Eh, I thought Legolas only slightly less cool than Tauriel. Who is the best argument for "Elves really are cool" since forever.If only her sole motivation for abandoning Everything had been a little deeper than "that dwarf I met for five minutes who looked suspiciously human was kinda hot." I'm all for adding a cool Action Girl to the cast, but they could have put some effort into making her a little less shallow. Tauriel has the personality (and effect on orcs) of a lawnmower.
I guess you did miss the important bit about her wanting to destroy the orc warband led by Bolg. Yeah, I'm sure that wanting to help Kili was an underlying motivation, but there's no reason to not take her at her word for wanting to stop the spreading darkness, which for example Thranduil was ignoring.
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I felt like the "ooh, that dwarf is kind of hot" aspect was just another nail in Tauriel's "abandon the elf kingdom" coffin; she represented a desire to do the right thing, despite the King and his rules. She was what CG is supposed to look like.
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I actually wish they let the eagles talk. In the book, it was established that the eagles were paying back a favor, and didn't want to get much closer to the Lonely Mountain because the realms of men are not friendly to the eagles. We don't get any of that, which leads a non-book reader to question why they just couldn't get flown all the way to Erebor, and again they feel just like Gandalf's deux ex machina taxi service
Well I am waiting to see Gandalf riding on the eagles to the battle of 5 armies and with him he has a bear bomb (Beorn aka The Bolg Buster) he is going to drop on the goblins.
I guess you did miss the important bit about her wanting to destroy the orc warband led by Bolg. Yeah, I'm sure that wanting to help Kili was an underlying motivation, but there's no reason to not take her at her word for wanting to stop the spreading darkness, which for example Thranduil was ignoring.
And which would (we are randomly emphasising words, right?) be a perfectly valid excuse in and of itself. I mean, that's why Legolas leaves. To stop the spreading darkness (and because his not-girlfriend is kinda hot, I guess).
Point is, you didn't really need to throw in the really-bad romance to give her a good reason to leave. The good reason to leave and be a cool Action Girl was already there. Throwing in a Bad Romance just cheapened it. In my opinion.
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I don't know. It seems to me that the romance itself cannot be cavalierly dismissed as "bad," in that Tauriel's attraction to Kili flies in the face of what would be best for her.
Well, I'm not really objecting to the idea of a elf/dwarf romance. I just don't think the movie managed to tell that story convincingly, and I don't think it was a necessary plot element. Maybe Peter Jackson has something amazing in store for Episode 3, but for Episode 2, it just felt like padding (and an excuse to remake a scene from LotR, for some reason).
I get, and support, that they wanted to add Tauriel so that the Hobbit isn't a total sausagefest. Doing so, and then make her primary motivator some guy she spoke to for five minutes does the original idea a huge disservice. Imho.
Part of the problem is Jackson's apparent phobic-level fear of showing any kind of time passing. In the book the dwarves were in the elf prison for some time before Bilbo learned enough about how the elves ran things and got a chance to get them out. This would have been a great place to do that to show the relationship developing.
I guess you did miss the important bit about her wanting to destroy the orc warband led by Bolg. Yeah, I'm sure that wanting to help Kili was an underlying motivation, but there's no reason to not take her at her word for wanting to stop the spreading darkness, which for example Thranduil was ignoring.And which would (we are randomly emphasising words, right?) be a perfectly valid excuse in and of itself. I mean, that's why Legolas leaves. To stop the spreading darkness (and because his not-girlfriend is kinda hot, I guess).
Point is, you didn't really need to throw in the really-bad romance to give her a good reason to leave. The good reason to leave and be a cool Action Girl was already there. Throwing in a Bad Romance just cheapened it. In my opinion.
Only that in your previous post you didn't make this point at all, but rather called Tauriels motivation for leaving solely being that she likes Kili. Nice try to shout "Look, a two-headed monkey!", but no dice.
Her main motivation for leaving was, as she stated to Legolas, to stop the spreading darkness of evil. Kili was just a bonus and maybe another little shove out the door.
I was amused that the extended edition did have a scene of Kili flirting with an attractive elf at Rivendell. So apparently Kili has a thing for elves
I guess you did miss the important bit about her wanting to destroy the orc warband led by Bolg. Yeah, I'm sure that wanting to help Kili was an underlying motivation, but there's no reason to not take her at her word for wanting to stop the spreading darkness, which for example Thranduil was ignoring.And which would (we are randomly emphasising words, right?) be a perfectly valid excuse in and of itself. I mean, that's why Legolas leaves. To stop the spreading darkness (and because his not-girlfriend is kinda hot, I guess).
Point is, you didn't really need to throw in the really-bad romance to give her a good reason to leave. The good reason to leave and be a cool Action Girl was already there. Throwing in a Bad Romance just cheapened it. In my opinion.
Only that in your previous post you didn't make this point at all, but rather called Tauriels motivation for leaving solely being that she likes Kili. Nice try to shout "Look, a two-headed monkey!", but no dice.
Her main motivation for leaving was, as she stated to Legolas, to stop the spreading darkness of evil. Kili was just a bonus and maybe another little shove out the door.
sorry, but not buying it. her whole motivation is because she got hots for Kili. realistic (friendship, not love) motivation would have gone a long way in making he character plausible. this way she just comes of as shallow, 'cause she fell in love with a human-like dwarf in about 5 minutes.
Actually she left because
And maybe a little, I want to kill a bunch of goblins because they dare invaded our woods.
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Eh, it could have been a more complicated thing than just A or just B.
Given that high elf-king snobby-pants was all, 'You're not good enough for my son, don't forget your place, filthy peasant,' I could see Tauriel deciding to go wandering off just to put his panties in a wad, and not just because Kili is hotter than the average dwarf.
Also, note how Legolas later accuses her of defying his dad's orders not to leave, *when she left before he gave that order.*
"King Antler-Hat says close the gates, no one enters, no one leaves."
"Uh, what about Tauriel, she went out into the woods fifteen minutes ago..."
"What! How dare she defy the order I just now relayed to you and she couldn't possibly have known about! Now I have to go defy his order, too, because two wrongs make a right! Right? Amirite?"
Two wrongs don't make a right, silly elf! Three lefts do.
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I tend to take what characters actually say is their motivation over what others feel is their "real" motivation. Tauriel said, flat-out, that she wanted to stop the spreading darkness, which by now brazenly was invading the Mirkwood. She pointed out how the spiders kept coming back to Thranduil, who gave her the cold shoulder over this.
Thranduil ignoring the ork raiding party and the plight of the dwarfes (and, yes, Kili) was the last push, but she did not leave mainly because she has the hots for Kilis stubbly chin.
Nice try to shout "Look, a two-headed monkey!", but no dice.
It was a three headed monkey.
When do the talking ravens appear? I must be getting old (been a long time). I thought the ravens were on the bad side? Of note i liked how Jackson handled the spiders talking and leaving in the butterflies was a nice touch. Do the dwarves ever get their original weapons back? If not are they mentioned again in the books
I wonder if/when Jackson pulls a Lucas and we get a revised edition of the LOTR if they replace Gimili's father with Hobbit actors and they shoot some moria scenes with the Balin actor etc?
Also if/when they do another movie based on other books how they would pull it off. I've never finished the Similarion but doesnt it cover hundreds of years ? Wouldnt mind a bridge movie between LOTR and Hobbit. Maybe a younger Aragorn Story and the Balin Moria story fleshed out. Wow the purists would just scream
No, those are crows. The dwarves met the ravens on Ravenhill after Smaug "disappeared" and used them to get news of the surrounding area and about Smaug's death and the coming of the armies of men and elves. The ravens were sent to get Dáin to bring an army of dwarves.
Other than Orcrist, the dwarves had no real weapons of note (some small knives, a couple of bows). Besides in the book they were captured twice and disarmed. First by the goblins and then by the elves (also by the trolls, but they all were killed and looted). Instead they find in the dragon horde many of the masterwork weapons of their kin and arm themselves with them. Orcrist is placed on Thorin's tomb (oops, spoiler).
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When do the talking ravens appear? I must be getting old (been a long time). I thought the ravens were on the bad side? Of note i liked how Jackson handled the spiders talking and leaving in the butterflies was a nice touch. Do the dwarves ever get their original weapons back? If not are they mentioned again in the books
In the book
I wonder if/when Jackson pulls a Lucas and we get a revised edition of the LOTR if they replace Gimili's father with Hobbit actors and they shoot some moria scenes with the Balin actor etc?
It has been hinted the end of "There and Back Again" will be about the intervening years between The Hobbit and LOTR.
Also if/when they do another movie based on other books how they would pull it off. I've never finished the Similarion but doesnt it cover hundreds of years ? Wouldnt mind a bridge movie between LOTR and Hobbit. Maybe a younger Aragorn Story and the Balin Moria story fleshed out. Wow the purists would just scream
The Silmarillian was a bunch of notes on the history of the elves published after JRR Tolkien's death by his son Christopher, who also expanded on them in Lost Tales, The Children of Huron and otherers.
He has stated that while his father sold the movie rights to The Hobbit and LOTR, he will not be doing that for anything else.
Which scene?** spoiler omitted **
Whenever I think about dragonfire I still think about the illustration of that scene in my copy of The Hobbit from childhood.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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The Hobbit movies are Peter Jackson's fanfic of the actual Hobbit.
Were they enjoyable? Sure. But they weren't really The Hobbit.
Imagine if you took Pulp Fiction, and took out all the brilliant dialogue scenes, and replaced them with wuxia action fight scenes. Jules and Vincent leaping across rooftops on wires. Mia Wallace freeze frame Trinity kicking the maitre'd at Jack Rabbit Slim's while dodging bullets. Butch punching the other guy so hard his head falls off into Marcellus Wallace's lap. Maybe that would be entertaining, but it certainly wouldn't match the spirit of the original.
And that's my problem with Jackson's Hobbit. He took out almost all of Tolkien's dialogue--truly brilliant, funny stuff--and replaced it with green screen gonzo action scenes. I can only watch elves shoot three orcs simultaneously while balancing on the head of a dwarf, in a barrel, rushing downstream through rapids, so many times before I just want to yawn. I'd much rather have seen that funny scene where all the dwarves are showing up to Beorn's door in small groups so as not to anger him. Or Beorn teasing Bilbo about the goblin head and warg skin trophies. Or the dogs on four legs serving a vegetarian supper.
I want to see how Martin Freeman does this: “It was at this point that Bilbo stopped. Going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did. The tremendous things that happened afterward were as nothing compared to it. He fought the real battle in the tunnel alone, before he ever saw the vast danger that lay in wait.” I want to hear the entirety of Smaug's magnificent boast: “Revenge!” he snorted, and the light of his eyes lit the the hall from floor to ceiling like scarlet lightning. “Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons’ sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong strong. Thief in the Shadows!” he gloated. “My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!”
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I want to see how Martin Freeman does this: “It was at this point that Bilbo stopped. Going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did. The tremendous things that happened afterward were as nothing compared to it. He fought the real battle in the tunnel alone, before he ever saw the vast danger that lay in wait.” I want to hear the entirety of Smaug's magnificent boast: “Revenge!” he snorted, and the light of his eyes lit the the hall from floor to ceiling like scarlet lightning. “Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons’ sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the...
Hopefully we will see that part of the conversation in the extended version.
Charlie Bell, you nailed it..... That is exactly what is wrong with the movie.
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a troop of orcs, led by Bolg, were quite happily wandering around a town in the middle of the night, without anyone else being around to even potentially notice them. No patrols of watchmen, no drunken revellers, no witnesses wondering what all the noise was about or trying to raise a 'help, our town is being invaded by orcs!!!!' alarm.
Impressive enough, given that the only way into and out of Lake Town was that long narrow bridge (or swimming...), which means that the entire troop of orcs apparently crossed that several hundred foot long bridge without anyone in town noticing.
But the entire orc troop managing to infiltrate the elven woods, which are so dangerous that stepping off the trail is insta-fail, and get far enough that they could watch the front gate of the paranoid and territorial Elf King's stronghold? Whatever. Go, go orc ninja.
Really, I'm most disappointed with Smaug. I get that Rumblepatch is the second coming of [insert other inexplicably popular, yet kind of ugly, actor], but he somehow managed to have less gravitas as Smaug than the dude who voice acted him in the old Hobbit cartoon... Unimpressive CGI, combined with 'eh' presence, equals a less than impressive Smaug.
I was far more impressed with the dude who played the Elf King, with the guy playing Thorin, and with Martin Freeman's Bilbo.
I was kind of hoping for more of Beorn, as well, although, since he's not really pivotal to anything, I'm glad he didn't get all Tom Bombadil'ed out of the story.
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yeah...the lake town scene bothered me as well. The orcs are just so inconsistently played in this movie. They are apparently super competent when they go against anyone who is an extra, but faced with main characters, they become the three stooges. Most of the dwarves in the movie are not veteran, skilled warriors, with the exception of Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, and maybe a few others. They shouldn't be so lucky or capable against these orcs.
yeah...the lake town scene bothered me as well. The orcs are just so inconsistently played in this movie. They are apparently super competent when they go against anyone who is an extra, but faced with main characters, they become the three stooges. Most of the dwarves in the movie are not veteran, skilled warriors, with the exception of Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, and maybe a few others. They shouldn't be so lucky or capable against these orcs.
To be fair, the competence level of the dwarves also varies wildly, see movie one. One minute they are mowing through Goblin Town like the grim reaper, the next they flee like little children from the orcs.
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I want to hear the entirety of Smaug's magnificent boast: “Revenge!” he snorted, and the light of his eyes lit the the hall from floor to ceiling like scarlet lightning. “Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons’ sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong strong. Thief in the Shadows!” he gloated. “My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!”
YES! I liked the movie but that was my biggest disappointment.
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I want to hear the entirety of Smaug's magnificent boast: “Revenge!” he snorted, and the light of his eyes lit the the hall from floor to ceiling like scarlet lightning. “Revenge! The King under the Mountain is dead and where are his kin that dare seek revenge? Girion Lord of Dale is dead, and I have eaten his people like a wolf among sheep, and where are his sons’ sons that dare approach me? I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong strong, Thief in the Shadows!” he gloated. “My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!”
I'm so sad to hear that the movie messed up this line.
Even more sad because I know that it is possible to do it terrifically. I heard Théoden's speech in the third movie, I know that some of Tolkien's great speeches can be translated to film in a spine shiveringly awesome way.
I completely turned off my Tolkien Canonical Nitpicking Program and just watched it as a different telling of the same myth (because myths and legends do change with the tellers over time). I personally had a blast with it. And as far as Tauriel goes, well, I love redheads. And I love girls with pointed ears, it seems. When the two are combined, hoo boy...
The best scene in the entire series? When Archer sticks that explosive on the reptillian's back, looks at him with hate and ducks behind a pillar. So badass.
Its actually the series I might by on DVD because I don't recall it being regularly shown as reruns and there was a lot of season 2 I missed and lots of Season 4 I want to see again.
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It's an abomination and a travesty—which is what I've come to expect from JJ Abrams, the most overrated director on Earth.
That's patently untrue. Uwe Boll's over-rating far exceeds Abrams simply by appending "Director" to his name.
That's patently untrue. Uwe Boll's over-rating far exceeds Abrams simply by appending "Director" to his name.
It's an abomination and a travesty—which is what I've come to expect from JJ Abrams, the most overrated director on Earth.
Damn right. That man is a joke.
Damn right. That man is a joke.That's patently untrue. Uwe Boll's over-rating far exceeds Abrams simply by appending "Director" to his name.
It's an abomination and a travesty—which is what I've come to expect from JJ Abrams, the most overrated director on Earth.
I stand corrected, gentlemen.
Allow me to amend my statement: "The most overrated director on Earth to whom I've been exposed."
Be thankful for not being exposed to Uwe Boll. The man somehow keeps getting the money to make movies, but keeps pumping out crap. His video game adaptations are particularly bad, and somehow keep spawning sequels. Multiple BloodRayne films (and a scene-for-scene spoof of BloodRayne: The Third Reich about an obese half vampire Nazi-hunter starring the mostly same actors as the actual film), Postal, Alone in the Dark, Far Cry (taken from a tropical island to a snow covered forest for some reason, Dungeon Siege (first one had Jason Statham, sequel had Dolph Lundgren, so I guess there are a couple of redeeming features), all pretty terrible. Then there was his "put up or shut up" campaign where he responded to criticism by boxing critics. A few of them later said that he'd told them it would just be a publicity thing and they'd all get training, which was false, as he seriously injured at least one of them. He also arranged a sparring match with Seanbaby on Attack of the Show, but bailed on it when he realised that Seanbaby is in fact in pretty good physical condition, not a tiny person, and practices jujitsu and Muay Thai.
Interestingly, apparently his film Rampage (an original film, not an adaptation) was really good, to the surprise of many critics.
To bring this back on topic though...
I personally really enjoyed the film. Yes, there are parts I would have liked to have seen be closer to the source, like Beorn, but it certainly didn't stop me from having a great time watching it. Benedict Cumberbatch was glorious as Smaug as well.