hard for her to open up to new social situtations but she's been with this group for over a year now and she's trying to roleplay more but she's right, they don't listen to her input at all. The rest of the group is made up of 3 veterin players and 2 newer players but the group seems to listen to the others more than her. Whats a good way to bring this up with the group where she won't feel embarassed? Has anyone else had new players be shy in there groups and how did you encourge the group to help them find their voice?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is she the only female?

Tell her to lay her concerns straight out. If they ridicule her, tell her that they are only showing themselves to be jerks, and that she should find a group over the mental age of eight.


No there is another new female to RPG's there as well but she doesn't have the same issue.


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Maybe stop the game and give everyone a turn to speak their case before an important decision is made in party.

"Ok everyone, let's go around the table and hear what everyone thinks. Let's start with X."


Have you asked the other players what they think yet? Social things can be pretty complicated.


Thanks those are good points. I told her she didn't have to play anymore if she didn't want to because as upset as she was I didn't see much point in making her go back next session. I think I might start pausing the game and starting asking her what she things the party should do and then going around the table and getting a majority consensis. At least that way she feels somewhat heard even if her opinion isn't the majority.


MrSin wrote:
Have you asked the other players what they think yet? Social things can be pretty complicated.

Not yet...not really sure how to breach it with them.


Not heard as in she is being ignored, or not heard as in the group doesn't use her suggestion? Does she have good ideas? Would you use her ideas if you were playing?

I've been at tables where some people just have bad ideas. If I'm new to the game or it isn't a long term thing I will roll with the punches and go with whatever, but in a long term game with some decent character investment I'm a lot less likely to endorse a bad idea.


She has good ideas she just can't get a word in edge wise with all the other chatter between the group. I think part of the issue is they only look to her when there is something to be killed and otherwise assume she has nothing to contribute so kind of cut her out of the rest of the gameplay because thats how she played early on. They don't realize she's trying to grow as a player.


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BigDTBone wrote:
I've been at tables where some people just have bad ideas. If I'm new to the game or it isn't a long term thing I will roll with the punches and go with whatever, but in a long term game with some decent character investment I'm a lot less likely to endorse a bad idea.

Even sometimes good ideas get flat out ignored at some of the tables I've been at. Sometimes its that Jeff, Joe, and Jane have been friends for a while because they think a like and they tend to listen to each other and think similarly. That's why their friends after all. So when Sarah comes along it may not be that her ideas are bad, they might be absolutely perfect! But they aren't what Jeff and friends would do.


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The other new players may be going with the veteran players since they know the game more. I know when I started out, I wouldn't do a whole lot outside of the comfort zone when other experienced players were around, because they probably knew how to keep me and themselves alive longer than I would.

I doubt it's resentment that she's your girlfriend as from what you've said there isn't any favoritism. So that not being the case we move on.

Another thing to consider is that some people are just naturally more boisterous. These types can tend to drown others ideas out and therefore get their way more often then not. If that's the case, I too would suggest the game pause. Just make sure you don't start with your girlfriend. Let another new player go, then a veteran, you girl, etc... Starting with her may embarrass her as well as the sudden use of game pause and her being the first would make it sort of obvious.

So suggested routes: (Shots in the dark mind you)

- Game Pause as suggested above, perhaps with the caveat I add in.

- If your girlfriend's character has a knowledge or skill that only she has, maybe occasionally toss in a part in the game where her expertise would be extremely useful.

- Suggest that her idea might actually be a good one through an NPC.

- Split the group in-game so the vets and the new players (girlfriend included) are in two different parties and see how they make their decisions then.

- Straight up secretly talk to some of the vet players and see what's up.

- If she has bad ideas... talk to her about that somehow...

Anyways. Good luck.


Third Mind wrote:

Another thing to consider is that some people are just naturally more boisterous. These types can tend to drown others ideas out and therefore get their way more often then not. If that's the case, I too would suggest the game pause. Just make sure you don't start with your girlfriend. Let another new player go, then a veteran, you girl, etc... Starting with her may embarrass her as well as the sudden use of game pause and her being the first would make it sort of obvious.

I think this is the main problem. Our summoner is very very boisterous and also kind of directs where the game goes most of the time and being that he is one of the vets most of the party goes with what he says. I think the game pause solution will help with this emensly.

I thank you for pointing out that starting with her might be ovious. I think I would start with some of the other players(not the summoner) and the work around from vet to newb to vet again. Very good advice.


If your girlfriend is feeling like she's only spoken to when something needs killing, you could try to work that into the story. I doubt they'd be that way to the player and not to the character as well, so you can fit that in. Perhaps have the party wake up one morning with her missing and a ransom note from a random baddie. The party, perhaps not wanting to lose the killing or something, goes after her. Then hit them with a whammy - the bad guy gets lost or something and her character has an idea to bail them out of that. So the bad guy in this instance appreciates the efforts more noticeably than the party would.

You could have this kind of situation play out a couple ways. Either they roleplay in a way where your girlfriend is able to get her input better, or they may end up leaving her and take the bad guy as a hireling or something. I never said the idea was foolproof. There's also the possibility of them finally listening to her input and you guys get a hireling.

Honestly though, you should have an open feedback session with your group. Flat out tell them that you want everyone's input on the game. Get any other grievances out in the open, discuss them intelligently, and try to resolve any issues you may not have been aware of. It is something simple, and you don't need to hide why you are asking them. Tell them that her concern got you thinking, even asking if there's other party dynamic issues you aren't aware of yet. The trick I listed above should probably only be used if nobody takes away anything from a feedback session.

Sczarni

Hey mathpro18,

I am probably not best advice here, but here is few thoughts. People sometimes aren't aware of other people's feelings. The best way for them to listen to her input isn't anything else, but to simply tell them. Sometimes as a GM, you have to intervene against other players. I had recently a situation where players kept imposing their own opinions in a way to other players, so at the end I politely reminded everyone about several things, not aiming at anyone specifically.

She shouldn't feel embarassed for voicing her opinion. This is a good way to also break shy person in her and step in. Sometimes you have to be selfish person. It's okay to be selfish here and there.

Malag

Grand Lodge

I may be totally wrong here, but, I feel I should ask.

Are any of your other players "inexperienced" with talking with members of the opposite sex?

I remember we had player's fiancee play in a group with a number of teenage to young 20's males, who really were not used to talking to females, in such a intimate social setting. Many were uncomfortable, but ashamed to admit it. The fact that she was quite attractive added to this discomfort for them.

Most just focused on interacting with other players, and whilst not exactly going out of their way to do so, ignored her.

Do you think this may be part of the issue?

Scarab Sages

Six is a large table, and what you're describing happens more than you might think. One thing that works for me when I noticed that quieter people are getting left out of participating is just saying "you're not in combat, but there's a lot going on, let's roll initiative so you can act on turns so that I can keep track of who's doing what."

That takes in burden off the quiet players, doesn't confront the more boisterous ones as doing something wrong, but tends to get everyone involved.


I don't think so since most of my players are in their 30's and most are married.


Duiker wrote:

Six is a large table, and what you're describing happens more than you might think. One thing that works for me when I noticed that quieter people are getting left out of participating is just saying "you're not in combat, but there's a lot going on, let's roll initiative so you can act on turns so that I can keep track of who's doing what."

That takes in burden off the quiet players, doesn't confront the more boisterous ones as doing something wrong, but tends to get everyone involved.

Hmm this is a really good suggestion as well. And I think it might help kind of underplay the real issue...I like it.

Shadow Lodge

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Play with a smaller group.

This is a symptom of a large table. It only takes 1 or 2, very maybe 3 outspoken players to overwhelm the quieter ones.


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My wife is a quiet-voiced person in a group of fairly loud people. In more recent games, she has had more difficulty being heard. This comes after many years where she typically played the character in-charge (she tends to play paladins and similar types, and with some of the more "naughty" players we've had in the game, I needed her to help keep things on the straight-and-narrow). So I think this is doubly as hard for her.

One thing that complicated the issue was that a friend of ours, who helped her keep the peace, moved to another state. The two of them worked well together, and we all miss the dynamic.

Now she has to compete harder in a situation with more opinionated people with slightly more ego than some of our past players. She often offers good ideas, only to be drowned out and to have other players later offer the same ideas. Very frustrating for her.

Here's what I do.

Firstly, I have never been shy about having "those talks" before sessions with the whole group. Without pointing fingers or singling anybody out, I let everybody know when people feel they are not being heard. I remind everybody to try to be a bit more orderly so everybody can be heard. It's not a big deal. Everybody understands this is a game wherein we all need to have fun. Sometimes they just need to be reminded to be a bit more courteous to one-another.

Secondly, during the game I keep my ears open to everybody. I make sure to listen to what everybody is saying, and when I hear somebody say something interesting, I ask everyone to settle down and let that person speak. That way, it's clear who came up with what idea (this can be important because people like to feel like they are contributing and they want others to know they are, too). I also am not afraid to sum up the conversation by going around the table and reiterating what everybody has said. When someone is drowned out, I even repeat what they have said to the others.

Being a GM sometimes goes beyond navigating rules and settling in-game issues and arguments around the table, into the realm of a sort of mediating group therapist. You have to be brave to be a GM. You have to be confident.

Get into the mix. Talk these things out. Stay positive and mediate. It'll be fine.


mathpro18 wrote:
She has good ideas she just can't get a word in edge wise with all the other chatter between the group. I think part of the issue is they only look to her when there is something to be killed and otherwise assume she has nothing to contribute so kind of cut her out of the rest of the gameplay because thats how she played early on. They don't realize she's trying to grow as a player.

Then I think you are on the right track with asking each player directly for suggestions and then comming to consensus. Not for every little thing but at least 3-4 times a session. Also, alternate who you start with.

You also might work out a covert signal that she can use when she feels her input warrants more consideration (this could also be an extremely bad idea, clearly use at your own discretion.)


When not in combat and when you notice many people wanting to talk about a game issue (and you notice that your fiancee wants to speak and is getting drowned out) make everyone role a social initiative. This is for the players, not their characters, so no need to add char bonus. Then let everyone speak in turn.

Tell them this is to help you keep things organized and help you be a better DM.


mathpro18 wrote:
So I am a somewhat new GM to table games. I've run many games on play by post so I wouldn't say I'm a new GM. Anyway last weekend my fiancee who's new to Pathfinder came up to me almost in tears after our latest session of ROTRL and said she was thinking about quitting because she doesn't feel the group listens to her input. Its very hard for her to open up to new social situtations but she's been with this group for over a year now and she's trying to roleplay more but she's right, they don't listen to her input at all. The rest of the group is made up of 3 veterin players and 2 newer players but the group seems to listen to the others more than her. Whats a good way to bring this up with the group where she won't feel embarassed? Has anyone else had new players be shy in there groups and how did you encourge the group to help them find their voice?

I have a big question;

Are you me?

You described the exact situation I've had more than once.


I second the smaller group.

If she has a history of difficulty in social situations, I hope she keeps at it. RP is actually a really good way to learn those skills like turn-taking and compromise — and how to contribute more if you're a little bit shy by nature.

But, in general, I have a hard time with more than four players and a GM. Someone is bound to get lost in the background at that point, and the best you can hope for is a rotating emphasis (like a long running TV series) where one player gets his moment now and then.

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