So I've been dinking around with classless systems, where skills and feats are bought a-la-carte, and I came up with an idea that I'm sure has been done somewhere else: Occupations.
Basically, you pick from 9 broad occupations, that determine various crap at the start of the game (the amount of skill points you have in a given area, feats, starting gear, starting gold). After that you narrow it down to what exactly you do in your occupation (You're not just a Craftsman, but a Blacksmith), and you have a nice and neat package of feats, skills, gear, and gold to start the game with.
The 9 Occupations are:
Lawman
Military
Clergy
Craftsman
Hermit
Alumni
Outlaw
Elite
Entertainer
The appeal, to me at least, is that none are strictly related to any single class- Military could mean anything from Chaplain to Sniper to Battle Mage. Instead, they offer various degrees of broadness and specializations, a neat way to determine starting gear and gold, and great for role play.
This idea is still in the womb, so I haven't really fleshed out the stats, just general ideas of what occupation should have more of this or that than the other, which is why I was hoping to get some feedback or ideas from you guys. Tell me what ya think! :D
I was also considering Athlete as a tenth occupation, but that could fit under Entertainer. Thoughts?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was also considering Athlete as a tenth occupation, but that could fit under Entertainer. Thoughts?
That depends on whether you'd consider a gladiator an entertainer or an athlete. They were both, but the two terms are probably broad enough for there to be some differences. Comedians probably aren't as physically active as Olympic swimmers, for example.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, it seems like you've failed at your own goal. You're attempting to design a classless system, and instead you're using occupations, which is really just a broader sense of a class.
If you really want a classless system, then go totally classless. Let the players create their characters by purchasing whatever abilities, and then let them decide what their occupation was/is.
If you want to tie certain abilities together so that it is easier to focus on certain aspects, it can be done with packages of abilities instead of occupations.
Honestly, it seems like you've failed at your own goal. You're attempting to design a classless system, and instead you're using occupations, which is really just a broader sense of a class.
If you really want a classless system, then go totally classless. Let the players create their characters by purchasing whatever abilities, and then let them decide what their occupation was/is.
If you want to tie certain abilities together so that it is easier to focus on certain aspects, it can be done with packages of abilities instead of occupations.
Really good points. Ideally, though, these professions are meant to be no more than just packages of abilities, like you said. The key difference between the jobs and classes is that the occupations don't level up with you. And theres nothing saying you can't implement a skip-the-fluff system that lets you simply build a jobless character. :D
Really good points. Ideally, though, these professions are meant to be no more than just packages of abilities, like you said.
Perhaps, but packaging abilities with occupations is going to bring a lot of baggage with it. Much like now if I select a barbarian, there are certain RP aspects that come along with being a barbarian. I need to look at the campaign world, see where the barbarian tribes roam, and then figure out which my character came from.
While some people "skip the fluff", that won't be acceptable to players used to older editions, who feel the fluff is important.
So when I suggest packaging abilities, I'm thinking more along the lines of:
Light combat training - prof. in light armor, Weapon Finesse feat, Dodge feat
There's no real baggage that comes along with this - there are many different ways to learn such a package.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Really good points. Ideally, though, these professions are meant to be no more than just packages of abilities, like you said. The key difference between the jobs and classes is that the occupations don't level up with you. And theres nothing saying you can't implement a skip-the-fluff system that lets you simply build a jobless character. :D
My advice would be to start with a skip the fluff system, then make packages which work well and call them jobs. Sort of like the elder scrolls games before skyrim, where it was a classless system that had premade packages it called classes.
My other point is that choices are very important to me as a player. If I were to play a game that utilized a system like this, I would like it a lot more if it left me lot's of options. Are my feats and skills selected for me, or are they just limited to a set number of options. Is my starting gear set in stone or is it just a suggestion?
In my opinion, the packages should leave lots of room for individuality and expansion. Perhaps even room for things outside the scope of the job (I was a blacksmith, but I picked up a bit of magic from my business partner, a master enchanter).
I like that idea a lot. Ill have to try that. :D
Sounds similar to an old RPG now out of print called DragonQuest. You can find a small online following and the rulebook at
http://dragonquestfrontiers.com/files/DQ2BantamComplete.pdf
Occupation instead of classes...
In the end it is really arguing over semantics I think.
One thing to watch out for, is the more flexible you make choices, the more restricted those choices have to be in and of themselves.
What I mean is, that the more flexible a character's options are, the easier it is to simply take them ost powerful of those options and leave out the less powerful ones.
So assuming each occupation can choose abilities from relavant classes, you need to be very very careful. For instance you would have an issue if a 'military' character had, weapon training, bonus feats, smite evil and bane all in a full base attack character. Even if thats all he had (didnt get things like bravery, track, lay on hands) it would still throw off the math of the system. Its why the summoner class can be problematic, its super easy to optimize because everything is a choice. So if you do go with broad generalizations, you need to be very careful about how you allow character options to be chosen.
In saga edition as an example, it had sort of what you are looking at. There were just a handful of 'classes' that determined very litttle except slightly narrowing down your pool of options for talents and feats, which you chose from at every level. It ended up being where every option was sort of luke warm until you built it up in its tree to prevent dipping (taking the first talent in every tree), but it meant characters took longer to get going. Where as with a hard class system, early abilities can be a little bit better, because characters cant just keep taking those first level abilities over and over without multiclassing (which carries its own penalties).
There was a game called Twilight 2000 that had a similar occupational backdrop,that you had to roll for.It was to represent where a person came from and what they were doing b4 joining the military.
It was pretty cool,providing flavor and individuality and a few unique skills.
I think you should make it a random roll,otherwise people will just optimize.
You could end up with a blacksmiths son who dreamed of being a wizard instead of a fighter/knight.
Or a cloistered young scholar you decides to embark on a life of crime.
Randomness forces variety.
